Short Introduction and Suggestions for Writeup

[FRJR1992]

Hello GTPlanet, long time lurker here. I go by FRJR1992 on the PS3 and have been playing Gran Turismo since GT3. I love cars in general as well as many forms of automotive racing (F1 mainly, but have been getting into others). I must say, this site has a wealth of GT related knowledge, and I am always impressed by the news and updates and involvement it has with Polyphony Digital. Not to mention, the app kicks ass.

Alll things aside, I've been working on a writeup. I have a list of about 40 road cars (not racecars) I have been testing. They are among the highest performing in GT5's premium library, including some of the DLC cars. I want to test them completely stock, and see how they measure up to each other. So far, I've gathered all of the test data from Special Stage Route X, and all data has been put into a spreadsheet. In addition to this, I've been track testing them as well on four different tracks each, logging my best lap out of ~10 quality laps. I'm also recording my overall observations of each car for the writeup. So far, I've completed track testing for about five cars.

This being said, I have some questions for you guys, and would like your input.

1. Tracks:

Grand Valley Speedway - good mix of low/mid speed corners, a few elevation changes, balanced track.
Monza (with chicane) - high speed track known for its sweeping corners and chicanes which require braking precision.
Cote d Azur - lower speed track with extremely tight corners and hairpins
Suzuka (full track) - mid/high speed track with variety of corners and challenging sections, distinctive figure-8 layout.

What is your opinion on the variety of the tracks? I wanted to stay away from long tracks (no Nurburgring!) because logging the best out of about 10 laps would be extremely tedious. I wanted a variety of tracks and I think these are a good selection. I didn't want to do custom tracks because I want tracks that all of us can relate to and compare times, even though I do have some favorite custom tracks.

2. Methods used

a. Sports Soft Tires
b. All aids off, ABS set to 1, grip loss set to "real"
c. Cars are stock, except for oil change (I've logged the HP/TQ of all cars tested)
d. I am using a Driving Force Pro set to simulation.
e. I don't cut corners/run into walls/go off the track
f. All testing is done from cockpit view

Any suggestions?

3. Writeup

I am looking to put together some writeups. Let me know what you would like to see. Would you like reviews of cars? Would you like me to group a few cars at a time and have a "shootout" to see which is best? Perhaps a "new vs classic" or brand-specific write up? Would you like photos in each of the writeups? (I don't mind doing this but it may take a bit more time; I'll include it if you guys think it's worth it.)

I look forward to hearing from you all.

Edit:
Here's the list of car's I've been working with. It's by no means an exhaustive list, but these are all of the cars I am looking at doing now. If I finish these, I'd be glad to test some more.

Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4
Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SV
Lamborghini Murcielago LP 640
Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4
Nissan GTR Black Edition
Nissan GTR Spec-V
Nissan GTR
Enzo Ferrari
Ferrari 458 Italia
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Ferrari 599
Ferrari F430
Ferrari California
Ferrari F40
Aston Martin DB9
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
McLaren F1
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes Benz SLS AMG
Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren 19"
Mercedes Benz SL 55 AMG
Mercedes Benz C 63 AMG
Ford GT
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5)
Chevrolet Camaro SS '10
Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro
Audi R8 4.2 FSI R tronic
Audi RS 6 Avant
Lexus LFA
Lexus ISF
BMW M5 '08
BMW M3 (E92)
Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR
Dodge Viper SRT10
Dodge Viper GTS
Dodge Challenger SRT8
TVR Tuscan Speed 6
TVR Tamora
Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione
Jaguar XKR Coupe '10
Maserati GranTurismo S
Lotus Espirit V8
Honda NSX Type R

 

[hairystig]

Midfield Raceway

????

 

[FRJR1992]

@hairystig - Grand Valley - thanks for pointing that out! I was in GT4 mode when I wrote that - I do miss that track.

