Small Talk

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JohnBM01

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After watching the Autorotica special on "The World's Greatest Auto Shows: Geneva," I noticed all the European cars that were small (among others. What about that supercar from Morocco?). America has the Mini Cooper, courtesy of BMW. A lot of muscle car lovers would complain that some Japanese cars are pretty small, and I honestly can accept that if you poke fun at Japanese cars. However, one can recall such makes as Daihatsu who specialize in what are called "Small Cars." While I am not a fan of anything of Daihatsu (other than maybe the Storia), small cars pack a fun factor unlike any other. Think about when the Mini was a hot car in the 1960s (and still is to this day). I can recall the Subaru 360 of Japan which has the drivetrain of most Porsches today, and that was a small car, though it's hard to believe that it would be the ancestor of the "fire-breathing" (Source: Gran Turismo 2) Subaru Impreza.

I don't know about you, but I like all cars. When you can have a small car that may not muscle up against a more powerful hot rod or sportscar, but can still be an eye-catcher, you know you have a worthy machine. Move over, Skyline and Corvette! This is a little car thread. So let's begin!

I liked some of the Smart cars. One of my favorites is the Coupe Roadster, I think it's called. It is a small car, but looks more like a full-size sports car. Europe has the Renault Twingo, which is no Clio MR hatchback. But its headlights are reminiscent of a small Mazda (explained later). Now if you can't have a Lotus Elise, maybe the old Mazda AZ-1 might be for you. It is mid/rear like the Elise, only with almost 3 times as less horsepower as the Elise. Did I mention this car is pretty tiny?

It's the little cars that spark our huge imaginations. So what you like?
 
I love the small cars. I drive the smallest car from Mazda in the US in '88. I like zooming around in it, it's very fun to drive even if it's not "fast".

I would really like to import a Kei car from Japan, an AZ-1 would be first on my list but for practicality, I'd take a Laputa. Get it over here and turn the turbo boost up so that it makes like 100hp, and I'll be out driving for a very, very long time.
 
Well, I drive what's gotta be about the smallest pickup around. 1993 Toyota Pickup (that's the name, not the type of car). Personally, I like it better than most of the other pickups because I'd be way too afraid that I would roll one of them. Then again, I'm afraid I'll roll this one....which would be bad. It's decently quick, and fun in general. And.....I think its better than some little 323 cause I can haul plywood ;)

But as far as fun little cars go, I think that most of them come from Europe, much more so than Japan. Most the Japanese little cars arent that fast, its the big cars like the supra and rx-7 that are fast. I guess you could argue that the STi's and Evo's are fast little cars, but I'd still prefer the Elise. Heck, Europe generated even the greatest little American car: Shelby Cobra :P
 
*cough*
 

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Maybe what makes these cars fun is that they can still provide the charm that much bigger cars can provide, but just shrink them down. Think of these little cars as "fun size" or "party size" sports cars. And the Mini of today is stylish. You can get the Cooper S with 160 horses.

Japan's Kei cars are tiny and slow to some people. But I think when I raced the "Lightweight Sports Car Cup" races in Gran Turismo 3, I could only race the Daihatsu Mira TR-XX Avanzato R, or the Suzuki Alto Works. If you win the three events, you win the Mini Cooper. Keep in mind that a lot of the Kei cars are in GT3 for Japan. There is the Mazda Demio, which looks like a car-like SUV, and a small one at that. The Alto Works from Suzuki is highly capable and looks pretty decent compared to some Kei machines. Can the Vitz count as a Kei? It is not REALLY a small car considering it has 88hp, but to be honest, I like the Vitz better than the Echo sedans here in the States. And if they did sell those, it would be cool to have one in Yellow Mica metallic. You know, it has a sort of gold color. While I'm not the yellow type with car color, this looks more gold than yellow, so it's a nice color. Tommykaira fans who look at only the ZZ II may have missed the ZZ-S. It is probably the weirdest-looking little Japanese sportscar. Packing 192hp, its tiny appearance makes it look pretty big, especially on the sides. Honda has a very interesting small car, because it is a car with a rare drivetrain, mid/four. This car is called the Z Turbo. It is supposed to be some sort of hybrid, if I remember, and it has the engine parked midship, and it has four wheel drive. But if you want a traditional MR layout from Honda that is NOT the NSX, it's called the Beat. And in Gran Turismo 2, you might have raced "Beat the Beat."

