September 11th 2006

[Sakiale]

He's 15 or 16. I'm 13, and I was 7 at the time.

 

[McLaren]

In-****ing-deed. 👍 But let's remember...he's only 13..isn't he?

His profile states he's 16, an age where such ignorance for the Muslim religon should not even be thought of.

 

[Sage]

Would you suggest “flattening” Israel too? After all, it’s part of the Middle East…

The reson I said we should flatten them is because as long is there any muslims there will be attacks like 9/11 and in spain and london and all the other ones before 9/11.

You know, I’m a bit of a militant atheist, and yet even I wouldn’t say something like that. You do realize that about 900 years ago the Christians were even worse with their crusades? Now look at Christianity – the preaching of killing is almost nonexistent.

You also seem to have forgotten (or maybe never knew in the first place) that we, the US and several European countries, have been meddling in the Middle East for a number of decades, far far before the current mode of Islamic terrorism developed. Even though Osama and his cronies claim that this is strictly a religious war (i.e., a crusade), my opinion is that if we were a more strictly isolationist country, the Islamic terrorists wouldn’t have targeted our country. We’ve been promising various withdrawals since the 1940s, and haven’t really delivered on that.

I still hate religious crusading and terrorism, mind you, but you can’t pretend that our interventionist policy didn’t fan some of the flames.

 

[socomplayer2]

Ok, I am not going to do all that quote stuff so I will say this all in general.

Yes I am 16, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to what is going on "over there" and I am not a complete idiot. The whole flattening the middle east is overstatement of what I want to get across and it was wrong. I know personally a kid who was killed by insurgent who just felt the need to kill an American because we were freeing there country from a dictator who killed many thousands with torture, senseless and chemical . Another person I know who is now out of the armed forces I talked to say most of the insurgents are not even from Iraq they just go there to kill a few Americans and go home by the means of I.E.D.'s, Mortars, and so on. Its not the gov't we should worry about (for the most part) its the citizens in them.

To sum it up why I said that MOST of the dangers in the department come from the middle east area and yes we do have some allies like you pointed out and there may be some people who like us but what do we see happening, ers, insurgents, both religious extremists, these people will stop at nothing to disrupt our society and shed the of "westerners", no matter how big or small, they want to hurt us and our way of life.

If they can do something as major as the 9/11 attacks they will most likely try again. And when they do it wont be soldiers dieing it will be people like your neighbors or you friends.

I am expressing my feelings and opinions, maybe they are not what you like or believe in but I don't see how this is a reason for getting banned.

And yea Christians were bad in the crusades but that was between 700-900 years ago, not now.



I will be gone for a week and I will check to see all your nice responses then.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Ok, I am not going to do all that quote stuff so I will say this all in general.

Yes I am 16, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to what is going on "over there" and I am not a complete idiot. The whole flattening the middle east is overstatement of what I want to get across and it was wrong. I know personally a kid who was killed by insurgent who just felt the need to kill an American because we were freeing there country from a dictator who killed many thousands with torture, senseless and chemical . Another person I know who is now out of the armed forces I talked to say most of the insurgents are not even from Iraq they just go there to kill a few Americans and go home by the means of I.E.D.'s, Mortars, and so on. Its not the gov't we should worry about (for the most part) its the citizens in them.

To sum it up why I said that MOST of the dangers in the department come from the middle east area and yes we do have some allies like you pointed out and there may be some people who like us but what do we see happening, ers, insurgents, both religious extremists, these people will stop at nothing to disrupt our society and shed the of "westerners", no matter how big or small, they want to hurt us and our way of life.

If they can do something as major as the 9/11 attacks they will most likely try again. And when they do it wont be soldiers dieing it will be people like your neighbors or you friends.

I am expressing my feelings and opinions, maybe they are not what you like or believe in but I don't see how this is a reason for getting banned.

And yea Christians were bad in the crusades but that was between 700-900 years ago, not now.



I will be gone for a week and I will check to see all your nice responses then.

You should quit while you are behind. With each post you make yourself look more ignorant.

 

[McLaren]

Yes I am 16, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to what is going on "over there" and I am not a complete idiot.

Really? Because you fooled me when thought the entire Middle East should be attacked.

The whole flattening the middle east is overstatement of what I want to get across and it was wrong.

At least you admitted it.

I know personally a kid who was killed by insurgent who just felt the need to kill an American because we were freeing there country from a dictator who killed many thousands with torture, senseless and chemical .

Because they don't like our ways of life, and don't want them in their country.

Another person I know who is now out of the armed forces I talked to say most of the insurgents are not even from Iraq they just go there to kill a few Americans and go home by the means of I.E.D.'s, Mortars, and so on.

Again, because they don't like us. They don't want us or our ways in their country.