 

[hairystig]

@hairystig - Grand Valley - thanks for pointing that out! I was in GT4 mode when I wrote that - I do miss that track.

Ok I miss it too.

 

[dixonbaps]

Turn off ABS.

 

[Ryk]

Luke looks to the targeting device, then away as he hears Ben's voice.

BEN'S VOICE: Trust your feelings Luke, Turn the ABS off.
Luke's hand reaches for the control panel and presses the button. The AntiLock Braking device deactivates.

INTERIOR: MASSASSI OUTPOST -- WAR ROOM.
Leia and the others stand watching the projected screen.

BASE VOICE: (over speaker) His ABS 's off. Luke, you switched off your Antilock Braking system. What's wrong?

LUKE: (over speaker) Nothing. I'm all right.

---
I'd list how many miles a car has - a factory fresh new car *should* have a ncie stiff chassis, an old tired saggy car with more Miles than the USS Nimitz could well have an effect on the handling of a car (Which may be an advantage) - I suggest a back to back test of an Old and New version of the same car... Perhaps refesh the engine so the only test will be to compare the effect a worn chassis has.

Good luck.
And may the Force Feedback be with you

 

[Samus]

Don't turn off ABS.

 

[FRJR1992]

Haha Nice response. I've been deliberating whether to leave ABS at 1 or turn it off. I figured that most of these cars have this feature so it would be more realistic to leave it on. I'm not sure though.

As for the mileage, all cars have been purchased recently, and are "virgin cars". I don't think any have more than 100 miles on them, maybe a bit more after all testing is complete. I'll make a point to note the mileage of the cars after the writeups.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Good luck
Check out my write-ups, links found in my signature 👍

Looking forward to seeing what you can do!

 

[FRJR1992]

Good luck
Check out my write-ups, links found in my signature 👍

Looking forward to seeing what you can do!

I've actually been reading some of your work, and I must say it's part of what inspired me to do this. Really good stuff.

 

[Samus]

Haha Nice response. I've been deliberating whether to leave ABS at 1 or turn it off. I figured that most of these cars have this feature so it would be more realistic to leave it on. I'm not sure though.

As for the mileage, all cars have been purchased recently, and are "virgin cars". I don't think any have more than 100 miles on them, maybe a bit more after all testing is complete. I'll make a point to note the mileage of the cars after the writeups.

My comment was more really sarcasm because I'm tired of people telling others to turn ABS off. My genuine comment would be to do it however you want, not what other people think you should do. If you want ABS 1 use ABS 1.

 

[Spagetti69]

Don't turn off ABS.

That leads to the Dark side.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This being said, I have some questions for you guys, and would like your input.

1. Tracks:

Grand Valley Speedway - good mix of low/mid speed corners, a few elevation changes, balanced track.
Monza (with chicane) - high speed track known for its sweeping corners and chicanes which require braking precision.
Cote d Azur - lower speed track with extremely tight corners and hairpins
Suzuka (full track) - mid/high speed track with variety of corners and challenging sections, distinctive figure-8 layout.

What is your opinion on the variety of the tracks? I wanted to stay away from long tracks (no Nurburgring!) because logging the best out of about 10 laps would be extremely tedious. I wanted a variety of tracks and I think these are a good selection. I didn't want to do custom tracks because I want tracks that all of us can relate to and compare times, even though I do have some favorite custom tracks.

2. Methods used

a. Sports Soft Tires
b. All aids off, ABS set to 1, grip loss set to "real"
c. Cars are stock, except for oil change (I've logged the HP/TQ of all cars tested)
d. I am using a Driving Force Pro set to simulation.
e. I don't cut corners/run into walls/go off the track
f. All testing is done from cockpit view

Any suggestions?

3. Writeup

I am looking to put together some writeups. Let me know what you would like to see. Would you like reviews of cars? Would you like me to group a few cars at a time and have a "shootout" to see which is best? Perhaps a "new vs classic" or brand-specific write up? Would you like photos in each of the writeups? (I don't mind doing this but it may take a bit more time; I'll include it if you guys think it's worth it.)