Europe's little cars are different. For one, Fiat had the 500R. It costed about $8,000 and a few more dollars, had 22hp, and was rear/rear. If it looked like anything, it looked more like a Beetle-killer. And I never really got into Lotus until learning about how lightweight these cars were and how they performed. Reasonably, they had their share of success. The Elise (I like the Motorsport Elise, and LOVE the Elise GT1) is a small car with a big heart in the back of it. I think the Elise, with its looks, was meant to be DRIVEN. I mean, you ride that car at Silverstone, you pretend you were Jensen Button and road race that little car until you can't take the enjoyment anymore. I didn't see the movie, but "Just Married" had a thin, yellow, little car. I don't know what that was, but that was SMALL.

If you got a small car you want to talk about, a Kei car, anything like that, come on in.
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
Maybe what makes these cars fun is that they can still provide the charm that much bigger cars can provide, but just shrink them down. Think of these little cars as "fun size" or "party size" sports cars. And the Mini of today is stylish. You can get the Cooper S with 160 horses

Yeah, I like the fact that (and most people forget this) you dont need horsepower to have fun! I hope that most of you will agree!

And my second favorite small car...

the Daihatsu Copen/Kopen
 

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Originally posted by miniMADness
Yeah, I like the fact that (and most people forget this) you dont need horsepower to have fun! I hope that most of you will agree!

And my second favorite small car...

the Daihatsu Copen/Kopen

They are great car's, I saw one in the procar paddock at clipsa; and it was tiny.
 
Originally posted by radicool02
They are great car's, I saw one in the procar paddock at clipsa; and it was tiny.

Yeah the Copen is awesome. I sat in one at the motorshow, i love how everything is in reach! Its as if the car was designed for me! Except for the 660cc motor that is! We should get the 1L the japanese get!
 
Originally posted by miniMADness
Yeah the Copen is awesome. I sat in one at the motorshow, i love how everything is in reach! Its as if the car was designed for me! Except for the 660cc motor that is! We should get the 1L the japanese get!

The 660 cc motor is quite power ful too. At 64hp restricted.
How much does the 1L produced? Turbo?
 
Ah ha, I wondered when someone would start a K-car thread! I'm a big fan of little Kei cars and I have a load of mags. Time to get on the scanner methinks :D
 
Ford Fiesta RS Turbo
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130bhp, but it only weighs in at around 9/800kgs.

Although they're mostly driven by ricers/boy racers they are quite nice cars.
 
Yeah, but unlike Kei cars they have large (comparatively) engines. Kei cars are packing a mighty 660cc :D

First off: How do you like your coffee? How about a lightly roasted Cappacino, sir?
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I have one of these in the UK. But 152ps? In a Wagon-R? Did someone say 'FUN!'?
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Suzuki Alto Works. Bet, it drives like a go-kart. Whoopee!
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Kei cars are very well supported in the aftermarket in Japan - Project U brakes! Suzuki Cappachino.
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Sod the dodgy badges, this Honda Beat looks like a bundle of fun!
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If this little Cappa. was bigger it would be a Viper!
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Copen - my favourite little car!
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If Porsche made 660cc Kei cars, would this be their entry into the sector! Copen, nice.
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Honda Beat on the touge.
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Closely followed by Suzuki.
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Mazda AZ-1 - what a fun little car!
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Man I love Kei cars. Hmmm, I'm getting very tempted right now! :D
 
Bah, you're all mad.

