Seasonal Drift Event

[DaveM-sport]

I think you guys underestimate the importance of a good line in a drift. They don't ignore it in real life either. Your line through the corner demonstrates your control over the vehicle. It's also important on many tracks for linking corners properly, if you don't take the right line you won't have enough speed.

I do agree that the point scoring is pretty dumb, but the racing line thing is dead on. Drift lines and racing lines are almost identical.

No, they are not. Drifting lines are much wider than the racing line... Especially on long sweeping corners, you are encouraged to run as wide as possible just at the edge of the track usually almost touching a wall.


Yes, transitions are more or less the racing line but you can't really link corners any other way anyway.


Go to any drift event briefing and it's clear that the lines and scoring zones are totally different to the conventional racing line around the track that is usually displayed on a large board in the briefing room.

 

[TSLRich]

No, they are not. Drifting lines are much wider than the racing line... Especially on long sweeping corners, you are encouraged to run as wide as possible just at the edge of the track usually almost touching a wall.


Yes, transitions are more or less the racing line but you can't really link corners any other way anyway.


Go to any drift event briefing and it's clear that the lines and scoring zones are totally different to the conventional racing line around the track that is usually displayed on a large board in the briefing room.

I'd say you're both wrong.... and yes, I've sat through many a drift event briefing, I'm a professional photographer and I've shot drifting since 2004. In some cases, the line does match and in some cases it doesn't... it really depends on what the judges deem a perfect line. In this case though, we don't really no what PD has determined to be the proper line. I dl'ed stepmania's run on Tsukuba and I thought that it looked pretty legit, nothing crazy... no backwards entries and someone else said... just clean, legit, real-world, style drifting. A couple of thing's I noticed...

1st. He basically drifts the entire track... at first I thought this was the key to his scores, he was continuing to score points after the flags because he kept going, but then I realized that the points don't work that way.. it caps you when you pass the flags, so he's basically drifting the whole thing for bragging rights... props for that.

2nd. like the top 25 almost exclusively use the Buick Special? why? I mean sure, it pumps out nice HP, but nothing that special compared to any of the other high end cars... why not drift a viper? and why do they all choose it? Do you think its a case of stepmania chose it.. so others followed to try and capture the same magic? or is there some inherit advantage to this car.

3rd. I didn't pick up on the tranny thing, but it raises an interesting point... if you tighten up the ratios so much... then maybe the thing never catches traction.. part of the downside of a conventional tranny is that as you upshift, the revs fall and eventually wheel speed and vehicle speed match up and they begin to hook... but if you can tighten up the ratio so much that they never hook.

 

[Borodori]

I know getting into the top 10 is not realistic for me AND I'm not about to go buy a '62 Buick in a sad attempt to try. So with my average skill, I'm just trying to see how high I can score with some underpowered cars. So far I'm doing "alright" with my Celica and AE86.

 

[WeeblBull]

3rd. I didn't pick up on the tranny thing, but it raises an interesting point... if you tighten up the ratios so much... then maybe the thing never catches traction.. part of the downside of a conventional tranny is that as you upshift, the revs fall and eventually wheel speed and vehicle speed match up and they begin to hook... but if you can tighten up the ratio so much that they never hook.

I'm drifting with a close ratio gearbox and it doesn't seem to matter which gear I'm in as long as the wheels are spinning. You can easily shift up and down whilst holding the drift if you have a double plate clutch.

Similarly it doesn't really matter much what angle I have as long as I'm on the racing line. Taking the corners as slow as possible to maximize the score does necessitate drifting at a certain angle though. I've scored in the high 5,000's on the first corner whether I'm at 20 degrees or 50 degrees.

I have tried setting the brake bias on the front wheels only to slow myself through the corner, but that doesn't seem to work very well.

 

[TSLRich]

I know getting into the top 10 is not realistic for me AND I'm not about to go buy a '62 Buick in a sad attempt to try. So with my average skill, I'm just trying to see how high I can score with some underpowered cars. So far I'm doing "alright" with my Celica and AE86.

I won the Buick Special... but I forget where... nice run though for you. I only started drifting about 2 weeks ago and average about 7000 pt runs.. no where near competitive, but damn, I'm having so much fun.

 

[TwinturboCH]

I think you guys underestimate the importance of a good line in a drift. They don't ignore it in real life either. Your line through the corner demonstrates your control over the vehicle. It's also important on many tracks for linking corners properly, if you don't take the right line you won't have enough speed.

Exactly, Line account for 25% of the score in all the Pro series I judge in. If you are more than half a metre off line, we start deducting points.

On the subject of this comp, I was on Eiger last night for 10 or so laps and am now 1st UK and 43rd worldwide (might be lower now as that was 12 hours ago). I'll have another go tonight and see what I can manage.

