Slicks' Car - Updates and Videos!(6/28/2008)

  • Thread starter Slicks
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Damn, he's got one fast Talon... er... Eclipse (I see a Mitsu badge on the front)!
I, in all honesty, like the looks of the pre-1992 DSM's better, but oh well. I've got what I've got.
 
The Brake Job from Hell.
This story kind of starts slow, and then peters out all together. But I'll still post it.

Not much of a story behind it. I had to do a brake job on my Talon. I had taken it to a shop the week before with the intention of getting the rotors machined (the fronts were warped quite badly), only to have them tell me that all four rotors were below minimum thickness, that the rear pads were close to metal-on-metal, and that the rear calipers were stiff and possibly needed replacing.

So I took it home (I'm not going to let any shop do a brake job for me. It's simple enough that I can do it myself). Went to the local parts store to find that half-decent parts were going to completely blow my budget. So I went online, with pleasant surprises. Ordered up some rotors and pads off of The TireRack, and started waiting. Less than a week later (Keeping in mind that these had to go across the border, so I was quite impressed with the shipping times), the parts were at my door along with a $110 tax and excise bill. The theiving bastards at UPS charged over $50 in brokerage fees to bring my parts across the border. Last time I use them, as my dad and brother have ordered parts from the 'States many times previously using FedEx, etc without being charged for excise and brokerage.
Anyway, the parts arrived on a Thursday. I wisely held off the job until the weekend.

Saturday morning, 9:00 AM. Get up, get in the car, and run to the parts store to get some brake fluid and paint for the calipers, and to go to the junkyard to pick up a headlight socket for my car. Not only did the junkyard have the wrong socket (for the second time, and after waiting almost two weeks for them to get the second one in, lose it, and find another), but I had to hit up two parts stores to get the right paint.

Head home, pull my car into the garage, and put one side up on jackstands. Remove wheels, and grab the camera. I wanna get some pics of my shiney new parts before they go on.

The wheels are on my summer 'To Do' list. All four have damage in the form of chips, stripped/scratched paint, or corrosion on the machined lip. I intend to refinish them instead of buying aftermarket wheels.

Brembos! After doing some research, I decided on Brembo OEM-replacement rotors & Akebono ProAct pads for the rear, and Brembo slotted gold-finish rotors & Satisfied GranSport 6 pads for the front. It cost me a little over $150 extra to buy these good parts over the el-cheapo parts from the local parts store(s).

The back rotor wasn't bad to get off, but the front rotor(s) required heating and a large hammer. The closer I look at all the rotors, they were due for replacement. The rears weren't wearing very well and had fairly small contact patches, as well as excessive corrosion on the backs. The fronts, other than being warped, didn't look as bad.


After this, I put the camera down. I wasn't about to get black fingerprints all over it.

Everything seemed to be going smoothly, I had the front corner assembled, and was attempting to put the pads back into the rear caliper. Sticky, as the shop said. Too stiff. I took the barrels and sliders out, to find patches of corrosion. "No problem," I thought. Some emery cloth and sandpaper should do the trick. Or, not. Try as I might, and even after smoothing the barrels, I couldn't get the calipers to retract enough to fit the rotor between the pads. Screwdriver, hammer, etc. Nothing else I could think of, including draining the caliper completely, would make it retract.
Drive down to the parts store (good thing for the fleet in my driveway, I've often got some sort of spare to drive in a pinch), order up some rear calipers to arrive in a couple hours. $130 each plus core. That's almost as much as my front rotors cost. And I'm not about to do one and not the other, because that will surely backfire. So I order both and head home, and unbolt the front caliper to paint it black, as 'rust' isn't in my acceptable color palette. Rough up the metal, remove the excess chipping metal, and mask off the fender well. Give the caliper a few coats, and start disassembling the old rear caliper.
Shortly after, I pick up the new calipers (Ooh, Raybestos. Both better and cheaper than the competing stores) and head home. The day is pretty much shot, but I assemble and install the one caliper and go to bleed the front drivers' side. And the bleeder screw shears off. Frickin' Frickin' Frickin' crappy aluminum. Why the hell would they put aluminum bleeder screws in!? At the very least, it broke off in the sealed position, instead of open. And, of course, the screw extractors are an half an hour away at my dad's work. Frickin' aluminum. So I proceed to get the smallest blade screwdriver I've got, and a hammer, and proceed to chip off and drive in the remainder of the bleeder whilst trying to remove it. ****. By now, they day is completely shot and I've neither had lunch or dinner, and I had plans for the evening. Not involving my car and it's crappy bleeder screws.

