- 54
i've noticed many people slam on the brakes (as in 100% brake pressure everytime they use the brake) before entering any and all corners. is this a good technique to get faster lap times? i've always thought that this was a no-no in driving...
slamming on the brakes...good technique?
- Thread starter im playing gt5
- 56 comments
- 8,732 views
- 881
- Finland
- Sohvakettu
If you have ABS on then you can do that. The more brake pressure you can aply without locking the wheels the better...
- 7,644
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
In GT5 you can get away with it when the ABS is on. A few cars, like the 2J actually can get upset under breaking, but the majority don't. The only time you shouldn't slam the brakes is when trail braking for relatively tight turns because you'll end up understeering off track.
Letting off the brake is where you need to be careful in GT5. Slowly releasing pressure as you turn in is the fastest way to corner.
Letting off the brake is where you need to be careful in GT5. Slowly releasing pressure as you turn in is the fastest way to corner.
- 864
- Long Beach, CA
- danonite
I've noticed that on the first corner at Daytona Road Course, my car seems to squirm very violently under braking. It's strange because it only happens at that corner...
- 1,973
- Florida - USA
- Flsurffisher
Nope. 100% brake pressure will generally get you spun out. You do want to slow rapidly approaching a turn then get back on the gas as soon as you hit the apex. Slow in - Fast out.
- 6,290
- Washington State
- OutlawQuadrant
I tend to trail brake so slamming the brakes isn't something I like to do (and frankly, braking zones continues to be a problem for me). Therefore, I apply about 80-90% brake and aim for a late apex in order to get a fast exit.
That corner is a nightmare for me! It's in the Top 5 in the list of corners I need a lot of work on.
- 198
- Saudi Arabia
- IRT_tka_tha
If the ideal speed for entering the corner is kph100, for example, and top speed at end of stretch (before braking) is kph120, then just a little braking is all you need. Full force braking is not for all type of corners.
The quicker you can move from top speed to ideal cornering speed the better your lap times will get. However, smoothness is key in getting the car to take a set quickly for optimum corner speed. If you were chasing a thief down an isle, for example, and you reach a 90 degree turn you will naturally tilt your body to the inside of the corner, and most probably bend your knees a little more. You are taking a set in order to achieve maximum possible speed through the corner and catch the thief
The quicker you can move from top speed to ideal cornering speed the better your lap times will get. However, smoothness is key in getting the car to take a set quickly for optimum corner speed. If you were chasing a thief down an isle, for example, and you reach a 90 degree turn you will naturally tilt your body to the inside of the corner, and most probably bend your knees a little more. You are taking a set in order to achieve maximum possible speed through the corner and catch the thief
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- 23,800
- Philippines
Any time that you aren't on the throttle or brakes is time lost on the lap. The only time you shouldn't be 100% on the brakes is if it'll cause understeer (lock-up in front) or oversteer (lock-up in the rear).
With ABS off, you can still slam on the brakes while benefitting from the increased attitude control that turning ABS off gives you by tweaking your brake bias.
With ABS off, you can still slam on the brakes while benefitting from the increased attitude control that turning ABS off gives you by tweaking your brake bias.
- 756
- United States
When I play I have all assists off except ABS on 1. I do slam the brakes and use the spin as a advantage and steer the car around the turn at hand. Never had a problem so far and it fetches me gold so I'm ok with it.
- 1,473
- Teddy_Bear-420
if you turn ABS on 10 you can get away with this but it you use ABS 0-1 good luck keeping up
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
While you are correct when it comes to real life and some other games (Iracing, GT Legends, GTR2 etc) I found with GT5 that coasting mid corner is a very useful technique, especially on Racing compound tyres. Brake hard then let off and turn in then coast around the corner getting back on the gas as you exit. Something to do with the tyre model and overheating I think, its just not faster to trial brake in GT5.
I also found its not possible to drive properly without ABS in GT5. Again Iracing and other games you can notice next to no loss, if anything a slight gain from non ABS due to control that you mention, but due to GT5 lacking proper brake bias (front to rear %) and brake power adjustability its just not possible to get the most out of the brakes without ABS being on.
