Should the UK reintroduce National Service?

[Touring Mars]

A hot topic in British politics at the moment is Tony Blair's 'Respect' initiative, aimed at the vast swathes of disillusioned British youths, roaming the streets in their hooded tops, collecting and comparing their ASBO's (Anti-Social Behaviour Orders), and all the while they are binge drinking and making the streets of Britain generally quite unpleasant, apparently...

Now, as the leadership contest for the Conservative Party (the major opposition party) hots up, both candidates have mooted the reintroduction of National Service, or atleast something that is similar to the US 'Peace Corps' launched by JFK...

Now, I've never been too interested in joining the army, and I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have enjoyed National Service much myself either, but after seeing an interview with an 18 yr old girl on the TV last week, I'm now not so against the idea of national service anymore. Every 11th November, we commemorate Armistice Day/Rememberance Day/Veterans Day... in the UK, people wear red poppies to visually mark the act of rememberance. On being asked what the significance of the wearing the poppy was, one 18 yr old girl asked "Is it something to do with New Labour?"... now, one doesn't want to be too harsh on the poor girl, but how does a country, in the space of just 60 years, go from a state where 18 yr olds are fighting and dying to save us from the tyranny of Nazism, to thinking that the commemorative poppy is a party political broadcast?

Would National Service help or hinder us in trying to usher in a new era of respect? Would it reinvigorate the youth of Britain and give them a renewed sense of national pride, or just turn them into a bunch of militaristic thugs? Is National Service elsewhere a good thing or a bad thing? Now that I'm too old to do it, I'm all for it ...

 

[Young_Warrior]

Lets face it the average UK youth is dumb. Even ones that are book smart lack in general knowledge and political intelligence. I however am at a forefront of alot of antisocial behaviour (as in I went to school with alot of kids that did it) and I say after theyve committed a couple of crimes and are general nuisance makers they should get shipped off to a camp to get some dicipline and manners into them. Quite frankly im getting scared of whats happening to our streets. Too many kids running about with knives and guns and so small things as a argument and a fist fight so easily escaltes in the losing person wanting to stab someone up. I just dont understand how kids that are around my age think this way. How can you go out and just stab someone over a stupid fight or a fone. Dont they think of the consequences that they might kill the person and end up in jail? They obviously dont. I dont know what it is but for some reason these kids cant bear the thought of losing "face" to their peers and so go out with knives. They like to act bad but because theres always someone badder theyre now arming themselves with knives. Even in our school theyre bringing knives ina nd stabbing people.

Back when I was in secondary I had a disagreement with another group of kids in which they werre constantly mouthing off going around as if they run the school so men and two of my mates kicked thema ll in and they ran off to the teachers. Next I know im excluded and theyre now running about with knives in the school threatning my friends with them in some sort of form to regain their in their mind theyre respect.And they got caught by teachers:The outcome I was still excluded but they got off scotch free. Nice message some principals are sending out. Its complete stupidity and now you can never be too sure. Now when people come up to me that I dont know I always make sure to diffuse the situiation even when I know I could easily tell them to F off and if they try anyhting Id have the better of them but now I will just back down as the risk of them carrying a knife is too great.

Im all for it. Send the disillusioned trouble makers away to learn something other than great smashed on a weekend and cause a nuisance.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I think it would be a great idea. What's better is that people would also pick up more qualifications while doing it.

What's even better is that I wouldn't be allowed to join. Because I have asthma .

[EDIT] Okay a better post now.

I think it would greatly improve British society. People would, atleast for a short time, be fitter. Also it would teach alot of people respect and hopefully show them the rewards of hard work.

However, I think to bring it in now would be a very difficult. I can only see it happening if there is a dramatic change to British foreign policy. Namely, no longer fighting wars that have little effect on us at home.

 

[Touring Mars]

I once (kind of) dated a Greek girl who had done National Service and was she was really into it... she invited me back to her flat for coffee (although it was pretty hot) and she had all these photographs on her wall of her in her army gear ... she was holding a massive rifle and she looked meaner than Rambo after his souffle had collapsed. She was in great shape, extremely fit, and also extremely into discipline... she said she owed it all to National Service... can't be all that bad in my book...

