Slipstream in GT Sport is Overpowered

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I'm not one to make threads but I believe this is an issue too important to ignore anymore. I'll get straight to the point.

Many an update ago, PD adjusted the slipstream effects in two distinct ways; both the slipstream effect and range increased. What had been moderate pull from around three quarter seconds is now a stronger pull that extends over an entire second. With all the racing since that change, it is becoming clearer that this is causing several fundamental issues to the detriment of this game as a whole.

1. Slipstream Qualifying

Anyone that has watched top split rooms (or seen the 2019 F1 Monza qualifying fiasco) knows what this is. The slipstream effect is so overpowered, even with dirty air effects, one can run a faster qualifying time slipstreaming someone the entire lap rather than running a lap on their own. Qualifying is turning from a measure of getting the ultimate lap to who gets lucky with the draft. It is so bad, drivers often fight on track right before the flier to be in the right position for the draft train and not be the one leading it. To put it in perspective, the time difference between a slipstream lap and a solo run can be the difference between pole and last place. Even in lower split rooms, drivers are beginning to do this.

2. Harder to Break the Tow

The slipstream makes it far more difficult to drivers to pull away from each other. One could be faster than another due to raw skill, a car more suitable for the track, strategy, etc but the slipstream effects can not only negate that advantage but even make it a disadvantage. A few examples:

a. In any fuel saving race, the leader of a pack is always at a major disadvantage as they have to use a lot more fuel/tires while those behind can short shift a lot more while keeping pace.
b. For any combination that favors a power car, the slipstream effects are strong enough for a handling car to sit in the power car's tow and not only stay there the entire race but even take the victory in some cases. In essence, the tow can eliminate any power disadvantage a car may have.
c. In close battles, if the behind driver is slowing catching up to another driver, the slipstream makes it far too easy for the behind driver to eliminate the gap the moment they are within range.

3. Incidents due to Extra Speed

With stronger slipstream, this is creating more incidents at the end of straights. Drivers are underestimating how fast they are going and are overshooting the apex, sometimes taking out innocent drivers.

There are other issues but these are the main points I wanted to make. I can only speak for myself but I don't enjoy the slipstream as it stands at all. At times, it almost feels like a lottery than a test of skill out there.

 

[Dodge Lamb]

It's also really really bad when you're the handling car in a train. Makes it easy to be passed with no way of fighting back (Interlagos baby)

 

[JayOTT]

Just another example of how frustrating PD have been over this past year. I and many others were led to believe that the new 1.5s system was supposed to be gradual, being weak at the edge of slipstream range and strong when you're right underneath the car in front. Had it been like this, I'm sure everyone would like or at least tolerate slipstream in it's current state, as it would be more realistic in both behaviour and average benefit. Sadly, this is not the case. I say PD should bring back the old 0.75s system. It may have still been an on-off slipstream, but with that short of a range it was harder to ride the tow in qualifying and easier to lose it in the race.

 

[Dodge Lamb]

Just another example of how frustrating PD have been over this past year. I and many others were led to believe that the new 1.5s system was supposed to be gradual, being weak at the edge of slipstream range and strong when you're right underneath the car in front. Had it been like this, I'm sure everyone would like or at least tolerate slipstream in it's current state, as it would be more realistic in both behaviour and average benefit. Sadly, this is not the case. I say PD should bring back the old 0.75s system. It may have still been an on-off slipstream, but with that short of a range it was harder to ride the tow in qualifying and easier to lose it in the race.

It's definitely weaker the farther back you are, but the difference is so small you'd be forgiven for not noticing. The effect is too strong in general, and that's obviously something none of us will deny.

 

[breeminator]

It is so bad, drivers often fight on track right before the flier to be in the right position for the draft train and not be the one leading it. To put it in perspective, the time difference between a slipstream lap and a solo run can be the difference between pole and last place. Even in lower split rooms, drivers are beginning to do this.

This was happening every time in my lobbies at around 45k last night. It was a car park before the final corner because nobody wanted to go first. Even if you wanted to go first and give everyone a tow, you couldn't physically get past the car park blocking your path. And because the gaps were closing up down the first straight, people were then trying to overtake in qualifying, and the whole thing became a nightmare. So people don't qualify in the positions they would if everyone had to qualify solo, but then the slipstream train in the race makes qualifying all important, because it's hard to pass a car ahead that itself has a slipstream.

 

[Rangeraus]

It is not ideal, especially in qualifying (yes I have benefited greatly from this more than once).

It does promote closer racing but needs to get toned down.

 

[Pigems]

Agreed, it definitely needs to be fixed.

 

[GTV0819]

In GT, slipstream often help numerous cars with adjustable aerodynamics to reach their own top speeds, granting that there is enough space or flow in the race track. I mean certain speed tracks like SSRX or Daytona, they are able to do that stuff there.

 

[JamboGT]

Needs to be got rid of in qualifying but I enjoy the racing it creates.

