Slip angles

[KaffeinE 86]

Is it true, that around hairpins and such during qualifying that F1 drivers will drift the cars? Are there any online videos of it? I've looked, but can't find any.

 

[Jacks]

They don't drift the cars.

1. Sliding slows the car down.

2. Sliding also wears the tyres out, and now that they are using one set of tyres for a whole weekend it would be pointless.

I've only ever seen an F1 car slide around a hairpin when the tyres are worn out.

 

[Blake]

There may be some power oversteer around the Grand Hotel hairpin but it is nothing significant. It wouldn't look at all like a drift, the back would only move out a few centimeters.

Blake

 

[Mclaren_Man]

But back in the early days of f1 there was plenty of sidways action, i remeber seeing pictures back in the Gilles Villenueve days, he liked getting those ferraris sideways around the hairpins. I think it was in the last issue of F1 Racing (aussie version)

 

[Omnis]

doriftoooooooooo!

 

[true_kiat]

Well this season I remember Michael Schumacher doing a biiiig powerdrift at Bahrein I think, and today Liuzzi in quali2. But it's always to correct a previous error, not intentional. If the car oversteers and they countersteer a bit and they keep the car in, well, that's it.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Is it true, that around hairpins and such during qualifying that F1 drivers will drift the cars? Are there any online videos of it? I've looked, but can't find any.

Actually, you are correct. I can't explain it fully, mainly because I didn't understand the technical detail, but the tyres give the most grip when there is a very slight amount of slip. When I say "very slight", I do mean it. It's something like 3%. This allows a chemical interaction between the tyre and the road that generates a greater level of grip than would be available if that slip were not in evidence.

Also, some drivers (I use the term "oversteer-dancers", which I think I stole from Autosport's Mark Hughes) will pivot the rear of the car by using the brakes. To do this, they need very strong grip, and they use weight transfer from the rear to the front in combination with steering to exaggerate the rear movement for the given steering angle.

However, as previously stated, unless you're at the track and an experienced viewer, you are unlikely to be able to see this happening with the naked eye. If you see a slide, it is most likely due to driver error. Of course, some drivers (M.Schumacher, Montoya, Raikkonen, Webber, Sato for example) can live with this better than others. Michael is supreme at it - he can have a massive slide and not really lose any time. The others can just keep the car on line/out of the wall.

 

[[FPV]Rusty]

good final point, the standouts from the pack are very good at using every single technique their is, Schumacher will some times use a second hard stab on the brakes combined with turn in to just make hte car turn in quickly and be able to control it, Rossi also is very good at using the brakes in turn in in MotoGP (lets say in one more time ), drivers like that are absolute masters at what they do

 

[snypa]

Actually, you are correct. I can't explain it fully, mainly because I didn't understand the technical detail, but the tyres give the most grip when there is a very slight amount of slip. When I say "very slight", I do mean it. It's something like 3%. This allows a chemical interaction between the tyre and the road that generates a greater level of grip than would be available if that slip were not in evidence.

Also, some drivers (I use the term "oversteer-dancers", which I think I stole from Autosport's Mark Hughes) will pivot the rear of the car by using the brakes. To do this, they need very strong grip, and they use weight transfer from the rear to the front in combination with steering to exaggerate the rear movement for the given steering angle.

However, as previously stated, unless you're at the track and an experienced viewer, you are unlikely to be able to see this happening with the naked eye. If you see a slide, it is most likely due to driver error. Of course, some drivers (M.Schumacher, Montoya, Raikkonen, Webber, Sato for example) can live with this better than others. Michael is supreme at it - he can have a massive slide and not really lose any time. The others can just keep the car on line/out of the wall.

Well, for someone who didn't understand the technical details, that's a pretty good explaination !! 👍

Like you said, mass transfer from the rear to the front, combinated with steering is the key in order to perform such a move. It's also valable in a classic car, especially a FF car, where it's very easy to make the rear slide while turning, thanks to the brakes.

On a F1, the main difference is that the level of grip is incredibly high, which means the slide will be very brutal when you cross the limit of the tire's grip.

Like you said, Michael is very good at controlling slides. The key is to be just a little faster than you should be when you start to enter the corner, this will make the rear slide slightly. As a conséquence, the angle of the car in the corner will be reduced and will allow to accelerate earlier.
Generally, a driver is forced to set a preference between a fast entry or a fast exit of the corner. Michael is the best because he manages to be fast the whole time with this proper technique.

Sorry if my explaination is bad, I hope it's ok, but my English could surely be better, especially on technical terms.

regards,

Snypa

 

[sn00pie]

Also, some drivers (I use the term "oversteer-dancers", which I think I stole from Autosport's Mark Hughes) will pivot the rear of the car by using the brakes.

I think this is common with drivers who are good with karts. In karting you "set" the chassis by pivotting (well worded, Giles) towards the apex under braking, when you apply throttle it results in a slight drift and a grin on your face.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I think this is common with drivers who are good with karts. In karting you "set" the chassis by pivotting (well worded, Giles) towards the apex under braking, when you apply throttle it results in a slight drift and a grin on your face.

Well, of course, the prime exponents of that are the rally boys, who have usually finished the car rotation by about half way through the entry phase of the turn.