Seasonal Events - Would This Please Everyone?

[Destinkeys]

Band-Aids to a sucking chest wound...

What we NEED is a return to GT4's system. And three or four times as many A-Spec Events. Nothing else CURES the problem.

 

[iinsom00]

So then what if you start the challenges fully maxed out, and slowly work back to the BHP and weight targets?

Would you still get XP + gold for going back? (Assuming you get first everytime)

 

[Tekku]

and to build on this idea...give the winners of the restricted/1st week races double the xp/cash that the unrestricted/2nd week winners get. problem solved!

Or just have difficulties?

Easy - No restrictions, easy AI, a small amount money.

Medium - Some restrictions, medium AI, a fair amount of money.

Hard - Many restrictions, hard AI, a big amount of money.

Expert - Full restrictions, expert AI, a huge amount of money and a car ticket.

Or you can do it like Grid; combine different difficulties and the money adjusts accordingly. I played with hard AI for example and some assists.

 

[Villain]

People will whine no matter what PD decided to do. Yes, you can quote this for truth.

Done. For truth.

 

[DanDiplo]

So then what if you start the challenges fully maxed out, and slowly work back to the BHP and weight targets?

Would you still get XP + gold for going back? (Assuming you get first everytime)

Yes, you would, but this would only be a proportion of the credits/XP for winning the first time. The game just needs to keep track of your "power ratio" for your "best" win and deduct the difference from your new win. This is what happens effectively already in events, anyway - if you get Silver then you get points for Bronze as well as 4th, 5th etc. But if you subsequently get Gold you just get points for Gold, and not Silver, Bronze etc. again. In other words, the difference. This would work equally in my scheme, so when you reduce HP you get more points if you win again (but not all of them).

NB. The only slight problem is you can't undo weight reductions so you might have to buy a new car to go back to stock. But people would learn this and so make this the last upgrade, if they are smart.

 

[Gaiajohan]

I think this is a nice one.
The restrictions as hard as event 1 and 2 were. But if you have a better car than the restrictions allow you just get half of prize money and half of xp.. That way everyone can gold it, but maybe not within the restrictions, while everyone who wants a challenge really has a challenge.

 

[frewin69]

💡

your prize money and experience should be awarded based on the level of modification done to your car?!

keep it stock, you get all the cash... start modifying it, and your prizes decrease by a percentage of how much you've spent on the car!

but we all know this won't happen... it's too common sense lol

 

[Griffith500]

💡

your prize money and experience should be awarded based on the level of modification done to your car?!

keep it stock, you get all the cash... start modifying it, and your prizes decrease by a percentage of how much you've spent on the car!

but we all know this won't happen... it's too common sense lol

That, and people will complain that they're being made to feel bad because they can't complete it to the fullest extent - why should they "suffer", just because they're not as fast as other people? I wonder if people complain that the licence tests should not be so hard, too? It's this kind of nannying, i.e. not letting people really see their limitations, that provides all the comedy on "talent" shows, though - oh, and the general state of incompetence we all encounter on a day-to-day basis...

Oh well. I'm sure you can attribute many other inconsistencies and "half-arsed" (halfway-house?) features (damage, tuning etc.) to this same issue; some people can cope, others can't; still others don't want to.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Since the seasonal event races are basically a rip-off of Project Gotham Racing's overtake challenges, why not just model them more after that game? You want the full prize? The AI starts much further ahead. 2/3 of the prize? The AI isn't as far away at the start. 1/3 of the prize? Closer yet. Make it unlimited but to get the cash and credits you have more time to make up.

A rip off ? Thye have been around in GT for a long time. Remember the missions in GT4?


I think that if they are going to use no restrictions then the AI at the very least should use the same tires you use. If you put of soft race tires and the AI is running Hard Sport it is not much of a contest on most tracks but if the AI had the same tires even if a bit underpowered and heavy compared to the player it could still be a decent race.

