Shokunins: One person, one car - crusading rant about the S1 Elise

[dbarrade]

I've been thinking about this for a while now and I suspect there are probably others with similar observations, so I thought I would document my feedback on the Series 1 Lotus Elise and I'd like to hear about others, hopefully someone might point these things out to the modellers at Polyphony and maybe some things could be made more efficient and some things could be fixed.

Here's the background that triggered this thread:

• Kaz says that he insists on the "One person, one car" policy, in which every single car must be modelled by one person only, from top to bottom, so that each staff member can reflect the qualities of Shokunins (職人), which is closely defined as "Craftsman" or "artisan" in English.

Sources (Taiwanese media): gamerhotline.tw udn.tw

There are "Approx. 110" employees at Polyphony Digital. But obviously, not all of them work on the car modelling, so let's check the GT6 End Credits. At 0:21, you can see there are 7 car modeling directors. At 0:43, you can see there are 12 car modeling chiefs. At 0:46, you can see there are 18 car modeling...people.... At 0:48, you can see there are 19 car modeling assistants. Let's just pretend they all model cars. So that's 56 people who model cars. Let's say one premium car takes 6 months (half a year) to completely model, then in one year, they should be able to finish 112 cars. That's not that bad in my opinion.

So let's look at one car and it's derivatives:

Lotus Elise '96:

From the front, looks pretty accurate, the only obvious thing missing is the hole for the tow hook in the centre of the front grill.

From the rear:

looking very good, except the space for the numberplate is too large and inside the rear grills there should be one rectangular red reflector and one white reverse light.

It turns out that most markets have the larger space for the number plate, with the exceptions of Australia and apparently Japan.

It also seems that cars built in the Malaysian factory and shipped to Australia also have two reverse lights and no fog light...

This shows the model is more accurate than I believed.​

The real thing for comparison:

Rear tyres of the Racing Elise:

So Yokohama are supposed to be partners, in GT6 you can choose the Yokohama Sports Medium Tyre which they actually make an OEM version for the Elise, an A048, of which you can see the tread pattern in the real image... why when this tyre is fitted to the car or as standard on the racing Elise, even though the preview when you purchase the tyre shows the right tread pattern, the car still has the Yokohama Comfort Tyre Tread Pattern?

I'm not sure why they did the cutouts and other things to the racing version, there are plenty of real world aero for an Elise, wings, diffusers, scoops, splitters, instead they make up some fantasy body kit:

They have replaced the front with that from the Exige, or Motorsport Elise and added carbon fibre canards.

Here you can see the tow hook. You can also see the factory options of driving lights, headlight covers and wheels that you should be able to add to the base model... but can't.

Note the clips on the bonnet, the Elise was designed right from the start, so the bonnet opens from the windscreen side and these clips are incorrectly placed at the hinge, meaning they would most likely break off when you pop the bonnet:

Sport 190 Elise:

This is a standard model, even though the Shokunin has already modelled all the differences from the premium Elise including the roll cage shown, headlight covers and driving lights on the premium Racing Elise.

It's hard to see from this angle, but unlike the premium models, they put the rear vision mirror in the centre, this is the wrong place and this is even stated in the manual of the car.

Why can't I put the Racing Elise wheels on this or the base model Elise?

If they added a decal, new wheels and a little spoiler, you would have another model, the Elise Sport 160:

Even if they didn't have this as another model, you should be able to add the OEM spoiler and wheels.

The Motorsport Elise:

This is a standard model again, and even though they already modelled the front, doors, inside and most of the roof, all they did for GT6 was make the Lotus Sport Decals higher resolution.

Yet again the attention to detail is lacking as they missed the feature that they even had in the text about the car in GT2 - the central driving position:

Once you've modelled the Motorsport Elise, all you have to do is make the rear cover perspex and move the driving position back and you have another model, a Lotus Exige:

Maybe I'm being picky, but if I was given one car to model I'm pretty sure I would notice these things, or at least fix them if someone pointed them out to me.

