Should failing football clubs go bust?

  • Thread starter Liquid
  • 43 comments
  • 2,689 views

Liquid

Fission Mailed
Premium
29,832
Slovakia
Bratvegas
GTP_Liquid
Hartlepool chairman thinks so

Now, those of you who like association football, get involved in this. For those of us who support lesser/lower league clubs it's very much a hot topic.

We all know about Portsmouth's well documented financial woes where just their staff wages/salaries, not even their total expenditure, was 130% of their revenue. In any other industry this would be classed as serious financial mismanagement and said company would fold.

I can understand the point that the Hartlepool chairman is trying to make, but as a fan of a team that has had dreadful boardroom mismanagement since 1998, I'm quite sympathetic to keeping, or trying to keep clubs afloat because it's unfair on the players, the coaching staff and the fans.

For the vast number of you who don't know about the situation, here's a brief timeline of the financial/boardroom woes of Wrexham FC; sold to unscrupulous businessman in 1999, who was in fact just a frontman for an even more unscrupulous businessman whose only interest in the club was the stadium, which he wanted to convert into a Homebase. Zero investment and extortionate rent against our own stadium via an umbrella/holding company saw us become the first club to fall foul of the Football League's administration rules. 10 points deducted, relegation to League Two. The club was given an eviction notice at the end of this season (2004/05) and was weeks away from being homeless and facing liquidation until a High Court judge ruled that our chairman had acted improperly and the club remained safe, but in millions of pounds of debt. New owners come in, and have big plans to renovate the stadium. A likely story; relegation to the Conference was inevitable. Crusaders RFC begin groundsharing and another holding company rakes in all the club's revenue. One week before the start of this season, the club was so desperate that it was increasingly likely that we would be expelled from the league due to not offering the Conference a deposit of assurance. The fans, yes the fans, had a regional whipround and raised £100,000 in just 48 hours and the club was saved, literally hours from the deadline. An incredible feat for a club in the 5th division, and based in a not-so-affluent area of the country. The club was recently sold to a fans' trust, but uncertainty remains over revenue streams.

This is just one example. In fact, the Conference is a graveyard for former football league teams who ran out of money, in addition to being the place of death of six teams in six years. Since 2006, Canvey Island, Scarborough, Grays, Halifax Town, Chester City and Rushden & Diamonds have all gone out of business. (Not including Boston's FA-imposed double relegation from League Two to the Conference North and the general financial woes/plight of Stockport County and Luton Town).

And even now, this week, there are serious, serious doubts over Kettering Town, who have just nine players, and Darlington, who recently sacked all of their playing and coaching staff.

---

Something does have to be done about overspending, and poor accounting in football. But is simply leaving the current weakest clubs to rot and die the right answer?

Interestingly, despite their chairman's comments about letting clubs go bankrupt, Hartlepool United have offered to play in a fund-raising friendly against local rivals Darlington.
 
As a pompey fan, the whole saga for the last 3 or 4 years has been, well you couldn't make it up. More owners than managers, some never existed, administration, out of administration, then back into administration.
It now appears we owe the taxman £1.6 million, we still owe the creditors their money, and we only have enough cash to last until the end of January.
It would make sense , just to fold the club, sell the ground to pay off the debts, and start from the bottom. At least it will be a clean slate.
 
That would mean an extra space in the Football League, which would currently go to... Wrexham! Coincedences, eh?

Leeds. Wimbledon. Bradford. Wrexham. Portsmouth. Plymouth. Luton. Stockport.
It doesn't end, does it?
 
I find it quite sad when clubs get into this kind of situation. As I live close to Plymouth, even though I don't support them (born on the blue side of Bristol 👍 ) The mess they were in was pretty bad. Around 17 million pounds in debt, they were on the verge of going out of football.

They were battling for Premiership play off places not to long ago, now they are just out of the league 2 relegation zone. They managed to sort themselves out a bit, out of administration and are trying to win back the support of the locals.

If there is really no interest in a club that's on it's way out, then I think folding would be the sensible option. But many clubs in hard times have good support behind them and I'd like to see them fight to turn it around.
 
Portsmouth clearly have a lot of support, fan base wise.

But Darlington have been placed in administration for the 3rd time in 9 years. Unbelievable. And where did their problems start? When they built a 20,000 all-seater stadium out of nowhere, for no reason, with almost no money and no future ambition.

That, I think it's safe to say, is very poor foresight on behalf of the board at the time.
 
Answer to original question: Yes.

Just look at soccer in the US. Miami Fusion? We had Carlos Valderrama, and we still went bust.
 
Soccer, and sport generally in the US is a slightly different matter.

You guys have franchising, something which potentially devalues a club in my opinion. We have MK Dons following that wonderful model.
 
In some cases, it might make financial sense to go bust and start again, Wimbledon providing an excellent example of what can possible happen if a club chooses to go down that line. However, losing clubs from football is never a good thing, so I would tend to disagree with your question, though there are exceptions to the rule, as I have mentioned. Sometimes it's worth struggling on.
 
I must be one of the few people who take MK Dons as a continuation of the old Wimbledon.

It's a travesty, and a complete injustice against the fans, but... the team moved stadium. It happens. The team changed his name. This also happens. The players, the position in the league pyramid, all stayed the same.

I'm not saying I approve of what happened, but I look at AFC Wimbledon as being like FC United. And they've done brilliantly, too.
 
It's a business like an other. If you can not pay, you go bust.

States have an issue with "Bread and games" though, it might lead to social unrest, protests, etc....
But I would rather have states would be above that.
 
