Should "Original" tracks be removed from GT?

  • Thread starter j8mie
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j8mie

j8mie

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Sometime ago when I joined this forum, I got upon my soap box and stood up for mirrored tracks. Some wise cracker on here ranted at me, saying driving on a mirrored track was like driving on a fantasy track in the clouds, and they had no place in the GT series. Fair point.

For some reason I remembered that conversation this morning, and it got me thinking again about this point. If the GT series is really trying to be the "The Real Driving Simulator" then I think it's about time those "original" tracks were consigned to GT's past. Surely all their is room for is real World tracks, or real World location courses like New York or Paris.

It would be a shame to lose El Captain or Deep Forest Raceway, but I don't really think they have a place anymore :( . With some luck PD might then include some of the more interesting tracks from around the World in an effort to fill the gap left by some of these firm favourites. I appreciate that losing these tracks will take something from the game, and racing on real life race tracks can be a bit boring, but that shouldn't stop PD creating a few more city based tracks, with character that so many modern race tracks lack.

Anyone care to view their opinion on this matter?
 
With the increased disc capacity for GT5 and beyond, there's really no reason to get rid of anything. Add more of everything! Fake tracks, backwards tracks, whatever...
 
While GT is the "real driving simulator" let's not forget that it's a SIMULATOR. When you have an airplane simulator, often times you'll be in situations or areas that don't really exist, but are very realistic. I think that's where the original circuits for GT come in. It also gives some of the development team room to be creative and keep things fresh. Granted, it's great having tracks like the Ring and Leguna Seca on here. But what about the types of tracks you always wanted to race on? That's where the original tracks fill in the gaps.
 
If they lose the Trial Mountain,they should insert some of Japanese Mountain roads instead.I need mountain racing :D.Only that way it`s fair!
 
Some fair points made, and I don't disagree with any of them, as I am a big fan of some of the Original tracks. But don't you folks feel the series needs to keep moving towards realism and move away from the fantasy/arcade racing genre that Need For Speed embraces wholeheartedly?

PD have gone to great lengths to improve the games physics and visual look, and with the promise of car damage, weather conditions and more realistic arenas to race in/around, don't you think it's about time these Original tracks should be put to pasture?
 
j8mie
Some fair points made, and I don't disagree with any of them, as I am a big fan of some of the Original tracks. But don't you folks feel the series needs to keep moving towards realism and move away from the fantasy/arcade racing genre that Need For Speed embraces wholeheartedly?

PD have gone to great lengths to improve the games physics and visual look, and with the promise of car damage, weather conditions and more realistic arenas to race in/around, don't you think it's about time these Original tracks should be put to pasture?
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If the track is well laid out and has a nice flow, I really don't care if it exists or not.. I never got the hang of Trial Mountain, until TT... Now I LOVE the track.. It has an awesome flow to it - I just never noticed before...
 
I'd love to see 20+ real-life tracks. but not 5 tracks, with 4 versions of each. I don't like motegi, or suzuka, and the sarth can be boring. that said, the right kind of real-life tracks would need to be added.
Plus, I'm not sure I could deal without Autumn-Ring and El Capitan. great tracks. quite frankly, i'm a bit dissapointed that you hardly ever race on the old original tracks.
But if they got enough and good real-life tracks, I'd be ok with it. motegi east, motegi west, motegi ring, all count as 1 track to me. so they'd have to add a LOT of real tracks.
And I don't see New York as any diff than Trial Mountain. both are fake.


And they shoulda kept Red Rock
 
Yes, I agree they should add the classics that were lost from GT1 and GT2. In fact, I think they should rename the High Speed Ring from GT4 and put a "2" behind it, then bring back the super-steep banks and skinny asphalt from the GT2 High Speed Ring.
GT just wouldn't be the same without origianl tracks. The first had nothing but them, so it would lose a lot of its history and legend if you got rid of the original tracks.
They must keep them, maybe even make new ones, but they should also expand the real tracks to include real snow and dirt tracks, and way more road courses, drag strips, and ovals.
 
You know, I was going to post a big fat NO before I thought more about this. He has a valid point that it is "The Real Driving Simulator." It only makes sense that we have real cars and real tracks.

But with that said...

By eliminating these original tracks, what's next? Are they going to disable controller compatibility and force us to use a wheel since they want it to be as real as possible? Are they going to get rid of Arcade Mode? The only view option is the cockpit view?

This is still a game so I say the original tracks should stay. Not all tracks should be real, they just have to be "realistic." As long as they don't put teleportation devices or loop-the-loops in Grand Valley then its real enough for me.
 
A driving game doesn't have to have real-world locations to be a "real driving simulator," and it certainly doesn't need to remove the fictional tracks that appeared in the earlier games. Live for Speed has nothing but fake tracks, yet it's regarded as one of the most realistic, most demanding driving sims ever made.
 
I'm completely and entirely bored up to the nostrils with trial mountain et all. The real life tracks are MUCH better fun.