 

[xSNAKEx]

most of ur pics are broken.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

At least the alert system worked and alerted me that you quoted my brilliant math.

 

[dbarrade]

Sorry about the pics, Google Drive doesn't show you the direct link... is that better?

 

[Duphman]

This will be a terrible idea once Gran Turismo 7 rolls around. Unless they plan on taking some of the cars modeled in #DriveClub and placing them in GT7, I expect an incredibly small amount of car in GT7.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This seems to be more a personal rant about the inaccuracies of the Elise Mk1 model than Shukonin.

Incidentally your comment about the rear numberplate aperture is incorrect, the model in GT6 shows what most consider to be the "standard" shell with the Euro-plate sized insert.

Your comment about the tyre tread makes me think even more that this is a crusade... the treads come from the tyre model which is unlikely to be part of the car model.

 

[GalvoGT13]

This will be a terrible idea once Gran Turismo 7 rolls around. Unless they plan on taking some of the cars modeled in #DriveClub and placing them in GT7, I expect an incredibly small amount of car in GT7.

Nah, take all premium cars, already 443 cars. The premium cars are better than what we see ingame, they made the model and had to scale back the polygon count and detail so it could ''fit'' on the ps3. If its roughly 117 cars per year, lets say GT7 launches in late 2015, we would have like 680 cars.

 

[dbarrade]

I was only commenting on the car I know a little about and have paid most attention to. Are other cars much better then?

Interesting about the plate size, I never picked that up before.

The tread should show the Yokohama sports tyre tread then right? Like the one in the preview when you buy it?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Forza 5 uses the normal Forza 4 models during racing and only loads the highest LODs during AutoVista, painting, photomode etc. It's cleverly done and shows that Model1 resolution isn't everything.

There's no reason GT7 couldn't do something similar. The 'Standards' are the stuff of legend nowadays, I think most people would be happy if they were available in low-res forever as long as PD kept adding high-res cars/replacements.

 

[tam38gti]

As said, the number plate 'tub' aperture is correct for Europe, but some other markets also have double reverse lights IIRC

 

[dbarrade]

Well that's two new things I've learnt and props to the modeller then.

Please no one tell me the bonnet opens the other way in some countries.

 

[gambleboyen]

Forza 5 uses the normal Forza 4 models during racing and only loads the highest LODs during AutoVista, painting, photomode etc. It's cleverly done and shows that Model1 resolution isn't everything.

There's no reason GT7 couldn't do something similar. The 'Standards' are the stuff of legend nowadays, I think most people would be happy if they were available in low-res forever as long as PD kept adding high-res cars/replacements.

But they would do well to remove the pointless padding that are the hundreds of clones of boring cars.

 

[GalvoGT13]

But they would do well to remove the pointless padding that are the hundreds of clones of boring cars.

It's better to have them, than not have them, IMO boy

 

[Buck-O]

To be fair about the rear of the Elise, the license plate ring is dependent upon which market the car is sold in. You can find real world Elise with both styles of plate mount. The same is true for the rear lights. In some areas, they must have a rear fog light, the small red one. On some cars, like Mercedes, one of the rear running lights has a secondary element that gets brighter when the fog lights are on. Other cars, like the Elise, take one of the reverse lights, and make it a red fog light indicator. In countries were such things arent a requirement, its a standard reverse light. Chances are the car they had access to were european models which did not require the rear fog light.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Chances are the car they had access to were european models which did not require the rear fog light.

It's not that, Euro cars have had to show at least 1 rear fog light for many years and they're normally built into at least one of the clusters. Maybe the Exige's racing heritage dictated a separately wired old-school fog-light on a big brass button

 

[FussyFez]

Someone at PD is about to lose their job...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Someone at PD is about to lose their job...

Yup, pre-order cancelled for every game you can name in 120 seconds, although I'm not actually listening

Kind-of-on-topic... threads like this demonstrate why GT is such a great series, it continues to attract true car fans. Sure, that includes people whose taste in cars, colours and suspension angles simply baffles me, but the game is as good for that kind of car freak as it is for me.

