Settings discussions
- Thread starter TheWizard
- 44 comments
- 2,067 views
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Well flat-out, you bring up some interesting points... In an odd way. 
(maybe un-intended as well)
The boombexus OLR school thread is actually from 2003, not 2004, so GT3 is the subject there.
Which does bring up the point that the OLR school may need an over-haul.
(but that's a lot of work for another time)
Regarding the Settings forum,
I found this thread.https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=65491&highlight=tranny+trick+transmission
But that brought up a good point for me...
The settings and tuning forum is a horrible spot to try speaking intelligently with people.
It only took 3 pages for that thread to be closed.
However, it did have some great content from both GT4 tuners and GT3 OLR racers (fast ones too!).
In the end I found that the discussion was inconclusive.
However, most people seemed to think the Tranny Trick in GT4 was not as usefull as it was in GT3.
Some people even went so far as to say it doesn't do a thing in GT4, while others said it depended on the type of tranny you personally use (auto vs manual).
(Btw, I think that auto vs manual thing may have validity since I've felt like the FD was the way to adjust for manual drivers and the auto was for auto drivers
)
In any case, I feel like the OLR school is a GT3 based idea for now.
The Settings forum is sick of the discussion and in-capable of holding a proper discussion on this particular issue.
So, that leaves us with just the WRS to host our tuning discussion needs.
Maybe we could actually edit the title of this thread and call this the "tuning discussion"?
Broaden the topic, re-title the thread. 👍
I would love that since tuning and settings may be a part of the WRS wiki project once that gets going.
Anyway, just my opinion, but the move and merge are both use-less.
I was all about a move until I realized the specifics of the situation...
Ah, the value of the WRS forum!
We could start our own rumble strip and things would still stay on topic, intelligent, care-free, entertaining, educational, and as always- Fun.
(maybe un-intended as well)
The boombexus OLR school thread is actually from 2003, not 2004, so GT3 is the subject there.
Which does bring up the point that the OLR school may need an over-haul.
(but that's a lot of work for another time)
Regarding the Settings forum,
I found this thread.https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=65491&highlight=tranny+trick+transmission
But that brought up a good point for me...
The settings and tuning forum is a horrible spot to try speaking intelligently with people.
It only took 3 pages for that thread to be closed.
However, it did have some great content from both GT4 tuners and GT3 OLR racers (fast ones too!).
In the end I found that the discussion was inconclusive.
However, most people seemed to think the Tranny Trick in GT4 was not as usefull as it was in GT3.
Some people even went so far as to say it doesn't do a thing in GT4, while others said it depended on the type of tranny you personally use (auto vs manual).
(Btw, I think that auto vs manual thing may have validity since I've felt like the FD was the way to adjust for manual drivers and the auto was for auto drivers
) In any case, I feel like the OLR school is a GT3 based idea for now.
The Settings forum is sick of the discussion and in-capable of holding a proper discussion on this particular issue.
So, that leaves us with just the WRS to host our tuning discussion needs.
Maybe we could actually edit the title of this thread and call this the "tuning discussion"?
Broaden the topic, re-title the thread. 👍
I would love that since tuning and settings may be a part of the WRS wiki project once that gets going.
Anyway, just my opinion, but the move and merge are both use-less.
I was all about a move until I realized the specifics of the situation...
Ah, the value of the WRS forum!
We could start our own rumble strip and things would still stay on topic, intelligent, care-free, entertaining, educational, and as always- Fun.
- 1,306
If the title needs to be changed, I do not have a problem with that 👍
I could add something to the first post that I made, too, as an introduction for the Tuning Discussion - or you can edit it, if you already have an idea of what could be said in there.
Plus, I think you don't need my authorization, either, since you are a mod...
The Wizard.
I could add something to the first post that I made, too, as an introduction for the Tuning Discussion - or you can edit it, if you already have an idea of what could be said in there.
Plus, I think you don't need my authorization, either, since you are a mod...
The Wizard.
