Should PD reward the winners of the World Tour with real money?

[Bloodytears]

Playing GTS isn't a job though. It's a hobby they choose to do.

We're a looong way, if ever, of seeing an esport driver getting their expenses paid.

May be I'm wrong, but sport isn't a hobby. If you play a game at home, this is a hobby, if you participate in the esport event hosted by FIA, this sounds like an actual sport event. I didn't say about job, since real sportsmen have pay from their sponsors as this could be considered as job for them, but when they take an actual race, they receive a prize money - a pay for participating and perhaps winning this event.

 

[schnick]

Back on the "gambling" aspect, I also play a bit of poker and have heard plenty about the whole "Is poker gambling or a game of skill? debate". GT world tours and esports in general don't even come close to gambling. Yes, there are prizes (even though the original topic of this thread is about a monetary prize) but as mentioned before, no money is at risk, unless entry fees go towards a prize pool which is generally not the case. So while I've seen ridiculous legislation that effectively bans internet poker in certain countries, it looks like there is even more ridiculous legislation in others that don't allow GT Sport players to compete just because of the prospect of a "prize".

 

[kilesa4568]

May be I'm wrong, but sport isn't a hobby. If you play a game at home, this is a hobby, if you participate in the esport event hosted by FIA, this sounds like an actual sport event. I didn't say about job, since real sportsmen have pay from their sponsors as this could be considered as job for them, but when they take an actual race, they receive a prize money - a pay for participating and perhaps winning this event.

But it isn't a sports event. It's an esport LAN event hosted by the game's developers. The FiA is a partner and regulator of the game.

You're not wrong about it costing players lost wages if they choose to go but getting to the event is an expensive prize on its own. Unless they're a banker (unsure of the spelling on that profession...), the all inclusive holiday costs way more than they lose in earnings. There's merit in that.

One day I hope there's a prize pool but with the compelling argument about gambling, you might lose a countries talent pool.

Rambling a bit now (who? Me?) but I wouldn't mind if they went with a more prestigious competition route. Get some winners names etched on the 'love it or hate it' bronze sculpture to try and build some history with it (if the esport takes off) and give a bit of immortality to the drivers who win it. I wouldn't mind seeing gold, silver and bronze medals for the podium keepsakes too. Those glass trophies are a bit naff.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

if this became big money tournament then it is possible that many of the top names you associate with GTS would no longer be in the mix as you started bringing in the big boys from disciplines like iracing that I think do have big money racers and basically pro gamers/racers that run strictly for the prize money offered taking the top slots.

Make the money big enough they will come and start racing in gts.

 

[kilesa4568]

it is possible that many of the top names you associate with GTS would no longer be in the mix as you started bringing in the big boys

Those big names you mention will really need to prioritise GTS and be on their A game to get anywhere close to our aliens. They have a very strong home team advantage as they already know the physics inside and out.

I hope they sign up though. I watched Jimmy B in an iracing race with Verstappen and Norris and it was brilliant to see names that big in online racing.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Seems like the competition would need rules governing racecraft for that to resemble a good idea...

 

[kilesa4568]

They know what they are and so do most of us plebs.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

This may turn into a long post. Apologies.
And I certainly don't know all the facts, so it's just my thoughts on the situation.

Firstly, I think this needs to be considered in two halves.

I'll quickly digrees on something I do know a little about.
SONY run a tight legal ship with regards to 'official' competitions.
For example, let's say I decide to hold a quick competition on the SONY forums.
Red Bull ring now has rain, so I decide to have a Time Trial competition and offer a GT T-shirt (which I have access to and will fund myself) as the prize for the winner.
This would require me to contact a SONY employee on the forum, so they can get Terms and Conditions drawn up for that specific competition, and have it approved by the legal team, before I was allowed to post the thread on the forum.
That's just how it works and the level that SONY view 'competitions'.


Anyway, as I was saying ... two halves.
The first half is that this competition is initially a PlayStation event, held on a PS4, on the PSN.
Players stay at home to compete in this competition.
The 'prize' for this competition is an 'all expenses paid invite' to a World Tour event.

Now I don't know about all PlayStation competitions, either current or past.
And it would be interesting if someone has another example.
But I would suggest that the total prize pool for this competition is well above most, if not all, other SONY PlayStation competitions.
And keep in mind that there are also multiple events held through the year.