...

Sunday. I hit my snooze button. Twice. Then pull the power cord on the alarm and shut my eyes again. Too late of a night last night? 10:30 by the time I'm out of bed must mean so.
I put the wheels back on the one side, and jack up the other side. I can deal with the bleeder at a later time.
Unbolt the calipers, gawk at my very nearly metal-on-metal rear pads, and think to myself that most cars had squealers by this vintage. Not all, apparently. Both rotors are frozen onto the car, and the front requires heavy persuasion to leave its' place. I assemble the rear brake and caliper, and prep/mask/paint the front caliper before putting the new rotor on. The front calipers appear to slide smoothly, and have the full range of motion. A good sign. So I pop the new pads in over the rotor and bolt the caliper back in place.


And go to bleed this side. Back goes smoothly, as a new caliper should, but the front has... an issue. This time, the bleeder screw doesn't shear off, but instead strips completely. While retightening it. After bleeding. Frickin' frickin' frickin' frickin' aluminum. And it's not tight. I've got brake fluid coming out at a steady dribble both through and around the screw. ****. I try tightening it more, to see if I can grab a thread or two. I try unscrewing it, but no success. Much swearing, a foul attitude, and pool of brake fluid later, I've got the caliper off and the line capped. So I put it in the vice and try a bit more to get the screw out, but again, so success. **** it, I don't want to deal with this.
So I call up the parts store. For the second time in two days. The front calipers are actually cheaper than the rears, and will be in tomorrow (As it was a Sunday, and they had shortened hours). Oh well, the day was about shot, anyway. So I take the wheels outside and clean them up, and discover that there is a small flat spot of mud built up on one point in my wheel. I ponder if this is part of my wheel balance problem as I hit it with the hose. It is, as it turns out, as now my car is dancing at highway speeds, which means the shop I had them balanced at didn't bother to clean the wheels before balancing them... Lazy pricks. Last time I ever set foot there. My nice sunny Sunday is about shot this time, so I do some cleanup, and find some dinner (No breakfast or lunch makes Slicks a hungry kid). Relatives were arriving about this time, anyway.

Monday. I'm scheduled to work 8:00 - 4:30. But I'm getting a ride with a friend, who works at 7:00. So I'm up at 5:00 and picked up shortly before six.
Frickin' aluminum.
Work past 5:30 until my ride arrives, and head home. I'm nicely surprised to see that my dad has assembled the front brake in question. I do the second (If you're gonna do one...), and bleed the brakes, air up the tires, and torque them before going out to bed in the new pads, getting back shortly before 10:00. Longest. Day. Evar.
Clean up the shop a bit, go inside, and promptly fall asleep on the couch.

I was able to clean up my car yesterday, and got a few shots of it and the new brakes (kinda).

The rotors appear to be wearing in evenly:











Overall, it wan't a fun way to spend a weekend and almost $1000. On the bright side, the new brakes are very smooth and straight. I havent' hit them hard yet, as the bed-in instructions for the GranSports warn against heavy braking in the first 1,000 miles. But they show promise, and will be put to good use when I start autocrossing the car in a couple months' time.

I've already obtained some parts for my next upgrade, only this time a substantially simpler one. It involves replacing the rubber bushings that mount the shifter to the body with machined metal ones, that supposedly make the shifter tighter, with improved accuracy. Ordered up from the 'States again, from the only supplier of these, and unfortunately shipped via UPS again. $25 excise charge ontop of a $40 set is absolute BS, in my opinion. But it's paid for and the parts on my desk, and I'll hopefully get around to it on the weekend.

At some point after that, I'm going to sent the car to a shop to have the clutch done, as I have absolutely no desire to transmission, transfer case, driveshaft, and more to get at the clutch. There has been intermittant slippage when I'm at WOT on the highway, so I know it's coming down the pipe eventually. That, and a boot on the passenger side axle is starting to split, but that can wait a couple months, or until it starts making noise.
 