- 1,347
- The Netherlands
- GTP_Undutchable
ballstothewallOk, I have done some testing.
The car used is a Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Ver.V'98
The track is the Las Vegas Strip
The tyres are Racing super-soft's
Reasons:
1 the car is 4 wheel drive
2 the track is perfect for testing acceleration (D'oh it's a drag strip!)
3 these tyres will provide the best grip and therefore take wheelspin/traction control issues out of the mix somewhat)
👍 For taking the time to test.
However, the drag strip is not the ideal place to test the 'tranny trick'. I can't say if it makes a big difference in GT4, but I always use that method to setup my gearbox. It makes the difference on the track, not on the drag strip.
Set final ratio to highest level, then auto to 1. Then put final back to what's usefull on the particular track. Then I adjust 6th gear to it's shortest value and 1st and 2nd to it's widest. 3,4,5 I put somewhere in between 2 and 6 then. This way, 2nd and 6th gear are as close as you can get them, resulting in the highest possible acceleration at higher speeds. And that's what you want at the track. You can easily adjust the separate gears to make the gearbox suitable for every corner on the track. 1st Gear will become redundant, except for the start in some cars.
Using this method, I create an almost perfect setup within 5 minutes. Only downside is that for a race of 2-3 laps, the first 2 gears might be too long for optimal acceleration from standstill and you'll lose too much time that you can't make up in the remaining laps. Otherwise, it's great
I hope you can understand something of my story, otherwise I'll have to describe it more carefully 💡
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
The thread in the settings forum is indeed pretty useless.
I'm OK to relabel this thread and extend its use to generic settings discussion, the risk being that all information become diluted, harder to find and then less relevant. I do like the Wiki idea though and it's definitely the way to go.
Perhaps we can just create a new thread that would be called 'Tuning discussion', and let this one be closed when its poll is over ?
I'm OK to relabel this thread and extend its use to generic settings discussion, the risk being that all information become diluted, harder to find and then less relevant. I do like the Wiki idea though and it's definitely the way to go.
Perhaps we can just create a new thread that would be called 'Tuning discussion', and let this one be closed when its poll is over ?
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
@ Hugo, That is what i do!
I use the tranny trick because i used it in GT3 and It allows me to get better gear ratios IMHO.
I use the tranny trick because i used it in GT3 and It allows me to get better gear ratios IMHO.
- 1,306
flat-out
The only problem with that is I never put a limit to the poll, as I thought this thread was not going to be closed
But we can always make it end by closing the thread when/as necessary 👍
Assuming that closing a thread closes the poll as well, obviously.
Man, it's a good thing I asked you if I could make this thread before actually posting it - that takes the responsibility off my shoulders
j/k of course...
The Wizard.
- 24,002
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I don't really see it as a 'trick' since no one seems to think that, in GT4 at least, it doesn't give any real time advantage over someone who has taken the time and effort to 'tune' their gears manually.
Where it does save time is off the track since you can optimize the gears to suit the track much quicker using the 'trick'.
I never seem to have much time these days to play GT4, and therefore little time to compete in the WRS
(-especially since the demise of my PS2 a couple of weeks back! 👎 ) What little time i did get, i wanted to spend it lapping, and less time tuning. The 'trick' simply gave me more opportunity to get a half decent lap in.
Where it does save time is off the track since you can optimize the gears to suit the track much quicker using the 'trick'.
I never seem to have much time these days to play GT4, and therefore little time to compete in the WRS
(-especially since the demise of my PS2 a couple of weeks back! 👎 ) What little time i did get, i wanted to spend it lapping, and less time tuning. The 'trick' simply gave me more opportunity to get a half decent lap in.
holl01
(Banned)
- 1,539
- GTP_D.Holland
IMHO, i have never even tested the tranny trick due to laziness But i know for a fact that it is totally useless in the long run, u want all ur gears to be as coherent and free flowing as possible, if u have really short high acceleration gears, and one stupidly out of proportioned 6th gear, ur speed will suffer.