 

[Borodori]

L_Shooter_rB26 just beat STEPMANIA! Just watched L_Shooters replay, not as "impressive" as STEPMANIA as he didn't drift the non-scoring section for "brownie points", lol.

 

[Rydeit]

Im on around 24.000 points on eiger but im good for around 27k with some more fine tuning. its funny how everyone in the highscores is using the special 62 on a controller with active steering on mild... how lame

 

[TSLRich]

Im on around 24.000 points on eiger but im good for around 27k with some more fine tuning. its funny how everyone in the highscores is using the special 62 on a controller with active steering on mild... how lame

Hmm.. I downloaded stepmania's tsukuba replay and I'm pretty sure that was done on a wheel, not a controller.

 

[pergatory]

I gotta say whats up man, I'm in Oly too. You involved in the local car scene at all?

I used to be, but not so much these days. The scene was full of posers in their poorly-modified Hondas and I just lost interest. If you been down there long enough, you might remember a white '92 Saab 9000 Turbo that used to cruise downtown looking for stoplight races and such, that was me.

I got tired of the local wannabe's and straight-line racing, and started attending more regional stuff like NorthWest Nissan & Club 4AG meets, local auto-crosses, etc. Haven't made it to many of those lately, but I really want to start going again. I'm currently driving a champaign 240SX for my daily driver, and it's a lot of fun.

Also do a lot in the rally circuit, if you go to those. I used to coordinate communications (radios) for all events in the NorthWest. These days I generally just do volunteer stuff with them though. If I'm lucky, I'll get to navigate in the pace car or something. I only ever competed once and our fuel pump broke on the 3rd stage. I seem to have bad luck in rally cars, so I prefer to stay on the sideline.

No, they are not. Drifting lines are much wider than the racing line... Especially on long sweeping corners, you are encouraged to run as wide as possible just at the edge of the track usually almost touching a wall.

I'm afraid you're mistaken. You will never get as many points for riding the edge of the track the entire time as you will by following proper race form (outside inside outside). You will get recognition for riding the edge of the track at the entrance and exit, but if you ride it through the entire corner people will see this as you having entered the corner a little late or a little too fast, and it also provides an opportunity for the person chasing to catch you or the person in front to pull away from you. The correct line is more or less the same as grip racing. Of course there are subtle differences like often having a later apex, but in general it's exactly the same.

 

[TwinturboCH]

I'm afraid you're mistaken. You will never get as many points for riding the edge of the track the entire time as you will by following proper race form (outside inside outside). You will get recognition for riding the edge of the track at the entrance and exit, but if you ride it through the entire corner people will see this as you having entered the corner a little late or a little too fast, and it also provides an opportunity for the person chasing to catch you or the person in front to pull away from you. The correct line is more or less the same as grip racing. Of course there are subtle differences like often having a later apex, but in general it's exactly the same.

Sorry, but I'm afraid it is you who is mistaken. We often demand that drivers run the outside line of a corner in order to demonstrate extra skill as running a consistant wide line is often more difficult than running the normal racing line, hence the evolution of the 'outside clipping zone' which is now in use at almost every event in the likes of Formula D, Drift AllStars (formerly JDM AllStars), PFD (Polish Pro series), IDS (German Pro series) etc etc etc.

 

[pergatory]

Sorry, but I'm afraid it is you who is mistaken. We often demand that drivers run the outside line of a corner in order to demonstrate extra skill as running a consistant wide line is often more difficult than running the normal racing line, hence the evolution of the 'outside clipping zone' which is now in use at almost every event in the likes of Formula D, Drift AllStars (formerly JDM AllStars), PFD (Polish Pro series), IDS (German Pro series) etc etc etc.

I haven't been following the pro circuit too closely for the last year or two, but this must be a really new thing because I've never heard of it.

It's also stupid and pointless if you ask me. I don't see how taking a bad line can be "more difficult" than taking a good one. It's the same corner. If I screw up and take a corner too fast while drifting, I revert to this kind of outside-edge drift. People used to be laughed at for that, now you're saying they will be praised? That's just great. I'm really saddened to hear this, and I hope it's just a fad.

 

[TwinturboCH]

I haven't been following the pro circuit too closely for the last year or two, but this must be a really new thing because I've never heard of it.

It's also stupid and pointless if you ask me. I don't see how taking a bad line can be "more difficult" than taking a good one. It's the same corner. If I screw up and take a corner too fast while drifting, I revert to this kind of outside-edge drift. People used to be laughed at for that, now you're saying they will be praised? That's just great. I'm really saddened to hear this, and I hope it's just a fad.