 

[gambleboyen]

It wouldnt be too bad if there was no restriction on what car to use in the seasonal events either, becasue with BHP/weight limits that wouldnt be relevant.

 

[Jimmie]

I never understood about the complaints of events being "too easy". Gran Turismo has always been about choice, if you want to overpower an event, go ahead, if you want a challenge try using a stock car, perhaps with just a pair of tyres.

I dont see why someone else winning an event in a 700hp monster should stop you doing it in your 250hp run-around. It makes no difference to me how anyone else does it, i'm only concerned about having fun myself.

 

[the Interceptor]

Interestingly, this would be pretty much exactly the system we had in GT4 with A-Spec points. In that game, you got 200 points maximum in a race and less the more you upgraded your car.

 

[Griffith500]

Interestingly, this would be pretty much exactly the system we had in GT4 with A-Spec points. In that game, you got 200 points maximum and less the more you upgraded your car.

Except that the points meant nothing in terms of "actual" reward. It was enough for me in most cases, though.

 

[namregzepol]

Like I've said in other thread...

I think it's difficult to make happy all the people.

What do expert people look for? Xp? Credits? That's not the difference, since the rest of the people look for the same. I think they look for the challenge and for the reward (not as cr or exp).

I think that we need a new thropy for those people that make it the hard way. Maybe a new Platinum Thropy (GT5 trophy, no PSN trophy) as reward for making it with restrictions or make the actual different: second or third with no restrictions bronce, first with no restrictions silver and first with restrictions gold.

The difference between gold and silver must be small or very small in cr and exp. This way silver players got their good amount of cr and exp and gold players got their 'difference' and cache.

Do you think is fair enought?

This just for the seasonal, not for the rest of the game.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The problem with the events being easy is that they tend to be boring. If the events are hard it forces you to look for a car and build it a specific way, tune it and drive the race usually more than once in order to get a win. The win is more satisfing and you may actually learn something about tuning, driving and may even find a cool car that you might not have otherwise tried, whereas with no restrictions you just fire up a race car with soft tires and even if you drive horribly you still win on the first try and learn nothing. Before long you have completed all the events and do not have much XP and are complaining about needing to grind for XP or complaining that you have already did all the events.

Challenge makes it interesting, lack of challenge makes it boring. Forza 3 suffers from the lack of challenge with the options to set the AI to easy, auto brake, rewind. Even those of us who like a good challenge are tempted by these lack of restrictions and as a result do not enjoy the game as much as we would otherwise.


btw I thought silver was pretty easy in the first 2 sets of events and even Gold was pretty easy on most of them. I ended up getting Gold on 7 of them in one or 2 tries each and silver on the other 3 without much problem.

 

[the Interceptor]

Except that the points meant nothing in terms of "actual" reward.

Not really, but there was a maximum number of A-Spec points you could reach. A lot of people went for 200 points races in their second time 'round GT4, it was a "virtual reward" for doing it with a car equal to the opposition.

 

[tigersharkdude]

I want to throw my 2cents in there

As stated by someone else in another thread, who do you think GT5 is catering to? Hardcore or casual players? Who makes up the majority of players, hardcore or casual?
Im going to say there are more casual players than hardcore. So who do you think they are trying to make happy, 20% of players or 80%?

 

[Bluez_Freak]

The problem with the events being easy is that they tend to be boring. If the events are hard it forces you to look for a car and build it a specific way, tune it and drive the race usually more than once in order to get a win. The win is more satisfing and you may actually learn something about tuning, driving and may even find a cool car that you might not have otherwise tried, whereas with no restrictions you just fire up a race car with soft tires and even if you drive horribly you still win on the first try and learn nothing. Before long you have completed all the events and do not have much XP and are complaining about needing to grind for XP or complaining that you have already did all the events.

Challenge makes it interesting, lack of challenge makes it boring.

Exactly my thoughts.

How many times have you thought in the licenses "oh my, this is not possible" yet there you are trying again and again and again until the 30th time you pass the challenge and you give the finger to the TV (at least I do ) after having proudly golded the damn thing...