The second half is the event itself.
We are essentially watching the competitors 'enjoy' their prize.
So who is running the event now?
Is it SONY? Is it PD? Is it the FIA? 2 of the 3? All 3?
Along with publicity for the drivers themselves showing they are top level sim racers (which may or may not lead somewhere), these events also have rewards for the competitors.
TAG watches and Thrustmaster T-GT's are some known extra goodies.
And of course the final reward for the best of the best being an invite to the end of year FIA prize giving night, where they share the stage along side world champions of F1, WRC, etc. and collect their trophy.

So the question is ... who is running the show and ultimately foots the bill for prize money at these live events?
What sort of legal issues are involved?
Does the FIA want to have prize money for this eSport event, and if so, how much is appropriate?

I don't know, and I don't know what implications it would have for the competition should a significant amount of prize money be introduced.

 

[O604]

Maybe the prize was millions of dollars?

But they tore it all up into confetti and shot it out of a cannon.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Those big names you mention will really need to prioritise GTS and be on their A game to get anywhere close to our aliens. They have a very strong home team advantage as they already know the physics inside and out.

For many the biggest adjustment would probably be the amount of contact allowed that does not draw a penalty of any type in GTS.
Most iraces I have watched online EVERY contact/incident or offtrack no matter how minor seems to add to a cumulative point total that can result in disqualification from the event.
I doubt that the GTS physics would be a big deal for these top guys as the cars and physics in GTS are actually easier to drive and much more forgiving than those of most other gaming titles or series.
Yes I think the very top of the GTS heap would still be competitive but the remaining cast not so much. If anything made more of a difference I think it would be those drivers being forced to use more toy like controllers that GTS uses for its competitions as compared to what most of these guys are used to using a much more pro level quality wheels and pedals, that may be a big adjustment.

But again if the purse size were large enough I think you will see many of those guys competing.

 

[Bloodytears]

But it isn't a sports event. It's an esport LAN event hosted by the game's developers. The FiA is a partner and regulator of the game.

Right now all money pool goes to PD, as they hosting this esport event. Partners, sponsors and friends all came to PD for show. For me this a little bit unfair to participants, and also slightly dulls a motivation between them. Agree, host pays for a ride, places to live, food and all needed equipment, aren't they? But in the end all participants come home nearly empty handed. 'Course they're young and it's important to make a name, to see the world, to do something, but money will do no harm, and those money could help simply with their lives, either with their "hobby", in current state.
Don't know why even esport event should be considered as gambling, first time hear about that, but with all nonsense in this world, will easily believe someone stated this so very likely.

 

[KaiB]

I don´t think racing it´s a gambling..., normally every sport have bets linked to it but that´s outside of the sport it self and normally generates money for people ho like to see(fans) and off course for corrupt people inside the world of any sport, driving..playing football , swim you name it i don´t think it´s gambling.

Other thing i hear people say and i think it´s rong..., just cause a game it´s hard to play doesn´t mean that it simulate better, driving for example it´s very easy to do in RL, driving in the limits it´s another story but some games just cause they are harder doesn´t mean they are doing it right.

For my taste i think GT sport it´s intuitive enough compared to RL and more important it´s fun to play and it looks amazing.

Anyway i think GT still have room to improve in many aspects let´s see when ps5 comes out what will the full game offer, i think if PD assign a department to work on real damage for itself will solve many problems concerning penaltys and judgements.

 

[kilesa4568]

For many the biggest adjustment would probably be the amount of contact allowed that does not draw a penalty of any type in GTS.
Most iraces I have watched online EVERY contact/incident or offtrack no matter how minor seems to add to a cumulative point total that can result in disqualification from the event.
I doubt that the GTS physics would be a big deal for these top guys as the cars and physics in GTS are actually easier to drive and much more forgiving than those of most other gaming titles or series.
Yes I think the very top of the GTS heap would still be competitive but the remaining cast not so much. If anything made more of a difference I think it would be those drivers being forced to use more toy like controllers that GTS uses for its competitions as compared to what most of these guys are used to using a much more pro level quality wheels and pedals, that may be a big adjustment.

But again if the purse size were large enough I think you will see many of those guys competing.

They'll be quick to learn after a couple of GTS's Newton's Cradle bumps and it could be a refreshing twist for them to be able to race harder than they do in their usual game. While I'm a fan of iRacing's system, it still uses a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

This might sound heartless but if these big names manage to oust some of the regular GTS names, I don't have a problem with that. The raised bar will push people into trying even harder.

