September 11th 2007

  • Thread starter Mark T
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Yea I ists and they us but more importantly they also killed.... no, massacred so many of our people who were just trying to earn a living and feed there families. I never even brought up blowing up the middle east in this thread. I apologized for my comments on the last 9-11 thread, its over.

I wasn't picking on you for saying we should blow up the middle east. I was yelling at the ones who think we should. I just don't think that the terrorist attitude is the right attitude for us to take. They targeted our country's population, when in reality they were probably mad at a specific group. We have no need to massacre or even want to massacre an entire innocent population.

Why is it wrong for us to hate the kind of people who are responsible for the worst single attack on our soil in hundreds of years if not ever?

The terrorists did it. We have every right to be mad at them.
 
I wasn't picking on you for saying we should blow up the middle east. I was yelling at the ones who think we should. I just don't think that the ist attitude is the right attitude for us to take. They targeted our country's population, when in reality they were probably mad at a specific group. We have no need to massacre or even want to massacre an entire population.



The ists did it. We have every right to be mad at them.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sorry, I get defensive when it comes to the 9-11 attacks.
 
I understand the point of view that sees 9/11 as some kind of retaliation against U.S. foreign policy. Where I TOTALLY disagree with it is how it was designed to kill as many civilians as possible. That's what woke me up about these terrorists. Freedom fighter my "you know what"! Whatever got them started, they are just murderers to me now.
 
meh it's over 5 years old, let it die, it happened and we grieved about it but why aren't there hundreds of forums about pearl harbor? because it happened and it's over with sure you can go to the pearl harbor and grieve for your relitives there but no one really makes these stupid chain letters about it. you people should just let it go, sure it happened, don't point and blame, grieve if you like but leave those who weren't affected out of it.

For example: the vast majority of the arab people, people who don't care, the germans, and the french.
 
I still get amazed when I see the events happening. Last night, I saw "Inside 9/11" and I had shivers down my spine for 2 hours straight, it's just unbelievable how big that operation was. To actually hijack 4 planes( or 5?), and let them crash with such presicion, makes me having nightmares on what terrorists are capable of...

Seriously, I actually went into the status where you're about to cry when I saw those planes crashing into the WTC. Especially when I heard everyone "OMG, they did it on purpose! You bastards!"

"Good morning New York, what was there this morning, is now gone..." This sentence by a newsman struck me with unbelievable astonishment, somehow...I can't just get it into my head that human beings are actually able to do something like this...



Meh, all my thoughts go to all New Yorkers, not only those who are dead, but all of the firemen and policemen for such an effort to save as many people as possible, the New Yorkers who had to watch this terror...:indiff:
 
I understand the point of view that sees 9/11 as some kind of retaliation against U.S. foreign policy. Where I TOTALLY disagree with it is how it was designed to kill as many civilians as possible. That's what woke me up about these terrorists.
Although I agree with this - that 9/11 certainly was a wake-up call to the United States that it could no longer afford to be so blasé about the terrorist threat it faced - it is also bitterly ironic that this would turn out to be the principal justification for war against Iraq.

Just last night, I watched a documentary about the search for survivors in the voids and rubble of the WTC, and to this day, the connection between Iraq and 9/11 is still being erroneously (and strongly) made. However, it's a travesty that this wake-up call (to a very real threat) was deliberately subverted and hugely exaggerated, especially where the 'clear and present danger posed by Iraq' was concerned. In reality, it seems that wake-up call was delivered (the attacks), half-heartedly addressed (the botched hunt for Bin Laden in Afghanistan) and then completely ignored and subverted into a justification to invade Iraq.

It is no lie to say that Bush brazenly used the 9/11 terrorist attacks to justify war against Iraq - despite there being no actual connection between the attacks and Iraq whatsoever. The bitter, even cruel, irony is that where no terrorist threat once existed in Iraq (if indeed any threat to the US existed at all), there definitely is a major terrorist risk to US interests in the Middle East from terrorists based in Iraq now. The sad fact is that the WTC attacks were a genuine terrorist atrocity, but the mistaken link between Saddam Hussein and his supposed sponsorship of international terrorism has caused a huge and very real growth in the terrorist threat faced by everyone in the region.

From a personal point of view, I'd go as far as to say this - that the memory and the dignity of those who died on 9/11 has been (to atleast some extent) dishonoured by the way in which their deaths have been used as an excuse to invade a country that had nothing to do with these events. Also, and much more significantly, the nature of the response to the attacks in general have done little to reduce the real threat of future attacks. That for me is the biggest shame, and although I say nothing about US foreign policy or the real reasons for invading Iraq, one thing I'm unrepentant about is that I believe George W. Bush and his neo-con cronies should hang their collective heads in shame for presiding over such an utter travesty - both in their complete ineptitude to respond quickly and firmly enough in Afghanistan, and for compounding this gross error by focusing on and demonising Saddam Hussein (who did a fairly good job of that all by himself)...