As I have said in another post it's PD's job to make the game challenging by putting some restrictions. Our job is to play it until our skills are so much improved as to be able to win it.

That's the fundamental rule of every computer game since they ever existed.

 

[Griffith500]

Not really, but there was a maximum number of A-Spec points you could reach. A lot of people went for 200 points races in their second time 'round GT4, it was a "virtual reward" for doing it with a car equal to the opposition.

Selective quoting eh?

I aimed for the maximum A-Spec points I could manage (even the first time through), although we all know that a car "equal" to the opposition is, in fact, only equal to the average opposition. Cue frustrating wild-card entries that ruin your otherwise close race

One good thing about these events (well, Bonus Race 2) is that it's forced me to learn the tracks properly. I used to be pretty good at Laguna Seca, but it seems I forgot how to race there. That's fixed now.
Madrid is a remarkably fiddly track at times, and requires a lot of patience in places (as well as balls-out mentalism in others), so I enjoyed learning that one, too. Arguably the biggest thing they teach is consistency, in my opinion.

I'm still convinced these last three seasonal events batches have been to scope out the player-base, for PD's own research. We should see something interesting in the future.
And yes, games are historically about challenge - even before they appeared on computers

 

[mlowther]

This happens anyway, the more you spend on the car the lower the net profit from the event, you are already being rewarded extra credits for not over-upgrading the car for the race.

 

[masmullin]

This idea is perfect and should be implemented for a-spec as well. (not bspec though... I just want my idiot driver to bloodywell win)

 

[abfielder]

For all those saying less rewards for over powering your car, technically those who tune the cars up to the hilt get less money for winning as they spent loads on the car.

As for XP it's such a flawed system why does it make a difference if I want some easy xp doing more varied races than grinding indy in the American series?

 

[DanDiplo]

This happens anyway, the more you spend on the car the lower the net profit from the event, you are already being rewarded extra credits for not over-upgrading the car for the race.

This is a fair point, and I did consider this, but there isn't any real correlation between BHP and the cost of upgrades. An ECU or a Racing Filter are relatively cheap, yet give a big boost. Plus you also need to consider that people may already have a car and upgraded it previous to the event.

 

[Tvensky]

It seems the community is polarised between the people who liked Seasonal Events having restrictions and those that find it more fun without. So here's an idea that might just please everyone (though I doubt it ):

OK. Each seasonal event would have target BHP and weight restrictions displayed when you view it. These restrictions would be set at roughly the same level we saw for the original Season 1 and Season 2 events. That is, a level that is very challenging win, but one that is still definitely achievable with the right tuning and driving skills.

However, you won't be stopped from entering the event if you go over the BHP or under the weight restriction, but your XP and prize money will be reduced accordingly. So, the more BHP over the target limit you go, the less money and XP you get. Same for weight. This would be dynamic, so when you enter your car you see exactly how much your set-up would earn. This would also prevent petty things like you having performed an oil change stopping you entering a car because your are 2 BHP over the limit.

This way everyone still has a chance of winning, but the better drivers and tuners can still earn more for their skills and rewards people for the level of challenge they set themselves. Everyone is happy and no-one argues any more!

👍👍👍 +1 this is MUST HAVE, and deliver this text to PD HQ!!!!! 👍

PS. this would also help for OIL GLICH.. I was very disappointed when I find out my nascar car cant race on Nurburg in Seasonal event 2, Race 5, restriction was set to 850 and my both cars was over it, one 867 other 880... I was mad.. I had to give my cars to B-bob to do alot of laps so they can reduce HP... grrrrrr..

 

[sumbrownkid]

The way I see it is, I've invested a lot of money into buying a car and for it's upgrades. So I'll want to see my investment return me my credits.

Pescarolo + Grand Valley enduro = major

 

[tinram]

Great idea, but i do see anything that needs fixing.

People will complain no matter what, i learned that here in GTPlanet.