So I personally use 100% braking for proper zones where I need to slow down a lot, but for a kink or to help weight shift I just tap the brakes, that being said I try to get away with a lift of throttle over a slight brake tap any day of the week.
- 449
From a long time ago I do not use ABS and I have the DFGT. I managed to learn the technic not to lock up and apply a gentle brake pressure for fast-mid corners. I use a brake bias of 3-1, 2-1, 2-0 depending on tires and type of car.
It is a much more pleasant feeling, more sim as I can not do optimistic overtaking, furthermore I have to brake usually before the 100 meters mark, sometimes at 150 m if I do try not to spin. This combined with no overpowered cars and the better IA after last patch plus being respectful with my opponents gives me a challenge in almost every race. Note I do not always win, I'd say 75%.
It is a much more pleasant feeling, more sim as I can not do optimistic overtaking, furthermore I have to brake usually before the 100 meters mark, sometimes at 150 m if I do try not to spin. This combined with no overpowered cars and the better IA after last patch plus being respectful with my opponents gives me a challenge in almost every race. Note I do not always win, I'd say 75%.
- 77
- Finland
- Zkippe
I used to slam the brakes in most corners, but nowadays I drive like I have no ABS even if I have it set to 1. I've noticed that always slamming the brakes just wears the front tyres and that's what I want to avoid as I mostly race semi-long races in different series where tyre wear has significant effect. Don't know really if it's faster or not on a single lap, but over a distance it's the better way to drive.
Also it's not entirely impossible to drive without ABS. Depending on the rubber you should use rather low brake settings. My regular setting for sports tyres is 4/3 for RWD cars. 4/4 for 4WD and 4/2 for FF. Higher settings for racing tyres and lower for comforts. FF cars actually benefit from having no abs as you can modulate brake balance with throttle (you can do the same with others as well, but it's not really useful). This way you can keep the fronts rolling with throttle input and have the rears lock up slightly which induces oversteer and allows you to go faster around corners.
Also it's not entirely impossible to drive without ABS. Depending on the rubber you should use rather low brake settings. My regular setting for sports tyres is 4/3 for RWD cars. 4/4 for 4WD and 4/2 for FF. Higher settings for racing tyres and lower for comforts. FF cars actually benefit from having no abs as you can modulate brake balance with throttle (you can do the same with others as well, but it's not really useful). This way you can keep the fronts rolling with throttle input and have the rears lock up slightly which induces oversteer and allows you to go faster around corners.
- 6,290
- Washington State
- OutlawQuadrant
My racing style revolves around this. It's not what I prefer but unfortunately, every attempt to do it the "proper" way ends up with me hitting the wall because I lock it up as I don't time the releasing of the brake and the turn of the wheel properly. Mind you, my ABS is at 1.
Actually, I have played around without ABS and if I could only nail the sweet spot, I feel that I would be able to brake later than I am now.
- 30,142
- Thailand
I have to agree with that.
The only time I will trail the brake into the corners is when the tyres are playing an important part in an endurance event. The less stress put on the from braking - the longer they maintain grip.
- 64
- deejayy2k
i use 100% brake for most corners because i use the ds3 sticks for accel and brake rather than x and square, its awkward to get my index finger over to square to brake at the same time as throttle using this way but i gain better control over my throttle, plus i can use my x button to bring up the quick setting option to adjust the power of my brakes if they are not quite set up right.
- 191
- plinsavi or GTP_plinsavi
Actually, with ABS 1, I can slam the brakes all day long without locking the wheels as long as the wheels are not turned. But it might depend on the tires I'm using.
- 7,644
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I think it's better to just hold it at 30% or something like that. It's more consistent.
I don't think there is ever any reason to use ABS more than 1, and you can definitely slam the brakes at that level. 0 is different though.
- 142
- Derby
- Hoodie1878
Threshold braking is the best way, ensuring you have the brakes applied up to the slip point. Too hard and you'll lose stopping power, skid and damage your tyes. Too soft and you may out-brake yourself and may end up damaging your tyres later on in the corner as you try to stop.