Wow!

Good to know that I'm not the only one that has easy jobs turn to complete custard. :lol:

New rotors look hot though dude! 👍

After all the (unexpected) expense you had to go through, do you think it would have been better going for bigger brakes in the first place?
 
Bigger brakes are almost never required unless you're suffering from high temperature fade at track events. 99% of all braking in modern cars is limited by tire traction, not braking capacity. Also, poorly engineered brake "upgrades" can screw up the braking balance of your car and actually end up increasing stopping distances.
 
What Duke said.

The hardest I can ever imagine using my brakes is later this summer when I start AutoXing the car, and I doubt I'll even be reaching highway speeds then.
I imagine that these will be adequete in pretty much any situation I get myself into.


And thanks for the compliment.
 
This thread reminds me that I need to take apart my rear brakes for the 4th time in a month tommorow. But at least I don't have to worry about bleeding them untill I get those braided brake lines. On the plus side i'm sure you'll be able to dissasemble your brakes with your eyes closed.

Btw very nice car, I realy like the look of dsm's it's a shame we never got any here.
 
Damn old cars, eh? I just ordered some Brembo front pads for my Sol, but I'm weary of putting them on right away because my discs feel pretty rough. I'm going to have to ask my mechanic friends if they think I should replace the discs along with the pads.

The rears are just as bad but can wait, and my clutch is also in need of replacement. I've not gotten any WOT slippage in 5th yet and it's been in the same condition for about 8,000 miles, so I figure it's got a while. I'm in need of an alignment (toe problem) but I can't muster then energy to take it to the dealership, even for my discounted price. I need to make a run to the parts store and get a bunch of washers for shimming because my driver's side suspension sits lower than the passenger side. Stupid Eibachs. My rear lower control arms will be replaced as soon as my cousin remembers to order them. They're a gift. And they're gold. :D

EDIT: Idiot, you guys never got any Dizzums? Good. Dodging flying engine internals while driving down the highway is not fun.

"Dude, where's your dipstick?"
"Who cares about the dipstick! That Accord just ran over number 3!" :lol:
 
EDIT: Idiot, you guys never got any Dizzums? Good. Dodging flying engine internals while driving down the highway is not fun.

"Dude, where's your dipstick?"
"Who cares about the dipstick! That Accord just ran over number 3!" :lol:

I thought they shared engines with evos of the same period, they can't be that unreliable. They probably wouldn't have sold at the time here anyway especially under the Chrysler badge or whatever they sold cars in the uk as.

Also are the surface of your rotors rough or have any scoring marks on them? Are they developing a lip on em?
 
My discs do have circumferential lines all over, looking like Saturn's rings. But I can barely feel the roughness at the moment, and I'd guess the ridges are only a couple thousandths of an inch out. Closer to the outer edge of the rear rotors the ridges on the friction surface get pretty high, probably like 10 thousandths. There is a lip on the edge of the front rotors, too, probably about 20 thousandths tall. I could check the roughness with a micrometer from work, but I'll probably replace instead of grind them.
 
Nice brake job there Slick. I need to do a similar job to my car, my front brakes (rotors) are completely shot.

Just lately I haven't had much time and when I do I can't be bothered. :indiff:
 
Bigger brakes are almost never required unless you're suffering from high temperature fade at track events. 99% of all braking in modern cars is limited by tire traction, not braking capacity. Also, poorly engineered brake "upgrades" can screw up the braking balance of your car and actually end up increasing stopping distances.

As a former 1G-Talon TSi owner, I can attest that the brakes have a lot of fade if the car's been running for over 2 hours. I liked the idea of going for country drives with the Talon, but the longer you drove it, the worse the brakes performed in panic-braking or medium-braking situations. And that was with 50% of the brake pads remaining (no brake shimmy) by the time I traded it in.

I think the stock brakes just didn't get the upgrades that the rest of the car received.
 
Meh. Some stainless lines and higher-temperature fluid might take care of that. Maybe some better cooling, like Slick's slots.
 