and ballstothwall seems to have proved this fact:tup:
But i know for a fact that it is totally useless in the long run, u want all ur gears to be as coherent and free flowing as possible, if u have really short high acceleration gears, and one stupidly out of proportioned 6th gear, ur speed will suffer.and ballstothwall seems to have proved this fact:tup:
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
after three weeks of GTmode races (weeks 43,45 and 48) i think i finally have a definitive way of setting a car for those races...
i threw away all real life logics and started to learn from the game itself...
changing the brake balance (or just elevating the number both front and back) can be affective... can make the car a bit drifty, because of the lock of wheels... i never changed those settings before, but they actually work in some cars...
tranny trick is a waste of time, all you need is the auto setting, i´ll never bother to waste time again with individual setups for the tranny.
LSD is a good thing. i know a lot of people don´t buy the differential, but is a powerful weapon to reduce wheelspin, and even understear. if you change the LSD accel, and raise a bit, like i did with the silvia this past week, the car will not have that wheelspin coming out of turns in lower gears... only if you really hit the gas wrong... also, this makes the car less agressive with the power transfer, therefore, less understear...
the driving aids are also very usable... the TCS is the worst for me, because it limits the power too much, but i really like to put ASM. i tested with the BMW M3, and anything over 1 is already too much. 90% of the cars in GT4 tend to understear, so for those cars i just set ASM understear at 1 and that´s it... really a good thing... but i always have to be careful, if i drive a bad line, ASM will slow me down too much... even using this aid, you have to be careful with your lines, otherwise you will be slow because of the effects of the ASM...
the suspension tuning can be a bit difficult to understand, but after you pass that, you start to really like.
one thing i always wonder, was the basic setting for camber, 2.0/1.0 if you put those values to zero, the car will change directions faster, and wildly. so, once again, if you have a perfect line, then a camber set at 0 will be a good thing. but messing up with the line, you will accelerate while in bad angles, losing power and speed... that´s why the stock camber setting feels right, it allows you to drive the car straight foward, with less line changes... but for ultimate performance, i still think camber at 0 is better... worked in GT1 and GT2, i didn´t knew why, now i think i see what this setting does... not just in theory, but in the race itself.
if we are running at test course, i think the setup of a car would look like this:
4.0/4.0 (lowest number of the car in question)
55/55 (lowest number)
1/1
1/1
0.0/0.0
0/0
1/1
that´s the soft setup, nothing is taking away power...
increasing any of those values will only attempt to affect the handling of the car...
stabilizers, to me, work like a natural ASM... if you have a bumpy road like the nurb, and you are driving agressively, you can notice the roll bars slowing you down to increase the stability of the car... so in a track like this, since its harder to achieve a better line without agressive line changes, might work well to increase the balance of the car... but if we are running, lets say, high speed ring, i would never use stabilizer, it will only slow down the car...
the toe thing i only understood when i raced with the polyphony digital. the car cames with a stock value of -6 in the back, and its a bad handling car, turns too much.
after you change this value to zero, the car just transforms into a different vehicle. much better btw. negative values will make the car turn more, and positive values, makes the car turn less. i know a lot of people said this before, and i just came to a conclusion that this setup is usually 0/0 for me, i think there are better ways to change the understeary behavior of the car...
the spring rate can make the car so stiff, that it might increase understear... a low value for me was better in curb cutting tracks like seattle, but setting this too low will affect the stability of the car, makes it difficult to take turns at higher speeds... this is to me the toughest part of the suspension tuning. you can go either way, and have good results, i think depends on the driver´s style...
the dampers are very similar, and a higher value will steal power from your car. i never notice the real difference of bound/rebound in terms of performance in a track, but i just know that a lower value is always a good thing... i rather have lower damper values and increase a bit the spring rate than to do it the other way... lower damper = better performance, but worst handling in turns, so you have to correct that with the springs...