It's purpose is to create close and interesting battles and prevent 'cheap' overtaking moves, it serves that purpose very well indeed. It also takes FAR more skill as you have zero margin for error any mistake will see you off the road. It is also employed on 'street' style circuits where 'wall rubbing' is a highly respected skill, and is rewarded as such. I think all the Professional drivers who helped develope the idea would be saddened that something they have taken to so well is being scorned so readily.

 

[TSLRich]

It's purpose is to create close and interesting battles and prevent 'cheap' overtaking moves, it serves that purpose very well indeed. It also takes FAR more skill as you have zero margin for error any mistake will see you off the road. It is also employed on 'street' style circuits where 'wall rubbing' is a highly respected skill, and is rewarded as such. I think all the Professional drivers who helped develope the idea would be saddened that something they have taken to so well is being scorned so readily.

I would agree.... and I think the point that is being missed here is that the judges decide the line... there is no right or wrong line, just simply the line that the judges decide on.

I'm a professional photographer and I've shot drifting since 2004... here are just a few photos from the 2010 Formula D event at Wall Speedway in NJ... in this case, the judges have decided that the outside wall are a clipping point.

here are a few from a slightly different angle... looking directly down the wall.

occasionally.... mayhem ensues.

 

[StangBanger302]

I get the best results by drifting on the "driving line" and sticking to it. I got 17K on trial mountain with my supra so far! Let's try to get even better now..

 

[xx666Kris666xx]

Well I'm currently 787th on Tsukuba with the Volvo. I found a trick is to stick as close to the inside barrier as possible, but then again because I'm fighting with a heavy long wheelbase car the whole way my method of attack is likely going to be very different.

loves a bit of shoebox drifting (and pink for the win!)

 

[DaveM-sport]

It's purpose is to create close and interesting battles and prevent 'cheap' overtaking moves, it serves that purpose very well indeed. It also takes FAR more skill as you have zero margin for error any mistake will see you off the road. It is also employed on 'street' style circuits where 'wall rubbing' is a highly respected skill, and is rewarded as such. I think all the Professional drivers who helped develope the idea would be saddened that something they have taken to so well is being scorned so readily.

Exactly, The outside line around some corners is alot more difficult at times as your not straightening the corner out by taking the racing line and obviously there is zero margin for error.

The outside clipping point has really been heavily incorporated over here in ProDrift as we run mostly stree circuits apart from Mondello and if your not half a meter from the wall, you won't score heavily.

Great for spectators and skill... its only that I'm alittle nervous of doing it myself when I have my new car built and the prospect of writing it off on the first day out


I know some corners will have a very similar line to the racing line and have clipping points on the racing lines apex but some really should be an outside clipping point corner such as the one before the start/finish straight at Tsukaba or some corners on R246 or other tracks which are nice long sweeping corners.

 

[TwinturboCH]

Exactly, The outside line around some corners is alot more difficult at times as your not straightening the corner out by taking the racing line and obviously there is zero margin for error.

The outside clipping point has really been heavily incorporated over here in ProDrift as we run mostly stree circuits apart from Mondello and if your not half a meter from the wall, you won't score heavily.

Great for spectators and skill... its only that I'm alittle nervous of doing it myself when I have my new car built and the prospect of writing it off on the first day out


I know some corners will have a very similar line to the racing line and have clipping points on the racing lines apex but some really should be an outside clipping point corner such as the one before the start/finish straight at Tsukaba or some corners on R246 or other tracks which are nice long sweeping corners.

Exactly, wall running for the win

And in case you're wondering, that's me at the end announcing the winner LOL

OT: what do you drive in PD?

 

[teh luckinator]

SLOW MO BUT REGULAR MOVING DUDE IS AMAZING ^^^^^^^^

and also, corolla bn is amazing.

 

[pergatory]

It's purpose is to create close and interesting battles and prevent 'cheap' overtaking moves, it serves that purpose very well indeed. It also takes FAR more skill as you have zero margin for error any mistake will see you off the road. It is also employed on 'street' style circuits where 'wall rubbing' is a highly respected skill, and is rewarded as such. I think all the Professional drivers who helped develope the idea would be saddened that something they have taken to so well is being scorned so readily.

The apparent decrease in margin of error is artificial. There's zero margin for error without using these lines, it's just easier to hide it from the amateurs by altering your line. The judges will still see it.

Also, it creates conflicting goals. One of the things I've always liked about drifting is that not only are you pushing the car to its limits, but it also kept the racing spirit of speed. Drifting didn't start out as a show-boating sport, it started out in the mountain of Japan where drivers were trying to drive faster. They found that even though the fastest possible line is a grip-like line (I say grip-like due to slip angles being involved) but by sliding the tires they were able to keep the car very near that ideal speed through the corner even if they make some mistakes. The end results was that they were faster drifting than they were gripping, just like the rally guys. As traction decreases, and the margin of error for grip driving with it, sliding becomes more useful.