 

[Pigems]

It's also really really bad when you're the handling car in a train. Makes it easy to be passed with no way of fighting back (Interlagos baby)

Do any of you guys ever ask PD about this stuff at the Live Events?

 

[Veinz]

Yeah it feels pretty strong compared to all the other racing games I play, even Nascar Heat 4.

 

[SmokeyMR2]

Do any of you guys ever ask PD about this stuff at the Live Events?

I know that at the last WT and at previous WT's the drivers have sat down and talked to them, voiced their concerns with any issues but then PD seems to just ignore them. I know Jomas was saying that the Nations competitors chat with them got a bit heated so I think their trying but will PD listen is the issue.

Good post @OutlawQuadrnt I just hope they listen before the official season starts.

 

[Pigems]

I know that at the last WT and at previous WT's the drivers have sat down and talked to them, voiced their concerns with any issues but then PD seems to just ignore them. I know Jomas was saying that the Nations competitors chat with them got a bit heated so I think their trying but will PD listen is the issue.

Good post @OutlawQuadrnt I just hope they listen before the official season starts.

TYVM. I wonder what it heated up over? Does PD not seem to think it’s an issue or something?

 

[SmokeyMR2]

TYVM. I wonder what it heated up over? Does PD not seem to think it’s an issue or something?

Your welcome bud

From what I gather they have a translator there so the conversation must be a bit tricky and unfortunately I don't know Jomas well enough other than to speculate, but from what he was saying I believe it was a couple of points of which one was the slipstream. I cannot see how they wouldn't understand its an issue with so many complaints, especially from top players. But then its PD logic . I do wonder whether the slipstream was their poor attempt to disguise a bad BOP! Trying to cover up a problem instead of actually solving the main issue.

 

[barak181]

TYVM. I wonder what it heated up over? Does PD not seem to think it’s an issue or something?

I think PD's attitude is along the lines of, "They don't understand what we're doing, they just need to wait!" The closest analogy that comes to mind is an overly dismissive parent shushing their vocal child.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

PD reading the OP like:

 

[Veinz]

PD are stubborn af. Good luck swaying them to do something they didn’t come up with themselves.

 

[TJC_69]

I'm not one to make threads but I believe this is an issue too important to ignore anymore. I'll get straight to the point.

Many an update ago, PD adjusted the slipstream effects in two distinct ways; both the slipstream effect and range increased. What had been moderate pull from around three quarter seconds is now a stronger pull that extends over an entire second. With all the racing since that change, it is becoming clearer that this is causing several fundamental issues to the detriment of this game as a whole.

1. Slipstream Qualifying

Anyone that has watched top split rooms (or seen the 2019 F1 Monza qualifying fiasco) knows what this is. The slipstream effect is so overpowered, even with dirty air effects, one can run a faster qualifying time slipstreaming someone the entire lap rather than running a lap on their own. Qualifying is turning from a measure of getting the ultimate lap to who gets lucky with the draft. It is so bad, drivers often fight on track right before the flier to be in the right position for the draft train and not be the one leading it. To put it in perspective, the time difference between a slipstream lap and a solo run can be the difference between pole and last place. Even in lower split rooms, drivers are beginning to do this.

2. Harder to Break the Tow

The slipstream makes it far more difficult to drivers to pull away from each other. One could be faster than another due to raw skill, a car more suitable for the track, strategy, etc but the slipstream effects can not only negate that advantage but even make it a disadvantage. A few examples:

a. In any fuel saving race, the leader of a pack is always at a major disadvantage as they have to use a lot more fuel/tires while those behind can short shift a lot more while keeping pace.
b. For any combination that favors a power car, the slipstream effects are strong enough for a handling car to sit in the power car's tow and not only stay there the entire race but even take the victory in some cases. In essence, the tow can eliminate any power disadvantage a car may have.
c. In close battles, if the behind driver is slowing catching up to another driver, the slipstream makes it far too easy for the behind driver to eliminate the gap the moment they are within range.

3. Incidents due to Extra Speed

With stronger slipstream, this is creating more incidents at the end of straights. Drivers are underestimating how fast they are going and are overshooting the apex, sometimes taking out innocent drivers.

There are other issues but these are the main points I wanted to make. I can only speak for myself but I don't enjoy the slipstream as it stands at all. At times, it almost feels like a lottery than a test of skill out there.

Agree on all points. I hope PD are going to revert it back to the 0.8 second spec. That was a much better version, and you could actually break the tow and make some moves!

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I also discovered that water is wet.

 

[zzz_pt]

This was already pretty bad before and it was one of the reasons I quit FIA races back in 2018. I just don't like unrealistic, unfair mechanics to artificially make people race close to each other.

If I'm the slowest in the lobby and can't keep up with the pack, my bad. I gotta improve my pace and skill. If I'm the fastest, I don't want to carry others on my back, especially with fuel and tire depletion.

 

[TJC_69]

Additionally I would like to add that I was running Race C practice last night. I'll be running race C later after i qualify.