Its not the gov't we should worry about (for the most part) its the citizens in them.

I never said the govt. was what we're worrying about, and I know its the citizens. However, not all the citizens deserve to "be flattened".

To sum it up why I said that MOST of the dangers in the department come from the middle east area

No. You pretty much said Muslims were the reasons. You didn't say anything else about where the terrorists came from but that it was the Middle East and that they are Muslims.

and yes we do have some allies like you pointed out and there may be some people who like us but what do we see happening, ers, insurgents, both religious extremists, these people will stop at nothing to disrupt our society and shed the of "westerners", no matter how big or small, they want to hurt us and our way of life.

Again...because they don't like us. They don't like our freedom, or what we can do.

If they can do something as major as the 9/11 attacks they will most likely try again. And when they do it wont be soldiers dieing it will be people like your neighbors or you friends.

And that's why we're there fighting. As for killing neighbors and friends, they already do that in their own countries.

I am expressing my feelings and opinions, maybe they are not what you like or believe in but I don't see how this is a reason for getting banned.

Saying Muslims should be all killed because they are terrorists is not an opinion. It's ignorance, and sterotypical.

And yea Christians were bad in the crusades but that was between 700-900 years ago, not now.

That's regardless. Point Sage was saying is that Christians were just as evil back then. Yet, Christians today who don't like what's happening in Iraq will rarely admit they were just as bad 900 years ago.

I will be gone for a week and I will check to see all your nice responses then.

Some advice: Think long and hard about what you're saying when talking about terrorists, and don't assume a religon is nothing but full of terrorists.

 

[Sureboss]

To sum it up why I said that MOST of the dangers in the department come from the middle east area and yes we do have some allies like you pointed out and there may be some people who like us but what do we see happening, ers, insurgents, both religious extremists, these people will stop at nothing to disrupt our society and shed the of "westerners", no matter how big or small, they want to hurt us and our way of life.

Disrupt your society? The Allies have done far more to disrupt the society of the middle east then they have here, I am ashamed of many things we've done in the middle east and extending to Pakistan and it's partition which lead to millions of lives lost. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq under Allied occupation. As much as terrorist activities have affected our society, it barely touches the surface as to what we've done in their home lands.

 

[zoxxy]

I know personally a kid who was killed by insurgent who just felt the need to kill an American because we were freeing there country from a dictator who killed many thousands with torture, senseless and chemical ..

Oh, so Bush sent the troops to Iraq, which I suppose is what you mean with 'there country', solely to make the world a better place and save the day?
Dude, lighten up.

Look, I don't like America. I think it's lead by an egoistic govt., whose only target is short-term profits. I've got a lot of friends over there, so I'm not talking about disliking all the people over there.

Some peoples mentality on the other hand.

Socomplayer2, you greatly prove my point - they hurt us, now we should bomb the living **** out of everyone in that general area, innocent or not! That would be doing the same thing those terroists did. Sadly, that's not how the Bush-government is reasoning.

It's immature thinking even for a teenager, let alone the most powerful country in the world.

 

[FoolKiller]

B] they hurt us, now we should bomb the living **** out of everyone in that general area, innocent or not! [/B] That would be doing the same thing those terroists did. Sadly, that's not how the Bush-government is reasoning.

It's immature thinking even for a teenager, let alone the most powerful country in the world.

You do realize that if that were how America were thinking it would look liek a ginat glass lake and we would already be home by now, right? The reason why we are taking so many casualties and not getting in and out is because we do care about the civillains and are trying to do our best to not get them all killed. The only people over there right now that are killing everyone in sight are the insurgents.

 

[zoxxy]

Oh yeah, America definately has the firepower to do so.
But if it were up to them personally, it wouldn't have been this 'few' casualties. But, since PR is what politics is all about, they kept it to a mellow 70000 civilians, instead of vaporizing half the planet (which they would've done by now).

Look, I don't wanna act like some hippie, getting all paranoid, but the US gov. makes sure that we only see what they want us too.
Everybody knows that America didn't pay Iraq a visit to look for WOMD. But since it's United States of America, nobody asked any questions.



IMO.

 

[McLaren]

Oh yeah, America definately has the firepower to do so.
But if it were up to them personally, it wouldn't have been this 'few' casualties. But, since PR is what politics is all about, they kept it to a mellow 70000 lives, instead of vaporizing half the planet (which they would've done by now).

Look, I don't wanna act like some hippie, getting all paranoid, but the US gov. makes sure that we only see what they want us too.
Everybody knows that America didn't pay Iraq a visit to look for WOMD. But since it's United States of America, nobody asked any questions.



IMO.

Yeah, and I guess we didn't find anything either.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

 

[FoolKiller]

But, since PR is what politics is all about, they kept it to a mellow 70000 civilians, instead of vaporizing half the planet (which they would've done by now).