 

[Verbal]

Limiting yourself is not the same thing.
In a restricted race I know (or at least can assume) that on the one hand it is at all possible to beat the race with a given car and on the other hand that the only way I can do better is to drive better. Without restrictions I have no idea what car / state of tune would be needed to have a chance at all and I know that can always slap on a bigger turbo and be done with it. Totally different situation and obviously many people prefer one over the other...

 

[tribolik]

I never understood about the complaints of events being "too easy". Gran Turismo has always been about choice, if you want to overpower an event, go ahead, if you want a challenge try using a stock car, perhaps with just a pair of tyres.

I dont see why someone else winning an event in a 700hp monster should stop you doing it in your 250hp run-around. It makes no difference to me how anyone else does it, i'm only concerned about having fun myself.

+1

Besides if I race a 700 hp car in a 250 hp race I had to spend some money getting the extra 450 hp.

Some of us do work and would like to make it to lvl 40 also

I really dont see the point of making it harder to finish the game for the rest of us...

 

[Devedander]

People will whine no matter what PD decided to do. Yes, you can quote this for truth.

People will whine about potential whiners even in a thread that has no whiners.

I never understood about the complaints of events being "too easy". Gran Turismo has always been about choice, if you want to overpower an event, go ahead, if you want a challenge try using a stock car, perhaps with just a pair of tyres.

I dont see why someone else winning an event in a 700hp monster should stop you doing it in your 250hp run-around. It makes no difference to me how anyone else does it, i'm only concerned about having fun myself.

If you have to pull out extreme examples to make a point, your point is probably not worth making. Just like it was silly to say "if you want damage and watching cars explode, play burnout!" I dont' think anyone is complaining about bringing 700 hp beasts to a 250 hp competition - the complaint is that a great feature (being givin a challenging but doable limit) made the races fun and put a goal there you probably wouldn't get yourself.

I absolutely agree it doesn't matter how anyone else does it, but not listing restrcitions means I can't do it how I liked anymore - not because it's absolutely impossilbe, but because the work to figure out those very hard but doable restrcitions is grueling and not enjoyable at all...

For instance take your suggestion of trying a stock car with stock tires... I tried the Ford GT race for hours on stock tires... I can't win... does that mean I need to upgrade or I just haven't gotten good enough? On some of the previous seasonal events I spent hours and couldn't win... but it didn't mean it was impossible... it was just I wasn't good enough yet. So with the Ford GT event am I just bashing my head against the wall in an impossible challenge or do I just need to practice for more hours?

THAT is the difference between seasonal events then and now... then I KNEW my work was going to pay off if I got good enough... that keeps it satisfying. Now I never know... I don't want to give up on a challenge that's doable but I just need to get better... but if the challenge might be impossilbe, it takes all the satisfaction out of trying and just makes it frustrating becuase I am always thinking "I am probably just wasting my time".

People seem to not understand the difference between tuning a car down to your current level to make it challenging, and being given a set challenge that makes you up your game to meet said challenge.

I can say for one, I almost certainly would never have tried to win some of those seasonal races as they were set up for very long had I not been told ahead of time those setups were winnable... and as a result of trying that setup until I won, I got to know the car better and became a better driver.

And not, it's not the same as just trying it on my own and tuning up a bit each time I fail until I get a winnable setup... most of those challenges I didn't win for HOURS and so would have thought were impossible if I was just tuning to my own skill level.

See my sig for my post on why it is that way.

And OP yes, that sounds like a great idea... good balance, everyone gets something and it really does mean you can do it how you want.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

There's always chance for an emulsion; add in a few stabilising agents and it could last a while without agitation!

To be clear, I always try to present a decent challenge by carefully selecting and tuning my cars before entry to an event. But not everyone's like that, which is fine.

Hopefully PD will learn a lot from these seasonal events and be able to please everyone in the future!

I also try to have a decent challenge as well yet most of the time it's like shooting in the dark. Every once in a while I get lucky and have a challenging race yet most of the time I either don't have a chance of winning or past everyone with ease before the last lap.