GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Michael Leary (@Terronium-12) on December 6th, 2018 in the Forza Motorsport 7 category.
Setting Your Wheel Up for Forza Motorsport 7's New Force Feedback System
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 30 comments
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
It's definitely an improvement on what went before but it's still not quite right. The big problem is the wheel self aligning. It's sluggish and just a little bit behind where it should be. This is most noticeable when correcting oversteer. Fellow member @Blue028 did a good Live YouTube vid the other night to explain it.
For anyone playing on PC. I recently got Forza EmuWheel working and it's a huge improvement https://forzatools.weebly.com/forza-emuwheel.html
For anyone playing on PC. I recently got Forza EmuWheel working and it's a huge improvement https://forzatools.weebly.com/forza-emuwheel.html
- 273
- Slovakia
- palqo
- DeliriousRex5
Well, I've already had FFB set up for real feel on my Fanatec CSW 2.5 and it was realistic (at least when I compare with my STi hatch), much better then GTS. So I can't really agree it was bad before.
On the other hand, this new FFB has the potential to be much better, doesn't feel good with default settings though. I'm missing the understeer FFB setting, which I had to have around 20 so there is a resistance buildup feeling before the front wheels loose grip and resistance in the wheel. This new FFB has the same problem, no resistance buildup when leaning on the front tires and the steering is just dull, no indication when the front wheels going to lose grip. Hopefully I'll be able to tune it with some new guide.
Forza Motorsport did sell itself very short compared to GTS. They had a product developed in cooperation with Fanatec, which when set up correctly, was more of a real driving simulator then GTS could dream of. And what did they do with it? A gamepad competition! PD has the FIA partnership, but if they made standard racing pods with Fanatecs like Sony has with Logitechs and did a PR campaign/events like GTS has, things would look a lot differently.
On the other hand, this new FFB has the potential to be much better, doesn't feel good with default settings though. I'm missing the understeer FFB setting, which I had to have around 20 so there is a resistance buildup feeling before the front wheels loose grip and resistance in the wheel. This new FFB has the same problem, no resistance buildup when leaning on the front tires and the steering is just dull, no indication when the front wheels going to lose grip. Hopefully I'll be able to tune it with some new guide.
Forza Motorsport did sell itself very short compared to GTS. They had a product developed in cooperation with Fanatec, which when set up correctly, was more of a real driving simulator then GTS could dream of. And what did they do with it? A gamepad competition! PD has the FIA partnership, but if they made standard racing pods with Fanatecs like Sony has with Logitechs and did a PR campaign/events like GTS has, things would look a lot differently.
Anyone got a good setup for the G920? The wheel feels incredibly light after the update. It was too light even before the update, even at 100% FFB level, now I can just steer with one finger. The FFB is much stronger in other games.
And why the hell do they suggest turning DOWN the damper scale and centering force? That makes it so light you can turn the wheel just by blowing on it. Do people actually play with such settings? Either my wheel is broken or everyone else has some really weak arms.
And why the hell do they suggest turning DOWN the damper scale and centering force? That makes it so light you can turn the wheel just by blowing on it. Do people actually play with such settings? Either my wheel is broken or everyone else has some really weak arms.
- 1,329
- US. North East region
Turning down the Damper sliders makes sense because, damper intentionally slows the wheel down. Making it unnecessarily heavy feeling.
If I do that the wheel starts wobbling left and right if I let go of it. I know I shouldn't be letting go of a car's wheel when driving but it shouldn't be wobbling like that. Tried a couple of setups I found on YouTube and it still didn't feel right.
So far I'm hating the new FFB.
So far I'm hating the new FFB.
- 1,329
- US. North East region
You're not alone. I am sure other people don't like the new FFB.
Continue adjusting the FFB sliders until the G920 feels to your liking then. If not then address all complaints on the correct channels.
https://forums.forzamotorsport.net/...ystem-Dec-4th---tell-us-what-you-think.aspx?=
I did think the FFB was a little light on my Fanatec CSR, but after raising it to 120, seemed to give it the kick that I was looking for. Now it's probably clipping more than a brand new mower and 1 month of watered grass.
I've been looking at the support page and I am going to give my settings the once over. Perhaps I may find a way to be able to feel where I need to steer in order to catch slides.
https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/360012736414-Wheel-Setup-and-Tuning
Continue adjusting the FFB sliders until the G920 feels to your liking then. If not then address all complaints on the correct channels.
https://forums.forzamotorsport.net/...ystem-Dec-4th---tell-us-what-you-think.aspx?=
I did think the FFB was a little light on my Fanatec CSR, but after raising it to 120, seemed to give it the kick that I was looking for. Now it's probably clipping more than a brand new mower and 1 month of watered grass.