 

[Young_Warrior]

If I had a son who was a public nuisance I would be all for it. Daughters too if she was more of a tomboy.Cant be stickin shoplifting females into the army however.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I once (kind of) dated a Greek girl who had done National Service and was she was really into it... she invited me back to her flat for coffee (although it was pretty hot) and she had all these photographs on her wall of her in her army gear ... she was holding a massive rifle and she looked meaner than Rambo after his souffle had collapsed. She was in great shape, extremely fit, and also extremely into discipline... she said she owed it all to National Service... can't be all that bad in my book...

Yeah but it would be so hard to bring it into force now-a-days. Many people don't agree with the war in Iraq without having family involved, yet alone when their sons/daughters are involved.

I'm interested to find out if there are any clauses for not being allowed to do NS. And if not allowed entry, do they do something comparable in civilian life.

For example at present no-one with asthma or diabetes (among others) is allowed to join the forces...AT ALL. This I found out the hard way a few weeks ago. Also, more and more people are obese. Is the military expected to be a 'fat camp' for such people? Or are they expected to get themselves fit before conscription? Even worse are they going to say they don't have to join. Thus leading to more and more people getting abese to avoid service.


I'd be interested to hear from someone where NS is in place.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Nearly anyone can join the army. Fail the entrance test and you will still get into the army. Our army says it hasnt got enough soldiers.

As for me I had asthma when I was little, or so the doctors thought anyway as I never though I had so I could always fall back on my health records incase someone was trying to force me to join.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Nearly anyone can join the army. Fail the entrance test and you will still get into the army. Our army says it hasnt got enough soldiers.

As for me I had asthma when I was little, or so the doctors thought anyway as I never though I had so I could always fall back on my health records incase someone was trying to force me to join.

It depends. If you don't show symptons or use medication in the last 4 (I think) years, you're fine.

The army is probably the easiest to join. Well, the infantry is.

 

[Dave A]

I think kids that cause trouble should be put into some strict scheme, Natioanl service though, I dissagree with. If they were put into something like that but only after they've gone down as trouble causers then I'd be okay with that.

 

[Flame-returns]

Dating a girl who was interested in discipline, eh.

Back on topic, re-instating Nation Service would be a step backwards for British society. It would be racist (Mahayana and Zen Buddhists do not beleive in warfare), it would be unnescessary and it would be a strain on the army.

In order to serve as any part of the British army you must be jacketed to a core and a division, ie I am currently a NCO (Non-Commisioned Officer, I'm a Colour Sergeant if you want to be precise) jacketed to the Queen's Royal Green Jackets, part of the Light Infantry Brigade. Being in the army means you wear the beret of your division and you wear it with pride and commitment, I think that very few young people have the initiative and the dicipline required to be a part of the British Army. I beleive in forcing children of about 14 to choose to either serve with a school CCF (Combined Cadet Forces) or join CSO. A single option would not suit anyone.

Serious trouble makers are not needed in the army and are, quite frankly, not wanted. Wearing the Queen's beret is a matter of trust and the Army do not trust morons. Don't think you can dump societies problems on the people who actually serve this county.

The army will accept soldiers who have asthma but will not accept those who are deeply unfit, we are not here to become the nations fat camp (although the School of Signals seems happy to accept the obese).

 

[Young_Warrior]

It depends. If you don't show symptons or use medication in the last 4 (I think) years, you're fine.

The army is probably the easiest to join. Well, the infantry is.

LOL because no one wants to go into the infantry.
Id just have to pressure my doctor into saying that Ive been suffering from asthma.

What about sick note harry. Should he go to iraq?

 

[code_kev]

Just send the chavs. Problem sorted.

 

[Dave A]

👍 .

 

[Young_Warrior]

I cant argue with that.

 

[Flame-returns]

I can, be serious for a second here, you would trust a group of burberry wearing morons on MOD property with .22 calibre rifles (standard cadet rifle, soldiers are introduced to assault rifles after passing their Firearms Safety Test (FST) and their Basic Marksmanship Test (BMT).

 

[Dave A]

^ Nope, not a chance.

 

[Young_Warrior]

but by then you would hope that they would have been brought into line before any instructor would think about placing a gun in their hands.

If I was forced into thea rmy I wouldnt mind it too much as I would enjoy the fact that it has mental stimulus whilst also pushing my body to the limits. The army is ment to be very enjoyable. The only bit I wouldnt like is that it would be hard to maintain or create large muscle mass however you can still be extremly strong but just not look it whn in civilian clothing.