The majority of those 70,000 were not killed by American troops. While some were killed by Americans under various circumstances, some deplorable, most of them were not. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the majority of these killings are being done by the insurgents.

Here, to make my point I will link to an anti-war site counting civilian casualties and databasing them.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Read it and you will see that the majority say it was from suicide bombers, car bombs, IEDs, etc. There are a large number that say beheadings in there. As the insurgents liek to film those and show them on the Internet I am pretty sure those aren't being done by American troops.

Look, I don't wanna act like some hippie, getting all paranoid, but the US gov. makes sure that we only see what they want us too.

Wow, they sure don't know how to make it look like we're winning then. They may hide certain things for various reasons, but if they have controlled everything then Americans would be thinking the war was going absolutely perfectly and we are doing just the right thing. Instead we get a lot of doom and gloom and support for the war is very nearly gone.

Everybody knows that America didn't pay Iraq a visit to look for WOMD.

That must be why my gas is so cheap then.

But since it's United States of America, nobody asked any questions.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/iraq.weapons/
http://www.serendipity.li/iraqwar.htm
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JS...3a&page=NewsArticle&id=7196&news_iv_ctrl=1501
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/iraq-the-big-neveraske_b_60246.html

And I can go on, and on, and on.

 

[zoxxy]

The majority of those 70,000 were not killed by American troops. While some were killed by Americans under various circumstances, some deplorable, most of them were not. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the majority of these killings are being done by the insurgents.

Here, to make my point I will link to an anti-war site counting civilian casualties and databasing them.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Read it and you will see that the majority say it was from suicide bombers, car bombs, IEDs, etc. There are a large number that say beheadings in there. As the insurgents liek to film those and show them on the Internet I am pretty sure those aren't being done by American troops.

Wow, they sure don't know how to make it look like we're winning then. They may hide certain things for various reasons, but if they have controlled everything then Americans would be thinking the war was going absolutely perfectly and we are doing just the right thing. Instead we get a lot of doom and gloom and support for the war is very nearly gone.

You proved me wrong there.

That must be why my gas is so cheap then.

Yeah, probably. Mine sure as hell isn't.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/iraq.weapons/
http://www.serendipity.li/iraqwar.htm
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JS...3a&page=NewsArticle&id=7196&news_iv_ctrl=1501
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/iraq-the-big-neveraske_b_60246.html

And I can go on, and on, and on.

You missunderstood; everybody asked questions, but they didn't recieve any clear answers. Since day 1 there has been anti-war organizations, politicians and even the UN protesting against it, but only now, 4 years later, is the war slowly fading to a halt. Plus, with the Isreal and Palestina conflict, America got even more tangled into stuff that has nothing to do with them, and atleast I have no clue why they jumped on that bandwagon.

 

[Sureboss]

Yeah, and I guess we didn't find anything either.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

It's odd that though. You'd have thought information like that would be well known, but I don't know if I've ever heard that on British TV, or any TV for that matter.

Of course having WMDs and having the ICBM that could reach Britain or the US is another matter. Given the success of the North Korean ICBM tests last year (was it?) Saddam would've ended up blowing up Iraq as opposed to the US/UK.

 

[FoolKiller]

Yeah, probably. Mine sure as hell isn't.

Hang on, let me fix that for you.

[sarcasm]That must be why my gas is so cheap then.[/sarcasm]

You missunderstood; everybody asked questions, but they didn't recieve any clear answers. Since day 1 there has been anti-war organizations, politicians and even the UN protesting against it, but only now, 4 years later, is the war slowly fading to a halt. Plus, with the Isreal and Palestina conflict, America got even more tangled into stuff that has nothing to do with them, and atleast I have no clue why they jumped on that bandwagon.

When Congress voted to go to war they laid out the reasons and stipulations. Now, I challenge you to find me any war where the government goes around telling everyone what the plan is, what they are doing, how they are doing it, how they know what they know, etc. There is a saying, "Loose lips sink ships." If you answer every question then you wind up with even more dead people.

No one is whining that the insurgents haven't answered questions about why they are setting of bombs during sports celebrations or public squares where there are no American troops within range.

We are not some mighty evil country hell bent on killing Muslims for the fun of it, just so we can get some cheap oil. It would be easier and cheaper for us to just kill some environmentalists and drill in Alaska and the Gulf ourselves while telling the Middle East economy to go screw itself.

As for Israel/Palestine, um we have always been in that as Israel is an ally. We have been in that for decades. This isn't anything new. I have no clue where you are going with this. And God forbid we try and get their leaders to meet on neutral territory in the US to discuss terms of peace. I hate it when we do that, because I prefer us to just go in and kill everyone and claim the land and resources for ourselves.[/sarcasm]

It's odd that though. You'd have thought information like that would be well known, but I don't know if I've ever heard that on British TV, or any TV for that matter.