I've been looking at the support page and I am going to give my settings the once over. Perhaps I may find a way to be able to feel where I need to steer in order to catch slides.
https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/360012736414-Wheel-Setup-and-Tuning
- 22
- United States
You're right it shouldn't be like that. It's just we live in an imperfect world, so a) there's always some lag between the tires generating forces and that force getting reproduced by the wheel's motors, b) the electric motors are not both fast and strong enough to keep the steering wheel under control.
I use a G25. I get wobbling as well in Forza and other games. The G920 really is just a glorified G27, which is from 8 years ago. It is not high-end anymore.
A few options: a) Buy a higher-end steering wheel like some Fanatec direct drive. b) Keep the forces strong, the damping low, and hands on the wheel. The FFB is easier to read, but there's wobble. c) Lower the overall forces, increase damping until you can leave the hands off. It will be harder to read the FFB though.
- 273
- Slovakia
- palqo
- DeliriousRex5
Shouldn't the center spring be now obsolete, when there is aligning torque setting? The wobble should not be there, but now I don't remember which part of FFB was responsible for that. In the video, he lets go of the wheel and it centers nicely and you should be able to do that in a racing game when FFB is set up correctly.
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Did you run the configuration utility and set the button config, run the utility to mute the wheel and leave it open, then run the emuwheel utility and click start and leave it open and then set up a new custom controller in Forza?
And thew wheel doesn't work when not running emuwheel and after you have deleted everything? You should be able to not run emuwheel and use the default Forza ffb. Something doesn't seem right with that.
They have a Discord server where the author posts https://discord.gg/qP4tVK
Try posting there, I'm sure they will be able to help.
Edit: Another vid from @Blue028 showing how the self aligning force in Forza is sluggish and delayed.
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- 874
- United Kingdom
Take Blues video with a pinch of salt. These are issues he is having, that I want deny. I am not experiencing these same issues on a T300RS.
Me drifting a 240SX around the ring using 1080° of wheel rotation.
From what I can see via youtube, I am not the only person having an easier time finding good settings.
EvlRabbit (They are drifting/driving rather good from my perspective, since the updated FFB hit)
Self aligning is working really well for me, not having any problems at all really. Wont lie though, I hated the update when it first dropped. But I am glad I stuck with it. I am still testing settings atm, but I am happy with what I have also. But racing is fun, and I feel very connected to the cars now. Having a blast drifting since the update also.
What I have found out, is that you cant just rely on mechanical trail, as Blue was doing in the video in the quoted post. You need to also have pneumatic trail in there also. Currently pneumatic trail is the higher setting on my setup, and I have started to see other Forza wheel users who drift using similar settings to what I have found.
I dont know what is going on with Blues setup, but the issues he is facing; may be partly the game and partly their setup. Its hard to tell really. Ive tried to help him figure this stuff out over on the Forza Forums, but he seems to have clammed up after making that video. So I dont know what is going on atm.
Either way, Emuwheel is a brilliant app. I have been able to test it myself, and Plato has done an amazing job on it. With regards to the new FFB in Forza, all I can suggest; is that people try it for themselves. And avoid using mechanical trail on its own. Make sure to balance it with pneumatic trail, and play around with the Align Torque scale.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
They are issues I have replicated with my setup. In a previous video he had both pneumatic and mechanical trail enabled with the same result. He explains why he disabled pneumatic trail in that one video. Easiest thing to do would be to post a video of the same tests with your wheel.
Self aligning Torque in FM7 feels sluggish and laggy compared to all the other sims I play. It has done since release and this update has not changed that no matter what settings I use. It’s perfectly possible to drive well with and even drift but it’s not natural and it doesn’t feel right. And most importantly it doesn’t react how it does in the real world as evidenced by @Blue028 video.
Self aligning Torque in FM7 feels sluggish and laggy compared to all the other sims I play. It has done since release and this update has not changed that no matter what settings I use. It’s perfectly possible to drive well with and even drift but it’s not natural and it doesn’t feel right. And most importantly it doesn’t react how it does in the real world as evidenced by @Blue028 video.
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- 874
- United Kingdom
The visual guide video? He only had pneumatic set to 20 in that video, I have it quite bit higher than that. I believe its around 175 atm. With Mechanical trail somewhere around 135. And I believe my align torque is around 150, with Force feedback scale around 65, and road feel at 30. Damper and centre spring are both at 0.
I dont have a tripod atm for my camera, as it broke when I moved house earlier in the year, or I would record a live video showing those things. Though I am a little surprised at you calling me out over this, considering ive only advised taking things with a pinch of salt; and agreed that Blue is having these issues. But also showing that some of us are not, and suggesting that people try for themselves. I figured that I had a helpful reputation in regards to using wheels around here, and only popped over to see if people needed any help figuring these things out. You yourself should know that ive never mislead anyone in regards to setting up and using wheels in Forza titles. Obviously I was mistaken in this regard.