On the wheel front; we have our own DD wheel now and load cells have been out for a while so equipment won't be an issue for them. If they're a big enough name, Fanatec will likely give them a set up anyway as it's great publicity.

But in the end all participants come home nearly empty handed.

Back when I was young, I played a lot of 8 Ball and travelled all over England to tournaments. Expenses to get there and even more expense if I reached the last day. The most I won out of these tournaments was £250 and a lot of brittle plastic trophies but I still loved to enter them. 30 years ago and the memories are still fresh.

Anyhoo, I've agreed with you that money would be nice but going to one of these events would be enough of a reward for me.

 

[zzz_pt]

A high prize money pool would also mean PD losing some of their best players, possibly.

Most people who play GT do it because iRacing is a lot more expensive. If you give out a large prize money to the finalists, I doubt they wouldn't pick up a high end DD wheel, hydraulic set of pedals, etc and move to iracing, where you have the most realistic sim, a lot more real world tracks/race cars, large scale events and ofc the most competitive pros and pro teams.

GT is moving forward in regards to the quality but it's still not the best for serious simracing.

 

[golfer07840]

Fraga's dirty stunt in NYC would be nothing compared to what the racing would devolve into..

"Fraga's dirty Stunt in NYC..."

Ok, what did I miss? Can someone enlighten me? Did someone drive dirty during the Championship?

 

[anthonyfa18]

 

[kilesa4568]

A high prize money pool would also mean PD losing some of their best players, possibly.

Most people who play GT do it because iRacing is a lot more expensive. If you give out a large prize money to the finalists, I doubt they wouldn't pick up a high end DD wheel, hydraulic set of pedals, etc and move to iracing, where you have the most realistic sim, a lot more real world tracks/race cars, large scale events and ofc the most competitive pros and pro teams.

GT is moving forward in regards to the quality but it's still not the best for serious simracing.

It's a stretch to think the current GTS stars would abandon the game altogether. They might dabble with one of the more serious sims but GT will always be their bread and butter. They're already at the top of something that's visibly going from strength to strength and beginning to attract heavyweight partners. It would be daft to leave it behind.

This might seem far fetched but the racing in GTS is some of the best I've ever seen, real or otherwise and it wouldn't surprise me if we saw this sort of racing on TV at some point.

 

[Sander 001]

E-sports are taking off, I mean absolutely skyrocketing. I don't know if GT Sport is on board, haven't seen the numbers.

Just a week ago DOTA had their annual tournament where concurrent viewership reached over 1 million. The total prize money was well over $30 million.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

On the wheel front; we have our own DD wheel now and load cells have been out for a while so equipment won't be an issue for them. If they're a big enough name, Fanatec will likely give them a set up anyway as it's great publicity.

But in the GTS sponsored competitions you cannot use your own equipment in the final rounds. You are stuck with their "sponsored" Thrustmaster rigs.

And Fanatec may make the highest quality level gear to be Play Station compatible but I think when it comes to the upper end pro level stuff they are still just considered to be only upper mid range level gear although they are starting to try to break into the top ranked category with their newest DD wheel offerings.

 

[Krypton78]

I think yes, there should be a prize reward in principle. But in the moment PD/ Sony is throwing the money into the events without not really getting it back. Obviously they are in the building- up phase, so its ok not to provide it I guess.

But If the time really comes where they should start making real money with the events, then of course the players should be participated to that.

About the point that races will get more ugly, I don't think so. The guys are racing apperantly at max desperation/ adrenalin level already by now as it turns out

 

[kilesa4568]

But in the GTS sponsored competitions you cannot use your own equipment in the final rounds. You are stuck with their "sponsored" Thrustmaster rigs.

They'd have to earn their place at the event like everyone else does with whatever wheel they've got.

From what I've heard about the TGT wheel with its GTS friendly transducer, they get a wheel with plenty of feedback detail to work with but the wheel isn't the deciding factor on how well they do, it's their skill that decides that.

 

[Hoopzah]

The TAG is a nice touch, but at the very least they could throw in a T-GT and a few bucks. What's $5,000-$10,000 to Sony..? Nothing. Literally.

 

[O604]

Apparently video game tournaments are perceived like gambling in Japan and they have very strict rules. This is just one example of past attempts (at the bottom under "Aftermath") - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Japan_2018

So you can sort blame it on outdated (probably close to 100 years old) Japanese gaming laws.