It was mentioned for about three hours, then some pundits twisted the story into 'Well, that's just the old stuff from before. Where's the new stuff?' After that the media treated it like it meant nothing, despite the fact that the multiple UN resolutions used as a basis for war told Iraq to destroy their previous WMDs and show it. The people that didn't want the story to be big made it sound like it wasn't and it kind of fell off after that. Now anytime a war supporter brings it up during a debate on TV their opponent just says that it was old stuff, and not what we are after, which is not true. It is half of what we are after.

Of course having WMDs and having the ICBM that could reach Britain or the US is another matter. Given the success of the North Korean ICBM tests last year (was it?) Saddam would've ended up blowing up Iraq as opposed to the US/UK.

Actually Saddam would have poisoned Iraqis, which he did, and was why he was given the death sentence.

The issue with North Korea is a different one altogether. They have a very, very big friend and neighbor with very, very big bombs as well as a surplus of population that they wouldn't hesitate to send to their deaths.

 

[zoxxy]

Hang on, let me fix that for you.

[sarcasm]That must be why my gas is so cheap then.[/sarcasm]

A gallon is currently $2.57. That's 18,29 SEK per gallon. And since a gallon is 3.8 litre, it makes the US price for gas 4.81 SEK per litre. The price for the same unleaded gas here in Sweden is 12.31 SEK per litre.


So yeah, your gas is cheap.

The issue with North Korea is a different one altogether. They have a very, very big friend and neighbor with very, very big bombs as well as a surplus of population that they wouldn't hesitate to send to their deaths.

Yeah, North Korea is just a bunch of savages who happen to have access to alot of hefty weapons, which they will use on anyone including their own people.


No. You see what the propaganda makes you believe? It's actually pretty ironic that the Land of Freedom, uses almost as much brainwashing as the communstic dictature of North Korea. The only difference is that it's way more refined, not just using the good ol' big picture on wall with the leader holding children.

But it really doesn't matter, 'cause my opinion of USA won't change. As I said, I have a lot of friends their, so this isn't a personal attack. But it just doesn't make sense - the most powerful country in the world is lead by a gun crazy simpleton. And you can't argue with that.

 

[FoolKiller]

A gallon is currently $2.57. That's 18,29 SEK per gallon. And since a gallon is 3.8 litre, it makes the US price for gas 4.81 SEK per litre. The price for the same unleaded gas here in Sweden is 12.31 SEK per litre.


So yeah, your gas is cheap.

Take out your taxes and it will be just about equal... factoring in local market conditions and shipping.

Yeah, North Korea is just a bunch of savages who happen to have access to alot of hefty weapons, which they will use on anyone including their own people.

Because that is what I said. I was talking about China being a nuclear power with an extremely large number of people in their army as well. China would not let us invade North Korea unless North Korea threatened China with nukes. That makes it a much trickier situation.

But it just doesn't make sense - the most powerful country in the world is lead by a gun crazy simpleton. And you can't argue with that.

Yeah, apparently you haven't bought into any propaganda. We have three three parts of government, two that have to agree with each other to go to war. You forget that Congress voted to approve the war. The president cannot take the entire country to war by himself. We are not a dictatorship or a monarchy, we are a democratic republic. So, now is the majority of Congress, with their law degrees from ivy league schools, a bunch of simpletons too? Or is it just possible they examined the intelligence at the time and laid out a list of reasons to justify going to war?

 

[Sureboss]

The issue with North Korea is a different one altogether. They have a very, very big friend and neighbor with very, very big bombs as well as a surplus of population that they wouldn't hesitate to send to their deaths.

Barney?

------

Actually Saddam would have poisoned Iraqis, which he did, and was why he was given the death sentence.

I know that, but it was said he was a threat to us, wasn't he?

 

[FoolKiller]

I know that, but it was said he was a threat to us, wasn't he?

Yes, because he was believed to have been aiding al Qaeda by allowing training facilities in the country, meeting with memebrers, etc.

Much of this appears to have been bad intelligence, which Saddam did not help by putting on a tough guy act. As you can see in the link in my previous post though this would only cover two of the reasons listed. And his treatment of his own people was also a listed reason.

 

[Sureboss]

Those al Qaeda memebrers are an awful bunch, huh?

 

[FoolKiller]

Those al Qaeda memebrers are an awful bunch, huh?

They are the worst kind of terrorists. Can't find them anywhere.

 

[Sureboss]

It's like a big game of "Where's Waldo?". Although if they wore red and white striped suits they might not be so good...

 

[socomplayer2]

I am not going to post in this thread any more because everything I say adds fuel to a fire that is going to eventually burn me.