This "outside line" stuff is just showboating, and in my opinion takes the sport further from its roots than it should go. I realize that drifting, by its nature, is showboating... but there's a reason they kept speed as a factor for judging.

 

[Ignis]

EDIT: Forgot to add, that was in my British racing green Ginetta G4' 64. She's such an awesome little car, best car I've driven yet. Drifts like a dream, smokes for whole tracks at a time, she's a blast to drive.

You dont happen to be willing to share your setup on that car?
New to drifting and this seems to be the car i can get most points with (still very little tho ;P) so be nice to know what i might need to change on the car to get it going better

 

[TwinturboCH]

The apparent decrease in margin of error is artificial. There's zero margin for error without using these lines, it's just easier to hide it from the amateurs by altering your line. The judges will still see it.

Also, it creates conflicting goals. One of the things I've always liked about drifting is that not only are you pushing the car to its limits, but it also kept the racing spirit of speed. Drifting didn't start out as a show-boating sport, it started out in the mountain of Japan where drivers were trying to drive faster. They found that even though the fastest possible line is a grip-like line (I say grip-like due to slip angles being involved) but by sliding the tires they were able to keep the car very near that ideal speed through the corner even if they make some mistakes. The end results was that they were faster drifting than they were gripping, just like the rally guys. As traction decreases, and the margin of error for grip driving with it, sliding becomes more useful.

This "outside line" stuff is just showboating, and in my opinion takes the sport further from its roots than it should go. I realize that drifting, by its nature, is showboating... but there's a reason they kept speed as a factor for judging.

To a point you are correct, speed is important, and yes we still judge it, but it is all relative, we decide on the line that must be taken and then drivers have to get through it as fast and as sideways as possible yada yada yada....

BUT competition drifting and street drifting has always been about pushing yourself to the limit and creating a spectacle, drifting IS a show and therefore, whatever looks coolest is what we have to strive for. Look at how D1 has ALWAYS been. I know for a fact, running that wall at Wembley at 60mph is a LOT more challenging than sticking to a 'normal' racing line. I should know, I designed and test drove the track for the first Wembley event in '08 (as well as competing), and was part of a team of three who designed and test drove the track for '09 (in the video) and '10 events.

Like I said, I CAN see your point, but drifting has evolved beyond what it was and has to continue to evolve, in order to create the best SPECTACLE possible. It's the only way to pull in crowds, and thus create a succesful series.

 

[Borodori]

So, what's everyone's highest score so far for the seasonal drift events? Anybody going the '62 buick route?👎👎👎

 

[pergatory]

To a point you are correct, speed is important, and yes we still judge it, but it is all relative, we decide on the line that must be taken and then drivers have to get through it as fast and as sideways as possible yada yada yada....

BUT competition drifting and street drifting has always been about pushing yourself to the limit and creating a spectacle, drifting IS a show and therefore, whatever looks coolest is what we have to strive for. Look at how D1 has ALWAYS been. I know for a fact, running that wall at Wembley at 60mph is a LOT more challenging than sticking to a 'normal' racing line. I should know, I designed and test drove the track for the first Wembley event in '08 (as well as competing), and was part of a team of three who designed and test drove the track for '09 (in the video) and '10 events.

Like I said, I CAN see your point, but drifting has evolved beyond what it was and has to continue to evolve, in order to create the best SPECTACLE possible. It's the only way to pull in crowds, and thus create a succesful series.

I see your point as well, and I guess in a way I already knew it was more about drawing crowds than the sport itself. I think that's my main gripe with it, in fact. I'm stubborn like that.

You're right it can be harder, but think of adding another base between 1st and 2nd in Baseball. It would make it harder, but what's the point? I have an idea, you could add a ramp and jump to the drift course too and it would be even more spectacular! That's my main fear is that this is the first step down that path.

Drifting has indeed evolved, not just in this respect but in others too. There are a lot more high-speed corners in the international realm than there were in the days when D1 was it. Those Japanese tracks are much more tight and technical than what the rest of the world is used to, and you can tell each corner was crafted very carefully. I loved that.

It seems like that's the hardest balance of any sport. Money is necessary for the sport to exist on a professional level, but to make money the sport must move away from its core and embrace broader goals to attract a wider audience.

That's why it saddens me. Inevitable? Perhaps...

 

[fail wagon]

So, what's everyone's highest score so far for the seasonal drift events? Anybody going the '62 buick route?👎👎👎

i made it into the tops 100 on reverse trial mountain with the 88 supra. thats my best so far

 

[Jacko6793]

i use nissan gtr spec v ful mod and on lowwest top speed n1 tyres every aid off apart from driving line any one know what the scoring system is based on:
entry speed?
speed?
gear?
angle of attack?
line?
if any1 had any answers thanx PSN: Jacko6793