Slamming the anchors on can work on some corners, although this will depend on your set up.
Someone else would probably explain this better than me!
Slamming the anchors on can work on some corners, although this will depend on your set up.
Someone else would probably explain this better than me!
- 373
- Porto
- Divinusable
This is your objective. And i should add that the tiing is very important. How should achieve this ideal cornering top speed in a specific part of the curve.
Lets see things this way. Tires have 100 units of grip.
Without ABS - when braking you should the maximum brake force you can without passing the limit of 100 units of grip otherwise the wheels will lock (that will need a new entire post to explain why is it bad). You often see IRL that when using late braking to pass other cars the wheels lock because they are passing the grip suported by the tire. If you smash the brake you will surely pass the limit of grip level and lock the wheels.
With ABS - when braking ABS does not let you pass the 100 limit grip. When you are braking, if you apply a certain force level the ABS will release the brakes for some miliseconds to prevent the lock of the wheels. That means, for example, that if you use more than 85 units of grip to brake the system will release the brakes so you go under the 85 units. If you smash the brake you don't lock your wheels because you will never pass the maximum grip level.
With or without abs? - It depends how developed is the ABS. Most systems are sensitive to your brake pressure and not for the grip level of the tire. That leaves a gap between the maximum grip level and maximum braking power allowed by the ABS, that can be used to improve braking when without ABS. However only very experienced drivers can beat the ABS. For us i would say that, ceteris paribus, we (slightly hardcore sim racers) are faster with ABS on.
Although you can set ABS off as a certain rule of a competition and i am sure it will be fun.
Braking when turning - You should know that turning uses some of the grip level of the tire. For example the first corner of daytona (the inside track) you brake when turning. You need to distribute the grip level, for example, 70 grip units for braking, 20 grip units for steering, and 10 units not being used due to human error. If you pass the maximum 100 units of grip you will not turn (understeer). That means when turning, ceteris paribus, you need more distance to reduce to a certain speed as in a straigh line. In this case smashing the throtle will use all of your grip to braking leaving none to steering your car.
The grip level theory shows you that you should use all of your grip anytime. If you brake hard and then start turning, unless you are turning at full capacity you are wasting grip units. Instead, when aproaching to the ideal top speed to turn you should progessively release the brake and at the same time start steering. Example.
100 untis for Brake 0 units to steering
90B 10S
80B 20S
...
10B 90S
0B 100S - At this point you aren't braking or accelarating. You are using your full grip to turn. It usually means that this is your apex
Then you should do the same with accelaration.
Exceptions: curves when you dont need to use all of your grip to turn dont follow this rule (the last one on tsukuba for example). However you should control your grip level betweem steering and thrtle.
Some people have refered the braking bias:
This isn't much important when talking about braking power. This divides your braking power but doesnt icrease or decrease it. So more braking power in front means more grip units spent in the front tires when braking - understeer when braking. More bracking power in the back will result in more oversteer when braking. Theoretically 0 at front and 10 at back should be equal to an handbrake.
Hope this clarify your doubt. I write down this in a rush so sorry for my logic structure and some writing mistakes. I will gladly explain this in a better way if you wnat and includiong how to calculate grip level (for example weight transfer influenciates grip level).
Mysterious R
(Banned)
- 447
- SFX_Calibre
To answer your question: No, it is not a good technique.
To elaborate further: Braking is all about being smooth and controlled, jamming the brakes will work but it is not the best technique. A good old saying I like to refer to this is: 'smooth is fast, fast is smooth'. If you understand how ABS works, you will then understand that it is by no means faster, just easier and less likely to bite you back.
Smooth controlled braking is the way to go but this is a technique requiring much practice and repetition to become comfortable with and improve upon. Remember that in the real world a race driver tends to drive one car for a whole season usually 12 months or more. They get plenty of time and practice the familiarise themself with their car which makes them much better in that car. On GT5 you can drive 1000 different cars at any time and with all of them weighing different, having better/worse brakes etc. you really can't take what you do in one car and apply it to ALL others though it may work for cars of a similar build.