Ah yes, the slots are for gas evacuation, which helps reduce fade at high temperatures. Sorry, there was a little bit of Fast and the Furious stuck in my brain. :lol: Also, I meant braided stainless lines, because solid ones just don't mix well with suspension.
 
Hey!
It's been... A year. I'm far past-due for an update to this thread.



What's changed on it? Notable among the maintenence and upkeep are...

- I spent about a full work week's time refinishing those oh-so-poor condition wheels. It's been about eleven months and they're in need of another (not so extensive) bit of work. I learned a bit doing it the first time, and will avoid a couple errors this time - Such as not using white primer on silver wheels, as every rock chip stands out.

- I did indeed farm out the clutch job. I had an ACT 2100 installed back in October, along with a new rear main seal for good measure. I should have ponied up the extra money at the time to find a lightened flywheel, as the improved response would be appreciated now.

- I recently installed an RM Racing rear sway bar. A big 15/16" bar, it came with polyurethane bushings for the rear bar and endlinks, as well as new bushings for the front bar. To say it makes a world of difference is an understatement. The car is now much more neutral, willing to rotate, and corners a bit flatter as well.

-I recently acquired a second set of 16x6.5 wheels in need of cosmetic repairs. After about thirty hours sunk into them to sandblast and bring to a polish, they've been mounted to a set of Falken Azenis RT615's. I had them at the track for the first time last weekend, and it was well worth the money spent. I've yet to finish the wheels completely (I need to apply coatings, still - Paint for the insides and spoke sides, and some sort of clearcoat for the polished faces), but it's been moved to the back burner now that I'm using them on a weekly basis.

- The car had an agressive alignment set up last week, to compliment the new rear bar and tires. Lots of negative camber, and positive caster.

I've been autocrossing very frequently - About a dozen times thus far this season, as well as a few events and a driver training course last season. Recently, I've been at it almost every weekend, with events essentially once per weekend for the rest of the summer. There are three clubs locally that host events regularly, and this allows me to go as often as I like.

Now... to the point of my post.

Last weekend I decided to partake in a driver training course held by the BMW Club of Vancouver Island. I figure I got 80+ minutes of track time in a single day - Unheard of for us autocrossers.

I was, for the most part, surrounded by Bimmers. The notable exception being a Mini, an SLK 32 AMG, and another DSM. There was some instruction at the start of the day, followed by four different iterations of the available track at Western Speedway here in Victoria. I had the pleasure of racing on track with an ex-factory racer for Carroll Shelby, and being instructed by a (locally) well-known instructor with more than thirty years of racing experience.

I had the bright idea late in the day to tape my digital camera to the passenger headrest. Here are the results.

1 -
2 -
3 -

I had started the day on my balding, dead all-seasons. I took delivery of my second set of wheels/tires from the shop at about 10:30 AM, swapped them onto the car, and proceeded to blow myself away with the level of grip available from my new Azenis. Having never owned a set of sticky tires like these, I wasn't quite sure what to expect - And I'm dually impressed with the difference they make. They're also a big bigger tire than the old ones, at 225/50-16 (Instead of the stock 205/55's).

The brakes held up surprisingly well - There was minimal fade through the day with the fluid staying un-boiled. I credit this solely to the fluid (Motul RBF600), as I had the pedal hit the floor many a time during last year's Driver Training. I think I managed to glaze the front pads, though. I also now need to have the rotors turned, as the general lack of cool down laps meant that I was baking the rotors under the calipers (thus exaggerating the slightly warped condition they were in previously) after I'd gotten into the pits.

There's a bit of a to-do list existing on the car, still. I haven't yet done the paint repairs and touchup to the hood and bumper, and the street wheels are in need of refinishing again. The tires, as I said before, are no longer suitable for use on the street (Meaning I get to wear off my Azenis on daily driving for a while). I discovered a minute split in a CV Joint today when I had the wheels off the car, given away by grease slung everywhere. The brakes need to be taken care of, even though they still perform acceptably. I need to get under the car and either rip all the rattling old heat sheilds off the exhaust, or find myself a nice new 3" turbo-back exhaust. I'm leaning towards new. Finally, I think I got the transmission oil hot enough on the track to degrade it. I guess I should get the trans, diff, and transfercase all in one go.

So much to do... So little time and money with which to do it.
 
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