I'm an MX5 fan and am immensely irritated that there are fewer than 50 in the game, but I quite understand that I represent 0.001% of the global community

 

[jimipitbull]

It seems you've opened a can of worms. I'm still waiting on some translations, but will try and paint the picture

Lotus Sutra --> Mayayana --> Branches of Buddhism --> Bodhisattva Vehicle Prophecy --> Lotus Sutra

Shokunin is a 2nd Dan spiritual connection to Benzaiten, the Japanese goddess of knowledge, art and beauty. She is the third daughter of the dragon-king of Munetsuchi.

A domain of evil he is. In you must go

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahāyāna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzaiten

 

[dbarrade]

lol

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

IMHO, YH A048 is equal to comfort soft in GT6

 

[Raggi Boy]

Very nit picky. But it was interesting. Can you analyse the mistakes of another car perhaps?

 

[NixxxoN]

Yep, as someone pointed out the number plate comment and the tyre comments are wrong and I think you should edit the post.

 

[tankuroded]

@dbarrade, try comparing with other car(s).

Also, people need to pay attention about this disclaimer at the game's startup. In fact, this notice have been since GT2: (not exact wording, proabably)

Cars may differ from actual looks and performance from their real life counterparts.

💡

 

[LVracerGT]

While a respect their beliefs and having one person to model one car for craftsmanship, IMO it's causing a lot of mistakes and slowing down the development process. The premium Mustang GT in GT5 is a perfect example. That car was horridly messed up. Wrong trans/gearing, wrong weight distribution, etc. The mistakes are continuing into GT6 as well.

This could also explain why we even have standards in the first place. If they had done things more efficiently, all the cars could have been modeled equally with interiors for everything (possibly).

Again, I respect their beliefs and customs, but IMO they need to get with the times. Just another example of poor development choices, IMO.

 

[zotobom]

This kind of seems like nitpicking IMHO

 

[Fogerty_Jr]

S1... the most beautiful Lotus ever made, IMO.
Ok, the recreation could be more accurate. I'd say you can't ask for the moon, but then PD throws a lunar rover mission in, and there I go screwed

 

[Buck-O]

It's not that, Euro cars have had to show at least 1 rear fog light for many years and they're normally built into at least one of the clusters. Maybe the Exige's racing heritage dictated a separately wired old-school fog-light on a big brass button

Just because it is normally built into the cluster on most cars, doesn't mean its that way in every car.

Having had my hands on more than one right hand drive Lotus Elise and Lotus Exige, I can assure you, that is the fog light. In my state, it must be converted to a reverse light, or disconnected, as individual colored lights not used for indicating, are reserved for emergency vehicles only.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just because it is normally built into the cluster on most cars, doesn't mean its that way in every car.

Having had my hands on more than one right hand drive Lotus Elise and Lotus Exige, I can assure you, that is the fog light. In my state, it must be converted to a reverse light, or disconnected, as individual colored lights not used for indicating, are reserved for emergency vehicles only.

I don't think we're disagreeing... I was just saying that it's unusual for a modern Euro-designed car to have a light that's separate from the cluster. I went on to speculate that it's a nice retro touch, I presume it's the same on the VX220 derivatives?

EDIT: No, only on the Elise... the GM VX220 (Vauxhall, Opel) had the Fog in the cluster. Much better, I'd want my light a LOT higher than the Elise has it if I was on the motorway!!

 

[sik180sx]

IMHO, YH A048 is equal to comfort soft in GT6

Sorry mate,but i gotta disagree,having owned a set and selling them to many a customer,while i was in the tyre industry,they are an entry level street legal track tyre,same goes for the yoko ad07 and ad08,which came stock on the exige.
They have grip galore and were no good till warm unlike a street tyre which get worse the warmer they get,definately a sport hard.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Comfort Soft grips better when they are warm in GT6, and now comfort tires has more grip overall than in GT5. I can even drive hard on comfort soft fitted on a 600HP Venom Viper GTS replica