I did the undercut and jumped from P3 to P2, right behind the leader. I was faster through the last section of the lap, closing to 0.3 seconds every lap. And time and time again I couldn't get past. Lap after lap the dirty group 2 air would wash out the car, making car control an exercise in extreme caution.

I get that high downforce cars create a wake that causes this. But to the degree it is enforced in Sport it does not promote good racing. The way to overtake in race C will be wait until they make a mistake if you're not leading.

However, i'll step up to the challenge to beat the OP slipstream settings. It just could be so much better if it was actually on "real".

 

[HellzFire]

PD, at least, are aware of the slipstream issue. In Sydney, they changed both series qualifying last minute from the chaos of 10 minutes free qualifying to the Super pole settings, whereas everyone has a gap between each other, and it was prohibited to get any kind of slipstream in any of your 2 laps to the point of even if you made a mistake on one of your laps you would've had to get out of the way of others obligatorily to not give anyone draft.

I also asked there in briefing if they would change anything about it going into the new 2020 official series. They said they are analyzing.

Quick and easy fix imo:

Bring the 0.750s slipstream gap back
Bring the 2019 official series Penalty system back

It fixes 80% of the issues the game has at the moment.

 

[Pigems]

PD, at least, are aware of the slipstream issue. In Sydney, they changed both series qualifying last minute from the chaos of 10 minutes free qualifying to the Super pole settings, whereas everyone has a gap between each other, and it was prohibited to get any kind of slipstream in any of your 2 laps to the point of even if you made a mistake on one of your laps you would've had to get out of the way of others obligatorily to not give anyone draft.

I also asked there in briefing if they would change anything about it going into the new 2020 official series. They said they are analyzing.

Quick and easy fix imo:

Bring the 0.750s slipstream gap back
Bring the 2019 official series Penalty system back

It fixes 80% of the issues the game has at the moment.

Thanks for the info! Any idea why they are so reluctant to, or take so long to make changes to the game?

 

[breeminator]

Quick and easy fix imo:

Bring the 0.750s slipstream gap back
Bring the 2019 official series Penalty system back

It fixes 80% of the issues the game has at the moment.

Slipstream and penalty/SR system are definitely two huge issues. I'd add the FIA points system - there should be less overlap in points from split to split. Not as extreme as Jomas' suggestion of last place getting around 90% of the points of 1st place, but something between what we have and that. And lastly, the collision physics - slight contact shouldn't result in such a huge transfer of energy.

 

[MIE1992]

I know that at the last WT and at previous WT's the drivers have sat down and talked to them, voiced their concerns with any issues but then PD seems to just ignore them.

Maybe they're working on it, and plan to integrate these changes either in an update for GTS, or in the next game's version of Sport Mode.

 

[Pigems]

Maybe they're working on it, and plan to integrate these changes either in an update for GTS, or in the next game's version of Sport Mode.

But that right there is PD’s biggest problem, their lack of communication with the players leaves us with nothing to do but randomly speculate on their next move.

 

[HellzFire]

Thanks for the info! Any idea why they are so reluctant to, or take so long to make changes to the game?

No idea. But I have a feeling they will revert the slipstream range to where it was before.

 

[schnick]

While I (and I'm sure most others) try to take advantage of the slipstream I don't really enjoy doing it because I'd rather test my skill instead of trying to look for a slipstream in qualy and race.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people doing it because if it's in the game, it's in the game.
All that being said slipstream is going to be a big factor on if I use Renault this year.

 

[Granadier]

The strong slipstream also results in small pods of cars in trains around the track. If you fall out of the slipstream there’s very little chance of catching back up without mistakes because of the massive speed advantage provided to the cars still in the slip.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

This was happening every time in my lobbies at around 45k last night. It was a car park before the final corner because nobody wanted to go first. Even if you wanted to go first and give everyone a tow, you couldn't physically get past the car park blocking your path. And because the gaps were closing up down the first straight, people were then trying to overtake in qualifying, and the whole thing became a nightmare. So people don't qualify in the positions they would if everyone had to qualify solo, but then the slipstream train in the race makes qualifying all important, because it's hard to pass a car ahead that itself has a slipstream.

A slipstream train adds tons of variables that can ruin a lap and just about all of them are out of the driver's control. That is the most frustrating part because lap times are feeling less earned and more lucked into.

But that right there is PD’s biggest problem, their lack of communication with the players leaves us with nothing to do but randomly speculate on their next move.

Compared to other gaming companies, PD is behind the curve in terms of taking notes from its player base. Without trying to generalize, I do feel this is partly due to how Japanese culture operates. Whatever the case, even some official acknowledgement that certain things are being addressed will help perception.

While I (and I'm sure most others) try to take advantage of the slipstream I don't really enjoy doing it because I'd rather test my skill instead of trying to look for a slipstream in qualy and race.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people doing it because if it's in the game, it's in the game.
All that being said slipstream is going to be a big factor on if I use Renault this year.

I'm already reconsidering Manu choices based on what I'm observing.