I agree in essence with Danoff that partisan politics are largely irrelevant here - however, whatever the party in charge of coordinating and carrying out the nation's response was, they had a responsibility to do it right, and 6 years down the line the verdict is looking more and more like a resounding FAIL for the Bush administration. Republican or Democrat, American or non-American, theist or athiest - we, the innocent civilians of this world, were shocked and disgusted by these attacks, and that's why we expect(ed) a focused and concerted response against those who planned and sponsored these terrible acts. But that is not what we got.
 
Well said Chris 👍

Is the world a safer place since the 'War on Terror' began? - I would say no.
 
I must respectfully disagree with this.

Would you tell Arabs that they should also take the blame for the invasion of Iraq, and in the end perhaps the Arab-Muslim world were the instigators that provoked that highly publicized attack?


M

I wouldn't tell the Arabs that, but are you also saying that Saddam was completely unprovocative? If nothing else, Saddam certainly made himself an easy target... (I do think the invasion was wrong though.)



Touring Mars, once again, I commend your contribution. Well said. 👍
 
Why is it wrong for us to hate the kind of people who are responsible for the worst single attack on our soil in hundreds of years if not ever?

You can't hate all the Middle Eastern people and you can not have the desire to kill them all either. A small group is making the whole group look evil.
 
I wouldn't tell the Arabs that, but are you also saying that Saddam was completely unprovocative? If nothing else, Saddam certainly made himself an easy target... (I do think the invasion was wrong though.)

Saddam handed the Bush administration all the excuses they needed to invade. Right or wrong, I don't think the US wouldn't be in Iraq right now if he hadn't played games with the no-fly zones and UN inspections. The administration would have had a much harder time playing to America's paranoia.

But Saddam was one person. One person who did some very, very bad things and helped some other people do some very, very bad things. The average Iraqi citizen was no more responsible for attacking Iran or Kuwait than your average American is responsible for propping up dictators and dropping bombs on Palestinians.

My real point was to show that it's unreasonable to blame "The West" for 9/11 anymore than it is to blame "Arabs" or "Muslims" for terrorism. It is collective guilt for the crimes of the few and I find it dangerous to adhere to such a philosophy.

I sometimes see statements like "the US brought 9/11 upon itself" and frankly, it makes me a little upset, because I can say with almost 100% certainty the people who died on that day bared no responsibility with whatever misery those 19 men thought they were avenging.

The true tragedy of 9/11 is that it enabled another cycle of violence of which Iraq is just another turn in the wheel.

And as eloquent as Chris's post is and as much as I agree with many of his points, I must also agree that Dan's post is right on as well: out of respect for the victims and their families, I would prefer threads about 9/11 to remain apolitical. I grew up in NYC and I sit less than 15 miles from Ground Zero as I write this; so I hold that day pretty close to my heart. I was going to refrain from posting because of this, but I could not resist replying to AMG's comments. So with that, I'll refrain from anymore poly-sci here.


M
 
My real point was to show that it's unreasonable to blame "The West" for 9/11 anymore than it is to blame "Arabs" or "Muslims" for terrorism. It is collective guilt for the crimes of the few and I find it dangerous to adhere to such a philosophy.


M

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying America/The West is to blame for the 9/11 attacks, I was saying that if things had been done differently maybe the situation would be better. With the support for Israel as it is though, we're doomed to not suceed.
 
but I could not resist replying to AMG's comments. M

Fair enough,
AMG.
There are always 2 sides to a coin and I believe the Western world should also take the blame. Governments want oil and will do whatever it takes to get it. Perhaps we were the instigators that in the end provoked this highly publicised attack. I dont approve of the attack but we surely must also look at our own actions.

I apologise for the fact that this post can be read differently. My intention was to say that both parties are to blame. Hence I used the word 'also'. Re-reading that sentence I now see that it doesn't convey the meaning of the word 'both'.

AMG.
 
My step-mum was in New York when this happened. It was very scary, and I still get goosebumps whenever I see the footage. But I'd have to agree with DWA: it's time to move on. As righteous as they are about it, even the Americans are slowly forgetting the details:

The Chasers War On Everything

(I know they would have had to ask loads of people before they found these people, but I still found it amusing.)
 
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