Edit: And although if I did record live video of my wheel. You have to remember that I am running a T300, not a custom modded fanatec wheel as Blue is. I dont know what changes he has made to his wheel. Mine is how the T300 comes from the factory. Its not exactly a perfect apples to apples test.
The wheel EvlRabbit is using, is a G920. Figure that will be relevant, since I posted his video for the simple fact he has a wheel cam.
I dont have a tripod atm for my camera, as it broke when I moved house earlier in the year, or I would record a live video showing those things. Though I am a little surprised at you calling me out over this, considering ive only advised taking things with a pinch of salt; and agreed that Blue is having these issues. But also showing that some of us are not, and suggesting that people try for themselves. I figured that I had a helpful reputation in regards to using wheels around here, and only popped over to see if people needed any help figuring these things out. You yourself should know that ive never mislead anyone in regards to setting up and using wheels in Forza titles. Obviously I was mistaken in this regard.
Edit: And although if I did record live video of my wheel. You have to remember that I am running a T300, not a custom modded fanatec wheel as Blue is. I dont know what changes he has made to his wheel. Mine is how the T300 comes from the factory. Its not exactly a perfect apples to apples test.
The wheel EvlRabbit is using, is a G920. Figure that will be relevant, since I posted his video for the simple fact he has a wheel cam.
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- 874
- United Kingdom
@PzR Slim My reputation on these matters means too much to me to not do as you requested, and record footage of me testing this with my wheel visible. So I found a way around not having a tripod atm.
I ran at 900°, not my usual 1080°. As I believe Blue only uses 900° maximum with Forza.
Unlike Blue, I wanted to show the difference changing 2 settings would make. So I set Mechanical trail to 200 (Blue had this at 100), and Force Feedback scale I set to 70 (Blue had this at 200)
Testing this way did show a fault in the new force feedback system system, the force feedback just doesnt kick in till 10mph is hit. This is a problem, and I have tagged Chris Esaki (T10 creative director) and Forza_support on twitter, with a link to my video. I would not have found this fault, had you not challenged me to run Blues tests.
Baring that one issue I found however, everything else worked as expected for me. As you will be able to see in my own video, baring the FFB not kicking in until 10mph. Everything else is very similar to what Blue was experiencing with EmuWheel's custom force feedback.
I ran at 900°, not my usual 1080°. As I believe Blue only uses 900° maximum with Forza.
Unlike Blue, I wanted to show the difference changing 2 settings would make. So I set Mechanical trail to 200 (Blue had this at 100), and Force Feedback scale I set to 70 (Blue had this at 200)
Testing this way did show a fault in the new force feedback system system, the force feedback just doesnt kick in till 10mph is hit. This is a problem, and I have tagged Chris Esaki (T10 creative director) and Forza_support on twitter, with a link to my video. I would not have found this fault, had you not challenged me to run Blues tests.
Baring that one issue I found however, everything else worked as expected for me. As you will be able to see in my own video, baring the FFB not kicking in until 10mph. Everything else is very similar to what Blue was experiencing with EmuWheel's custom force feedback.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
That really isn't what I was doing. I posted some helpful advice to anyone experiencing similar problems to Blue, as I am, you then jumped in to say take those videos with a pinch of salt. It's great that you are not having these issues but I am so I'll continue to use means to correct it and offer solutions to others that are.
- 2,708
- United Kingdom
- Rikki_GTR
- IamValhalla
I read as far as this, so excuse me if my reply seems unnecessary but this is exactly how I felt as well. Turned on Forza after the FFB update and my G920 felt... utterly pathetic
Light and airy and fluffy. Had that been my first experience of FFB wheels I would have never bothered with them beyond day 1.
Tweaking the settings is a must. This setup feels ok, but expect some wheel shake on some of the cars at least. I haven't been able to completely get rid of it without completely killing the FFB:
However there's another thing that's bothering me. After the update the wheel seems more sensitive. Even at 900° I only have to turn it like 40° at most when racing. Anything more leads to understeer. How do people drive with anything under 900? The steering linearity setting doesn't respond the way I want it to. I was comparing driving an E46 M3 ingame on the Nurburgring to a video of the real thing and the driver of the real car definitely had to turn the steering wheel more than I did through corners. I'm used to having those extra degrees of steering for more precision around the middle so how can I get them back? The old FFB system seemed better in regards to this, especially on Normal steering, but now Normal/Sim doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
However there's another thing that's bothering me. After the update the wheel seems more sensitive. Even at 900° I only have to turn it like 40° at most when racing. Anything more leads to understeer. How do people drive with anything under 900? The steering linearity setting doesn't respond the way I want it to. I was comparing driving an E46 M3 ingame on the Nurburgring to a video of the real thing and the driver of the real car definitely had to turn the steering wheel more than I did through corners. I'm used to having those extra degrees of steering for more precision around the middle so how can I get them back? The old FFB system seemed better in regards to this, especially on Normal steering, but now Normal/Sim doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
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