If you want to test your theory out I had a ball of a time yesterday running the Enzo around Circuit de la Sarthe with the chicanes. Try them with both styles as I was doing, you'll find that jumping on the brakes even with ABS makes for atleast 20 metres more stopping distance and this is a huge impact in realtime racing.
To elaborate further: Braking is all about being smooth and controlled, jamming the brakes will work but it is not the best technique. A good old saying I like to refer to this is: 'smooth is fast, fast is smooth'. If you understand how ABS works, you will then understand that it is by no means faster, just easier and less likely to bite you back.
Smooth controlled braking is the way to go but this is a technique requiring much practice and repetition to become comfortable with and improve upon. Remember that in the real world a race driver tends to drive one car for a whole season usually 12 months or more. They get plenty of time and practice the familiarise themself with their car which makes them much better in that car. On GT5 you can drive 1000 different cars at any time and with all of them weighing different, having better/worse brakes etc. you really can't take what you do in one car and apply it to ALL others though it may work for cars of a similar build.
If you want to test your theory out I had a ball of a time yesterday running the Enzo around Circuit de la Sarthe with the chicanes. Try them with both styles as I was doing, you'll find that jumping on the brakes even with ABS makes for atleast 20 metres more stopping distance and this is a huge impact in realtime racing.
- 373
- Porto
- Divinusable
👍 Couldnt agree more.
About your enzo test. Well i will give you an example to try to explain why that happens.
Imagine that you are making a race with 3rd gear only in a straight line. Why flat out isn't the fatest way? Because when you hit the rev limit the engine "stop" and then you lose some speed. The fatest way to do this race would be if you can keep a constant speed the closer you can the rev limit.
This happens with the abs (although with developing thechonlogy it will be less noticed). Imagine that your abs is activated at 85% braking pressure and then it will be 0,1 secs of releasing the brake. and that you need 0,3secs to hit the 85% of braking pressure.
In two seconds you would have 1,5secs of growing braking pressure and 0,5secs without braking.
It is obviously that if you can brake using constant 84% of braking pressure in this two seconds (and thus don't get your ABS activated) you can achieve better results.
ABS is there so you don't pass the maximum grip of the tires and wheels dont lock. If you manage to constant keep at 84% braking pressure (82% would maybe be enough to do better) then you should turn off abs to use the gap between ABS limit and tire grip limit in your favour bacause you have the skills os smooth braking needed.
In that case you wouldn't have your safe limit imposed by ABS. In this case if you fail the result will be locked wheels.
If you turn off abs you should be paying attention to grip level and not braking pressure and brake as far as your tires can without lock. This way you will be using more grip than the maximum braking pressure that ABS allows (if you are a great driver and know the car well, as you have said).
Well after this i just realized how right you are about saying is not a good techinique in any circumstances....but the theory is still correct.
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- 2,605
- Newport
- NFSCARBON1
Good technique is smooth driving. Slamming brakes on can unbalance a car on corner entry (or cause lock ups with 0 ABS). It will also increase tyre wear and effect fuel economy (although the latter isn't very noticeable in GT5).
However hard braking can lead to faster lap times, so in short races and time trials it may be the way to go.
However hard braking can lead to faster lap times, so in short races and time trials it may be the way to go.
- 7,770
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
I tend to smoothly & quickly apply full brake pressure, then immediately pull back a little to find the right point to hold & modulate slightly for maximum threshold braking, then I'll bleed off, trail braking into the corner & finally come off the brake altogether & engine brake till the throttle on point (engine braking after pedal braking gives you a little front end bite that pulls you towards the apex). This is mainly for corners at the end of straights, you can see it clearly on the telemetry for turns 1 at Daytona & Indy road for instance.
Slamming on the brakes immediately to 100%, holding it there & then coming off 100% will unsettle the car, wear out the tyres quicker & generally produce slower lap times.
👍
Slamming on the brakes immediately to 100%, holding it there & then coming off 100% will unsettle the car, wear out the tyres quicker & generally produce slower lap times.
👍