Personally, I think if a football club is in financial mis-management, they should go bust if things are that bad.

Think about it, football is big business. Businesses rise and falls. You take risks, you have to face the concenquences as well. Additionally, getting help from the government is a bit shameful as well as you're basically admitting that the club is an idiot and cannot manage their finances or agree to pay cuts or whatever to reduce their costs.

Football should be about the game, rather than high salaries and impossible bonuses.

Basically, I think football clubs should go back to their roots and invest in the game itself, rather than constantly achieving multi-million quid roster of paid players who, basically, just paid to kick a ball in the net on a weekend.
 
Football clubs should all be sold to fans groups (with legislation to force it to happen). Where none are present, a board of fan-elected members will handle the club until the owners of said club are paid its market value (or some idea along those lines). Clubs are not retail outlets, or mining companies, they are centres of culture and the very situation where (at one time) Manchester United were suddenly set to go bust thanks to some unknown Americans was a huge sign that football has taken a very wrong turn somewhere. Look at Barcelona for an example of things done right.

Once a club has transitioned into fan ownership, then the new rules (regarding spending within means) can be properly enforced, and the football world can sustain itself properly, the fans get to run their clubs and all is well.
 
Yeah, that's what the Green Bay Packers do/did. Any time they need to build some new thing for the stadium, they sell shares to the public/fanbase. All season ticket-holders are shareholders.
 
And Portsmouth go into administration for the 2nd time in 2 years. Just fold the club please, I would look forward to a climb up the leagues.
 
MazdaPrice
Rangers have started administration procedures too. -10pts await.

Slightly more of an issue for portsmouth that -10 points than Rangers, Rangers will still survive, Portsmouth it's unlikely for them to not get relegated
 
No offence to Portsmouth, but it would leave a bigger hole in the footballing world if Rangers went bust.
 
Precisely, Rangers are vying for the top spot in Scottish football year in year out and Portsmouth sans one FA Cup run really don't have quite the same history or worth as Rangers
 
No offence to Portsmouth, but it would leave a bigger hole in the footballing world if Rangers went bust.

Precisely, Rangers are vying for the top spot in Scottish football year in year out and Portsmouth sans one FA Cup run really don't have quite the same history or worth as Rangers

Maybe not to you, but to Portsmouth fans it will.
 
dhandes
Maybe not to you, but to Portsmouth fans it will.

That's true indeed, but I as a neutral (and I suspect Mazda is one too) feel that Rangers is more of a loss to the game than Portsmouth. If I was a fan, obviously my feelings would be somewhat different, but from my perspective losing Rangers would be worse.
 
Maybe not to you, but to Portsmouth fans it will.

Which is why my comment was prefaced with the damage limitating 'No offence'.

It's sad when any club goes bust. I was genuinely sad when Chester City went bust. They were our absolute #1 biggest rivals. Things just aren't the same without them. Incidentally, their successor club Chester is on the rise, but it's not quite the same, and harsh for the fans to start up again.

dhandes
Just fold the club please, I would look forward to a climb up the leagues.

Really? Would it not be better for the club to fall down to say, League Two and regroup rather than completely folding and reforming a new club in the Hampshire Premier Division One? (Or whatever the approximation is).
 
Probably not, as we will probably be in the same situation in another years time. The club is a shambles from top to bottom. But it is still my club.
 
Also, should clubs that are in debt and owe millions to the taxman be allowed to buy players?

Anyway, Rangers are currently 2nd in the SPL. A 10 point deduction will see them in, dah dah daaaaah, 2nd.
 
The most basic answer to this situation is that it's simply wrong. I just wonder when they'll finally have to do something about the debt, and how it will work itself out.
 
They do what most clubs do, overspend and build up massive amounts of debt, then hope that the Television revenue increases to match the overspend.
Then hope a sugar daddy appears to keep it going, or go into administration and screw all the creditors over big time.
 
Gift Celtic the league and the better European Spot that comes with it, which is worth a lot of money to clubs not just in terms of match revenue but spreading the brand and prestige. A 10 point deduction could have a knock on effect to next seasons revenues, causing them to drop. Not too informed with the how the places are allocated in Scotland but is it just first place that enters the Champions League qualification and second the Uefa Cup, or both the Champions League?
 
I think they both have to go through qualifiers to reach the Champions League proper. Which if they do, they normally make a complete horlicks of it anyway.
 
Guess that makes my point invalid then, only one of the two ever seem to get there though, and the bonus of Tv revenue for the group staged is important, but they do normally muck it up horrible, and either quietly slip out or jump sideways into the Uefa Cup, which has nowhere near as much money as the Champions League involved. Just thinking of the bigger picture
 
But almost certainly gift Celtic the league.
But, as a Motherwell fan, (3rd in the league) I would like a harsher points penalty.
They do what most clubs do, overspend and build up massive amounts of debt, then hope that the Television revenue increases to match the overspend.
Then hope a sugar daddy appears to keep it going, or go into administration and screw all the creditors over big time.
They did. The SPL had a megabucks deal with Setanta (not that big compared to the Sky/EPL but still a big deal) and then they went bust leaving loads of clubs with big debts. I believe the only SPL club not in the red is Motherwell. We did go into administration a few years back and since then, we've been operating within our means. Although it annoys when "smaller" clubs are giving out better wages than we will.

Not too informed with the how the places are allocated in Scotland but is it just first place that enters the Champions League qualification and second the Uefa Cup, or both the Champions League?
I believe 1st and 2nd in the SPL go into the CL qualifiers and 3rd and the SFA cup winners go into the Europa League.
 
Back