I look forward to hearing from you all.

First, good for you for taking on this task. It's an ambitious project and I hope you enjoy it. Here is my input.

1. I would probably choose only 2 tracks. A medium length track like Deep Forest or Trial Mountain that pushes a chassis to it's limit with dips, bumps, undulations, cambered corners and off balance braking and cornering. Testing here will translate well to the full Nurb Track without having to drive the big track along with both versions of Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, Eiger etc.

The second track I would choose would be one of the longer, high speed tracks like Monza, Road Course Indy etc. These tracks will test the raw power, top speed and heavy braking abilities of most cars. Testing here will translate well to Suzuka, Grand Valley, Daytona Road, etc.

Testing at these two types of tracks will translate into most every track in the game, with a couple of small exceptions.

2. As far as the tires go, I'd suggest one of two things. Either stock tires, or fixed tires for certain PP levels. Say SS tires for 550-600PP, SM's for 500-549PP, SH for 450-499 PP or some variation of that. Avoid race tires at all costs on anything but a race car.

3. I'd also suggest grouping the cars in some way. My suggestion would be based on PP because it's the easiest to do with the power limiter and because most online racing is either PP based or one make where PP doesn't matter. Where you group the cars is up to you but certain natural groupings should be apparent. You might have 6 cars for example from 475 to 495PP. Why not just use the power limiter to equate them all to 475PP? So much easier to compare laptimes when the cars are equated in some way. You can't compare laptimes of cars with 455, 460, 464 and 469 PP.

As far as car choice goes that's up to you, but if you want for the GTP audience to get the most out of it, I'd suggest sticking to the most popular choices at first, both Premium and Standard. A grouping might include the BMW M5, M3 CSL and GTR, Jags, Astons, Alfa Competizione, etc.

 

[Ryk]

May be best to leave ABS on. I find running cars with no driver aids amplifies any handling issues, and how Ryk's Big bag of Driving Talent is pretty empty now.

That said, if you find a car you really like, why not expand the test for your favourite. Run with No ABS, Have a run with Harder tyres, Maybe even, (Better not type this too loud) Comfort tyres.

Explore the game. Why not try ABS 3 or ABS 5 (Not ABS6 - alot of ABS1 cultists get angry when you bring up ABS=6) - Same for Traction control. Have fun, put some laps down. But with ABS and TCS off you get to play with a V8 powered black marker pen on the track.

 

[FRJR1992]

Alright, I'm going to post the spreadsheet results of my Special Stage Route X tests with all of the cars above in a new thread. This list will be added on to over time, and a link to that thread will be in my sig.

Then I'll start on a write up soon. I've got lots of ideas.

I'm thinking a British lightweight comparison between the TVR Tamora, TVR Tuscan, and the Lotus Espirit V8.

I was also thinking about an early 2000's shootout between the American super sports - The Viper GTS vs the Corvette Z06

Maybe something along the lines of stock vs tuned, except between the TC DLC cars and their production equivalents (I have my sights set on the Mazda RX-7 and the Miata)

Perhaps a Japanese vs Euro FF battle using cars with ~400-430 PP.

*off to do some track testing*

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Turn off ABS.

Why is it that people like you feel the need to tell others what aids to use in the game. Why don't you let them decide what aids they want to use. And for the record, yes, I can drive with no ABS when the situation warrants it but I don't go around telling people that they should also turn off all aids. Give it a rest for pete's sake.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I've actually been reading some of your work, and I must say it's part of what inspired me to do this. Really good stuff.

Well thank you I'm glad to hear it 👍

 

[dixonbaps]

Why is it that people like you feel the need to tell others what aids to use in the game. Why don't you let them decide what aids they want to use. And for the record, yes, I can drive with no ABS when the situation warrants it but I don't go around telling people that they should also turn off all aids. Give it a rest for pete's sake.