Any excuse to force PD to get off their lazy bums and create some new content can only be good. There are so many fantastic real world racetracks with amazing layouts and historical pedigrees, I've no idea why PD need to invent utter ****e like Opera Paris.

Bin all the original tracks. All of them. I want GT to feel just a TINY bit fresh, it's staler than a year old sandwich left in Lister's laundry basket. It's all well and good to feel sentimental, but for God's sake just play the old games if you want old tracks. It's like you're all assuming the new tracks that would hypothetically replace the old-timer tracks wouldn't be waaay better, which they SURELY would be, since just about every single real life circuit that is worth including IS waaay better anyway.

Are you people TRYING to limit GT's evolution as a series? You don't come up to a completely grey wall and say... "Hmmm, I think I might paint that... grey..."

I don't know about most of you, but I'm incredibly tired of playing the exact same tracks in every GT game. Most of the old tracks have a kinda PS1-era arcadey aesthetic that just doesn't work anymore. GT has completely outgrown those old tracks. I would not miss them at all. I basically only play the Nurb these days because it is painfully better than every other track in the game by about a thousand degrees.
 
Good point. But I think PD can keep our beloved "original" tracks and still introduce some new, exciting tracks like they always have with the new edition of GT. So my vote is "no".
 
No! Games not based on a specific racing series, type of racing, or a combination of the two don't need original courses to be taken out. Gran Turismo is not a pure racing sim. It's not based on a real racing series, so they are free to come up with original courses. And I like original tracks INCLUDING nonfiction tracks because I am an art person. I like to see what a game company can come up with in offering a challenging track that's just as good, if not better, than actual courses. A company can go the Forza route and make tracks based on or inspired by actual circuits. Look at the horrible Blue Mountains Raceway based on Bathurst. I want game developers to use their imagination, in addition to providing whatever it is they want to provide for their fans. And for four GTs, the formula has worked even with a beautiful job on Grand Valley Speedway. I sometimes think that being a good racer involves racing tracks that can't be found in real life or not based on any specific course. These idealistic and imaginative race courses are a nice challenge even if you don't like original courses. Why do people love real courses? The big reason is because they are tracks you can actually race on and be able to visit them in real life if you wanted to. If you can't get the license to a certain track, you can always make your own. I honor originality. Make tracks exclusive to your game and offer experiences no other game can come close to. Unless you want to be boring and mundane, then that's your call.

I will say this though. There is no replacement for Grand Valley Speedway. That is a hell of a track and maybe the best fantasy course in ANY racing game. It's also been the signature race course for GT. Taking that track away is like taking away Brands Hatch, Silverstone, or even Donnington Park in British motorsport.

Mark me down for "no" as well. Use your imagination. Go with real tracks if you wish, but use your imagination a bit.
 
I mostly agree with James2097, but at the same time I love some of the original tracks, like Midfield and Deep Forest. With that said, I think they have very little place in the Gran Turismo Mode. But Arcade mode is a different story. Why not have it that way? Real tracks (and that includes the "true location" tracks, such as New York, Paris and Grand Canyon) in Gran Turismo Mode, and Original tracks in Arcade?
 
a6m5
Good point. But I think PD can keep our beloved "original" tracks and still introduce some new, exciting tracks like they always have with the new edition of GT. So my vote is "no".
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Yes, they could do that, but I don't even want the dev time that could be devoted to making great new racetracks put into updating the old tracks. This is a problem simply because of PD's prodigiously SLOW work habits. If PD worked faster, I wouldn't worry about including more tracks AND the old ones.

There is also the issue that if the old tracks were to remain in GT5, I'd have to race enduros on them again, and do a million more laps of them (as well as any new tracks). I have no interest in the old original circuits whatsoever. I would never bother getting to 100% if I had to do a zillion more laps of trial mountain, just for the sake of PD being sadistic.

I believe, there are only so many laps of High Speed Ring a guy can take. PD are saddists. Pleasure=Pain.


Oh, thinking about it, my stance is just that I want NEW tracks that are good and fresh, I don't especially care if they're real world circuits, but I'd MUCH prefer them to be. I desperately want to be rid of those old tracks. I've just got so bored of them it's intolerable. Including them in GT5 would mean I have to race on them to get 100%, and I really don't want that!
 
James2097
Yes, they could do that, but I don't even want the dev time that could be devoted to making great new racetracks put into updating the old tracks. This is a problem simply because of PD's prodigiously SLOW work habits. If PD worked faster, I wouldn't worry about including more tracks AND the old ones.

There is also the issue that if the old tracks were to remain in GT5, I'd have to race enduros on them again, and do a million more laps of them (as well as any new tracks). I have no interest in the old original circuits whatsoever. I would never bother getting to 100% if I had to do a zillion more laps of trial mountain, just for the sake of PD being sadistic.
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Even more great points, James. Really funny too, I don't know if you realize it. :lol: Yeah, I don't think they should spend too much time or effort "re"developing the classic tracks. As for the amount of times we have to spend on any of the tracks, new or old, I hope PD finds a good balance or compromise.