the last thing is the ride height, and i thought this was a lock. since GT1 lowering as much as possible was always the right thing to do, but now i see that a extreme high value, like i tried this week with the silvia, can also be affective. once again, lower value = better performance, but in some tracks, the curbs, elevations and constant bumps makes a lower ride slow, as the suspension has to work more if its set too low. so a higher number, while making the car less stable, will let you coast thru curbs... really helps if you trying to shave off tenths of a second...
anyway, i think that´s it. i wanted to give my opinion in this thread for a while, because i always have used setups that nobody likes... now that i consider myself fully adapeted to the strange settings of this game, i´m curious to see what other drivers think about those crazy ideas about setting... does any of that stuff also work for you guys?
i threw away all real life logics and started to learn from the game itself...
changing the brake balance (or just elevating the number both front and back) can be affective... can make the car a bit drifty, because of the lock of wheels... i never changed those settings before, but they actually work in some cars...
tranny trick is a waste of time, all you need is the auto setting, i´ll never bother to waste time again with individual setups for the tranny.
LSD is a good thing. i know a lot of people don´t buy the differential, but is a powerful weapon to reduce wheelspin, and even understear. if you change the LSD accel, and raise a bit, like i did with the silvia this past week, the car will not have that wheelspin coming out of turns in lower gears... only if you really hit the gas wrong... also, this makes the car less agressive with the power transfer, therefore, less understear...
the driving aids are also very usable... the TCS is the worst for me, because it limits the power too much, but i really like to put ASM. i tested with the BMW M3, and anything over 1 is already too much. 90% of the cars in GT4 tend to understear, so for those cars i just set ASM understear at 1 and that´s it... really a good thing... but i always have to be careful, if i drive a bad line, ASM will slow me down too much... even using this aid, you have to be careful with your lines, otherwise you will be slow because of the effects of the ASM...
the suspension tuning can be a bit difficult to understand, but after you pass that, you start to really like.
one thing i always wonder, was the basic setting for camber, 2.0/1.0 if you put those values to zero, the car will change directions faster, and wildly. so, once again, if you have a perfect line, then a camber set at 0 will be a good thing. but messing up with the line, you will accelerate while in bad angles, losing power and speed... that´s why the stock camber setting feels right, it allows you to drive the car straight foward, with less line changes... but for ultimate performance, i still think camber at 0 is better... worked in GT1 and GT2, i didn´t knew why, now i think i see what this setting does... not just in theory, but in the race itself.
if we are running at test course, i think the setup of a car would look like this:
4.0/4.0 (lowest number of the car in question)
55/55 (lowest number)
1/1
1/1
0.0/0.0
0/0
1/1
that´s the soft setup, nothing is taking away power...
increasing any of those values will only attempt to affect the handling of the car...
stabilizers, to me, work like a natural ASM... if you have a bumpy road like the nurb, and you are driving agressively, you can notice the roll bars slowing you down to increase the stability of the car... so in a track like this, since its harder to achieve a better line without agressive line changes, might work well to increase the balance of the car... but if we are running, lets say, high speed ring, i would never use stabilizer, it will only slow down the car...
the toe thing i only understood when i raced with the polyphony digital. the car cames with a stock value of -6 in the back, and its a bad handling car, turns too much.
after you change this value to zero, the car just transforms into a different vehicle. much better btw. negative values will make the car turn more, and positive values, makes the car turn less. i know a lot of people said this before, and i just came to a conclusion that this setup is usually 0/0 for me, i think there are better ways to change the understeary behavior of the car...
the spring rate can make the car so stiff, that it might increase understear... a low value for me was better in curb cutting tracks like seattle, but setting this too low will affect the stability of the car, makes it difficult to take turns at higher speeds... this is to me the toughest part of the suspension tuning. you can go either way, and have good results, i think depends on the driver´s style...
the dampers are very similar, and a higher value will steal power from your car. i never notice the real difference of bound/rebound in terms of performance in a track, but i just know that a lower value is always a good thing... i rather have lower damper values and increase a bit the spring rate than to do it the other way... lower damper = better performance, but worst handling in turns, so you have to correct that with the springs...