 

[Dave A]

Beleive me, the Army is not meant to be enjoyable. My mates older brother stands infront of mirros shouting "I am a mother ****ing badass" over and over just to help him not quit. It's not as hard as it is during major wars like say either of the World Wars, but it's not meant to be fun and for 90+% of the peopel in the army it probably isn't.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Well that depends of what regiment your in? If that is the right word or department But anyway my dad and all his mates who were in air defense absolutely loved it and encouraged me to join. You get to play alot of sport socialise and travel the world.

They all alos told me not to join the infantry.

 

[Flame-returns]

My mates older brother stands infront of mirros shouting "I am a mother ****ing badass" over and over just to help him not quit

Sounds like he has a personality problem.

Well that depends of what regiment your in? If that is the right word or department But anyway my dad and all his mates who were in air defense absolutely loved it and encouraged me to join. You get to play alot of sport socialise and travel the world.

They all alos told me not to join the infantry.

Regiment, Wing, squad, division, Brigade, school, team, and Regiment are all correct. Department is not, we are not a high street chain.

The Light Infantry Brigade and the School of Signals are both good sections to be in.

 

[Dave A]

No, he was quite alright. He was just under a hell of a lot of pressure from his superiors as was EVERYONE else is his school.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Which part of the army is in which you are most likey to be in the front lines and you do alot of marching and most likey to get shot?

 

[Dave A]

Light infantry I guess, I'm not a pro on the army though so I'll leave that to F_R.

 

[Flame-returns]

The question has to be divided in to 3 parts and therfore has 3 answers.

1) In the Armed services as a whole (ie everything covered by NAAFI) the system that does the most marching is the Navy, in the military the division that does the most marching is the Barracks and other ceremonial divisions.

2) The Light Infantry is the division in which you serve in the front lines.

3) While the light infantry wear little armour and do not travel in ATVs or ATTs despite generally holding the front line members of the light infantry are generally unlikely to get shot.

The Light Infantry is very mobile so is difficult for heavy artillery to hit, the light infantry will break formation when under fire (making it even harder to hit) and will usually be deployed in surprise or rapid attacks in urban areas (you can fill a street with soldiers in about 2 minutes).

Contrary to popular beleif the divisions in which you are more likely to be shot are heavy infantry (you keep formation, walk slowly and carry very big guns, you wear a good deal of armour but that is unlikely to protect you from an RPG) and heavy artillery (you stay behind the lines, wear no armour, and have to stick by your artillery, if the lines get breeched you are very VERY dead.

You are most likely to die if you are a front lines signal officer, you keep position alongside the light infantry but you act as a static unit.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The army will accept soldiers who have asthma but will not accept those who are deeply unfit, we are not here to become the nations fat camp (although the School of Signals seems happy to accept the obese).

On the asthma point I have to say either you are wrong or teh guy at the army (forces) career office is.

He asked straight away if I had asthma or diabetes etc and I said I had asthma but was in good fitness. He told me sorry but under no surcumstances are asthmatics accepted into any of the Armed Forces unless they have been medication or sympton free for 3 years. I repeated and said that I was in good fitness but he didn't want to know.

Needless to say, I was really pissed off.

 

[Flame-returns]

I usually depends on what dosage you are on, if you are 100mg or less of salbutamol almost all divisions will accept you, it sll depends on the division and their duty within a battle situation.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I usually depends on what dosage you are on, if you are 100mg or less of salbutamol almost all divisions will accept you, it sll depends on the division and their duty within a battle situation.

He didn't even go into that much detail.

He did say that if you get asthma while serving they may keep you on, but you can't enter with it.

 

[Flame-returns]

Complain to his commanding officer (I beleive signals deal with recruiting and advertising but I could find out more for you) and apply for a static post job (such as Signals).

 

[ExigeEvan]

Complain to his commanding officer (I beleive signals deal with recruiting and advertising but I could find out more for you) and apply for a static post job (such as Signals).

It's not worth the hassle. Anyway, I was set on becoming an Aircraft Engineer in the RAF.

 

[Young_Warrior]

It's not worth the hassle. Anyway, I was set on becoming an Aircraft Engineer in the RAF.

I was thinking on doing something very similiar but the thought that I might be living far away from london put me off the idea. Now if they could assure me that I lived like a hour away from london or so that I could still easily travel to london to party then I would do it.