James2097
This is a problem simply because of PD's prodigiously SLOW work habits. If PD worked faster, I wouldn't worry about including more tracks AND the old ones.
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:lol:👍
 
Thanks for all taking the time to think about this. It's nice to read some of the different views and reasons for and against this idea.

I understand that people are fond of these tracks, as am I myself. However the point James2097 makes about their being better/more interesting real life tracks is a good one. How many people here spend hours driving the 'ring? I know for one that I do. It's a great way to test a car, to see what it's good for, and it's without a doubt the best track in the whole game.

I'm not saying that all tracks should be race circuits, far from it. But they should at least be real locations with real road layouts turned into race tracks like New York (bad example I know). How about the Targa Floria, which is basically a race track made up of miles of roads around Sicily.

Maybe as a compromise, how about only having the Original tracks in the arcade/LAN/2 player mode only, that way you can still drive them, but they are not part of the main game?
 
Damn, I just came in here all grumpy, huffing and puffing about my pet peeves, and apparently still made some sense. :)

I'm fine with including these old tracks as long as they don't take any dev time that could be used to otherwise improve the game, and as long as racing on them isn't required to get 100% (or required at ALL - no license tests on them please - even though licenses may or may not count on the completion percentage).

As these two things can never ever, realistically happen, I vote an emphatic YES to permanent deletion.

I know I'm very hardcore about not wanting to play these tracks, but it has been nearly ten years guys... Most racing games have completely new tracks every installment! It's the laziest track design in the world! We desperately need to move on!

GT is a very stagnant series, very stale and stodgey with stunted growth. A bit of new content and a refresh isn't too much to ask after nearly 10 years?

If it was up to me, I'd have ALL new tracks and just keep the Nurburgring and a few select others. Imagine THAT! When you realise most car games DO change tracks every installment, you start to realise the possibilities and how lazy PD have been.
 
j8mie
Maybe as a compromise, how about only having the Original tracks in the arcade/LAN/2 player mode only, that way you can still drive them, but they are not part of the main game?
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And maybe in GT mode as well, but only in practice, etc.? That would make sense to me. If I played GT4 as much as James did, I might actually feel the same way.
 
JohnBM01
...I want game developers to use their imagination, in addition to providing whatever it is they want to provide for their fans...
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So do I. But if PD want to really do this, they should go work for EA Games and or make their own Need For Speed clone, and stop trying to make this game a proper racing simulator.

JohnBM01
...I honor originality. Make tracks exclusive to your game and offer experiences no other game can come close to. Unless you want to be boring and mundane, then that's your call...
Click to expand...

Please don't think I'm against original tracks, because I'm not. However I just feel they should make way for real World tracks. There's still room for PD to create something new and original, so long as they do it in a real World location. I'd much rather race a point to point, along a real coastal road in Italy, than dull as dishwater Midfield Raceway.

JohnBM01
...I will say this though. There is no replacement for Grand Valley Speedway. That is a hell of a track and maybe the best fantasy course in ANY racing game. It's also been the signature race course for GT. Taking that track away is like taking away Brands Hatch, Silverstone, or even Donnington Park in British motorsport...
Click to expand...

Grand Valley is average IMO, I'd much rather drive round Bathurst or the 'ring.
 
j8mie
Please don't think I'm against original tracks, because I'm not. However I just feel they should make way for real World tracks. There's still room for PD to create something new and original, so long as they do it in a real World location. I'd much rather race a point to point, along a real coastal road in Italy, than dull as dishwater Midfield Raceway.
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YEAH! 👍:)
j8mie
Grand Valley is average IMO, I'd much rather drive round Bathurst or the 'ring.
Click to expand...
YEAH! BATHURST! RIGHT ON! :cheers:
 
James2097
...I know I'm very hardcore about not wanting to play these tracks, but it has been nearly ten years guys... Most racing games have completely new tracks every installment! It's the laziest track design in the world! We desperately need to move on!

GT is a very stagnant series, very stale and stodgey with stunted growth. A bit of new content and a refresh isn't too much to ask after nearly 10 years?

If it was up to me, I'd have ALL new tracks and just keep the Nurburgring and a few select others. Imagine THAT! When you realise most car games DO change tracks every installment, you start to realise the possibilities and how lazy PD have been.
Click to expand...

A couple of excellent points. As I've only been playing the series since GT3 these tracks are not as familar to me, as they are to someone like yourself whos been playing since the release of GT1.

I think we are getting to the bones of this now. I think PD are one lazy bunch of mofo's :sly:

So the point JohnBM01 made about wanting developers to use their imagination more, is even more important as PD stopped using theirs sometime ago it would seem. It's not like they have to create fictional cars as well. So what do they do all day long? Probably downloading Manga porn all day :scared:
 

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