I wasn't telling him what to do. Don't me wrong but It says in his original OP "Any suggestions" So I suggested turn off ABS. He doesn't have to. His choice completely, just my suggestion.

 

[FRJR1992]

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm open to all suggestions!

As far as the tires go, I'd suggest one of two things. Either stock tires, or fixed tires for certain PP levels. Say SS tires for 550-600PP, SM's for 500-549PP, SH for 450-499 PP or some variation of that. Avoid race tires at all costs on anything but a race car.

@Johnnypenso - I think I'll use a variation of your suggestion about fixed tires for certain PP levels. I'll definately stay away from racing tires for production road cars

Also, would you guys mind if in the reviews, some of the cars have been painted? I'll try and keep the colors consistent with the Make of the car.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Hello GTPlanet, long time lurker here. I go by FRJR1992 on the PS3 and have been playing Gran Turismo since GT3. I love cars in general as well as many forms of automotive racing (F1 mainly, but have been getting into others). I must say, this site has a wealth of GT related knowledge, and I am always impressed by the news and updates and involvement it has with Polyphony Digital. Not to mention, the app kicks ass.

Alll things aside, I've been working on a writeup. I have a list of about 40 road cars (not racecars) I have been testing. They are among the highest performing in GT5's premium library, including some of the DLC cars. I want to test them completely stock, and see how they measure up to each other. So far, I've gathered all of the test data from Special Stage Route X, and all data has been put into a spreadsheet. In addition to this, I've been track testing them as well on four different tracks each, logging my best lap out of ~10 quality laps. I'm also recording my overall observations of each car for the writeup. So far, I've completed track testing for about five cars.

This being said, I have some questions for you guys, and would like your input.

1. Tracks:

Grand Valley Speedway - good mix of low/mid speed corners, a few elevation changes, balanced track.
Monza (with chicane) - high speed track known for its sweeping corners and chicanes which require braking precision.
Cote d Azur - lower speed track with extremely tight corners and hairpins
Suzuka (full track) - mid/high speed track with variety of corners and challenging sections, distinctive figure-8 layout.

What is your opinion on the variety of the tracks? I wanted to stay away from long tracks (no Nurburgring!) because logging the best out of about 10 laps would be extremely tedious. I wanted a variety of tracks and I think these are a good selection. I didn't want to do custom tracks because I want tracks that all of us can relate to and compare times, even though I do have some favorite custom tracks.

2. Methods used

a. Sports Soft Tires
b. All aids off, ABS set to 1, grip loss set to "real"
c. Cars are stock, except for oil change (I've logged the HP/TQ of all cars tested)
d. I am using a Driving Force Pro set to simulation.
e. I don't cut corners/run into walls/go off the track
f. All testing is done from cockpit view

Any suggestions?

3. Writeup

I am looking to put together some writeups. Let me know what you would like to see. Would you like reviews of cars? Would you like me to group a few cars at a time and have a "shootout" to see which is best? Perhaps a "new vs classic" or brand-specific write up? Would you like photos in each of the writeups? (I don't mind doing this but it may take a bit more time; I'll include it if you guys think it's worth it.)

I look forward to hearing from you all.

Edit:
Here's the list of car's I've been working with. It's by no means an exhaustive list, but these are all of the cars I am looking at doing now. If I finish these, I'd be glad to test some more.

Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4
Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SV
Lamborghini Murcielago LP 640
Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4
Nissan GTR Black Edition
Nissan GTR Spec-V
Nissan GTR
Enzo Ferrari
Ferrari 458 Italia
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Ferrari 599
Ferrari F430
Ferrari California
Ferrari F40
Aston Martin DB9
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
McLaren F1
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes Benz SLS AMG
Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren 19"
Mercedes Benz SL 55 AMG
Mercedes Benz C 63 AMG
Ford GT
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5)
Chevrolet Camaro SS '10
Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro
Audi R8 4.2 FSI R tronic
Audi RS 6 Avant
Lexus LFA
Lexus ISF
BMW M5 '08
BMW M3 (E92)
Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR
Dodge Viper SRT10
Dodge Viper GTS
Dodge Challenger SRT8
TVR Tuscan Speed 6
TVR Tamora
Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione
Jaguar XKR Coupe '10
Maserati GranTurismo S
Lotus Espirit V8
Honda NSX Type R

Just FYI: Those modes (Amatuer, Simulation, and Professional) do not work for your wheel. Those modes are only available for the highlighted wheels when that option is selected.

 

[AERO_HDT]

I'd like to see much harder tyres on cars. Soft tyres increase grip massively and can make an average car seem decent, even brilliant in some circumstances. By the same token, they can also make an average driver feel decent, even brilliant...

I'd like ABS off as well. It's a divisive subject it seems... just a suggestion FRJR...

And as Johnnypenso said, Trial Mountain / Deep Forest are two circuits that any reviewer worth their salt should incorporate into their tests. The undulation of either of these circuits is a very good indication of how the car would fare on the 'Ring and really highlights handling issues.

I'd also love to see some non-premium cars tested too. Just because they don't have a cabin view doesn't mean they're not worthy of testing!

Keep up the hard work.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I wasn't telling him what to do. Don't me wrong but It says in his original OP "Any suggestions" So I suggested turn off ABS. He doesn't have to. His choice completely, just my suggestion.

I appologise. I overlooked where he was asking for suggestions on that. It just seems to be an epidemic lately with people telling others to turn off ABS without them asking for that advice. Lately it seems, if you drive with ABS 1, you're either considered a noob or just someone who lacks any driving skill at all. Again, my appologise to you.

 

[FRJR1992]

I'd like to see much harder tyres on cars. Soft tyres increase grip massively and can make an average car seem decent, even brilliant in some circumstances. By the same token, they can also make an average driver feel decent, even brilliant...

I'd like ABS off as well. It's a divisive subject it seems... just a suggestion FRJR...

And as Johnnypenso said, Trial Mountain / Deep Forest are two circuits that any reviewer worth their salt should incorporate into their tests. The undulation of either of these circuits is a very good indication of how the car would fare on the 'Ring and really highlights handling issues.

I'd also love to see some non-premium cars tested too. Just because they don't have a cabin view doesn't mean they're not worthy of testing!

Keep up the hard work.

Thanks for the input. I'll definately try to incorporate those circuits. Lots of elevation changes, and a good variety of corners.

As for tires, it seems as if the popular demand calls for the use of harder tires, and I agree with their reasons. Most of my write-ups will be comparative, so I will most likely be testing either cars of similar PP. Most of the cars listed above call for SH. I suppose I'll have to update my thread detailing the SS Route X tests to accommodate for different tires, as all of those were tested with SS tires. That'll come in time 👍, but until then, you'll at least know some figures of these cars with SS tires.

I have decided to leave ABS on, but at 1. I'll explore the possibility of no ABS later.

I'll look into some standard cars as well; they definitely won't be left out. These will surely be used in some of the "old vs new" ideas I have.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Good to hear! A test of high end performance cars without a Zonda or a Veyron (ha - don't shoot!) would be a little lacking.

At the end of the day, stick to what makes you comfortable, whether it be SS tyres or not. No ABS increases your margin for error and with so many cars, time is a crucial factor. I know I certainly wouldn't want to be testing an RUF CTR a thousand times over around a circuit like Monza!

 

[dixonbaps]

I appologise. I overlooked where he was asking for suggestions on that. It just seems to be an epidemic lately with people telling others to turn off ABS without them asking for that advice. Lately it seems, if you drive with ABS 1, you're either considered a noob or just someone who lacks any driving skill at all. Again, my appologise to you.

No need. 👍 It's all good. I know where you're coming from.