the last thing is the ride height, and i thought this was a lock. since GT1 lowering as much as possible was always the right thing to do, but now i see that a extreme high value, like i tried this week with the silvia, can also be affective. once again, lower value = better performance, but in some tracks, the curbs, elevations and constant bumps makes a lower ride slow, as the suspension has to work more if its set too low. so a higher number, while making the car less stable, will let you coast thru curbs... really helps if you trying to shave off tenths of a second...
anyway, i think that´s it. i wanted to give my opinion in this thread for a while, because i always have used setups that nobody likes... now that i consider myself fully adapeted to the strange settings of this game, i´m curious to see what other drivers think about those crazy ideas about setting... does any of that stuff also work for you guys?
- 7,956
- BradleyH131
Lately I have also been finding that the standard camber angles are way too high. I always put the rear camber as 0, on a RWD car.
However, I have found the opposite to you with the LSD. Whenever I attempted to use any type of LSD I have never been able to get a better time then not using it.
The ride height still seems strange to me in GT4. Common sense would think as low as possible, however, I've found in most cases pumping up the ride height and softening the springs will yield a much better car.
Someone may be able to answer me this? What is the brake balance actually balancing? Even with the max setting on Front and Rear, you don't stop any faster or lock your brakes. I assume it's a percentage of braking force so is 10/10 the same as 1/1, is 5/10 the same as 1/2? Why did PD just not put in a single bar with
100% Front --------------|--------------100% Rear
The last thing I found it that stock dampers (8/8, 8/8) are almost always too hard. Anything between 4-6 for the front and 5-7 for the rear seems to work on most cars.
However, I have found the opposite to you with the LSD. Whenever I attempted to use any type of LSD I have never been able to get a better time then not using it.
The ride height still seems strange to me in GT4. Common sense would think as low as possible, however, I've found in most cases pumping up the ride height and softening the springs will yield a much better car.
Someone may be able to answer me this? What is the brake balance actually balancing? Even with the max setting on Front and Rear, you don't stop any faster or lock your brakes. I assume it's a percentage of braking force so is 10/10 the same as 1/1, is 5/10 the same as 1/2? Why did PD just not put in a single bar with
100% Front --------------|--------------100% Rear
The last thing I found it that stock dampers (8/8, 8/8) are almost always too hard. Anything between 4-6 for the front and 5-7 for the rear seems to work on most cars.
i vote to keep it legal, but I personally don't like to use anything labeled as a "trick". IMHO It's kind of a cute toy in the same way that you can get the Escudo to "pop-a-wheelie". I say further more--blahblahblahblahblah, with of course: blah,blah and blah to be blah, blah blah.
use it if you want to, but don't go bragging about it.
use it if you want to, but don't go bragging about it.
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
I found spring rates has a MAJOR effect in over/understeer.
Get a car put front to 17 and rear to about 5. drive it, then swap it. front to 5, rear to 17. Major difference. Probably the biggest difference you will notice with any setting in GT4.
anti roll bars control the side to side motion of the car. If your car rocks a lot and is like a boat, stiffen these up. However it will be harder to transfer weight, which may make chaging direction harder.
I found dampers have a lot to do with grip levels of your car. Stiffer they are the less grip the car seems to have, but its also a bit of a handful over bumps.
Camber, im still not sure on, neither with toe.
Use the brakes to stop braking over steer, or snap oversteer under hard braking. Do this by either increasing front or deacreaseing the rear.
Get a car put front to 17 and rear to about 5. drive it, then swap it. front to 5, rear to 17. Major difference. Probably the biggest difference you will notice with any setting in GT4.
anti roll bars control the side to side motion of the car. If your car rocks a lot and is like a boat, stiffen these up. However it will be harder to transfer weight, which may make chaging direction harder.
I found dampers have a lot to do with grip levels of your car. Stiffer they are the less grip the car seems to have, but its also a bit of a handful over bumps.
Camber, im still not sure on, neither with toe.
Use the brakes to stop braking over steer, or snap oversteer under hard braking. Do this by either increasing front or deacreaseing the rear.