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Who needs aerodynamics anyway?

Though I'll always have a soft spot for the old VW Beetles too.

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Guess it's official now, I'm a VW fan. :D
 
Originally posted by TsLeng
How much does the 1L produced? Turbo?

The 1L engine is out of the Stoira/Sirion, so its 3 cyl, meaning it sounds awesome! Its naturally aspirated, but a turbo would be awesome. I dont have any power figures, but i guess its faster.


Originally posted by Sleek Stratos
Who needs aerodynamics anyway?

:scared:
 
Originally posted by Purple Platypus
And.....I think its better than some little 323 cause I can haul plywood ;)

Dude, I can haul plywood too(however I currently have no need to), and the only difference would be that mine would be in a weather-proof area. :)

I'd race you(around corners) and we'll see who's better(at looking like an idiot racing economy vehicles). :lol:
 
Originally posted by miniMADness
The 1L engine is out of the Stoira/Sirion, so its 3 cyl, meaning it sounds awesome! Its naturally aspirated, but a turbo would be awesome. I dont have any power figures, but i guess its faster.




:scared:

I think it has 55hp. There's a turbo version too I think.
 
Personally I like:

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...although it's not as small as some of these sub 1 liter cars that you guys are talking about. Smaller than most everything on the road in the U.S. though.
 
Gran Turismo 2 has a lot more of the smaller cars. Even though GT2 has more cars than Gran Turismos 1 and 3 combined, the many cars in GT2 have all sorts of machines for your liking (or disliking). Here are more examples based on GT2 and with other models:


GT2; NORTH CITY (England and Germany):
Opel Tigra (explained later)
Mercedes-Benz A160 Avantgarde
Lotus Elan (except the 1990 model)
Volkswagen Lupo
" Beetle
Mini Cooper

GT2; EAST CITY (Japan):
Subaru 360
" Pleo
" Vivio
Honda Z Turbo
" Beat
" Life T-Type
Toyota Vitz F
Nissan Cube X
" Micra
" March G#
Daihatsu Midget D-Type (whick will (sadly) be in GT4 based on Play magazine)
" Mira TR 4WD
" MOVE Aerodown Custom
" Opti AERODOWN Beex
" Terios Kid Aerodown (which is pretty heavy for a small car, 2204 lbs)
Mazda AZ-1
" Demio
Tommy kaira M13
" ZZ-III
" ZZ-S
Suzuki Cappucino (that GT2 spells as "Capcino")
" Alto Works
" Wagon R
" Kei
Mitsubishi Dangan ZZ
" Minica Pj
" Pajero Mini Sport

GT2; WEST CITY (France and Italy):
Citroen Saxo
Fiat 500 Sporting
" 500R
Renault Clio 16V (not the mid/rear one. That version is the Clio 24V)
" Megane
Lancia Y

GT2; SOUTH CITY (America)
Ford Ka
" Puma


Here are more examples based on "Autorotica's" Geneva coverage. You can find some of these on your own online:
Renault Twingo
MCC Smart Roadster-Coupe
" " Brabus
" " ForTwo
" " ForFour
" " Roadster
Opel Tigra (before the Tigra was killed at Geneva with GM ownership. Thanks, GM)
Opel Trixx Concept
Daihatsu Copen (I think this car looks dopey at the front, even in "Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3")
Lotus Elise
Renault Wind
Nissan Micra
Fiat Trepuino
Citroen Pluriel

For the most part, I think a "small car" is probably a car with a small wheelbase that has less than or equal to 200 horsepower. I can imagine what Japanese and European streets must be like with these small cars. It looks like the European small cars have more spunk than most Kei cars of Japan. Some are even a bit larger than the Kei machines. Like I said, I love power and handling performance, but when you can't afford a full-size sportscar, it's fun to have a tiny car for you to race with.

And before I close this reply, here is a "Did You Know." Did you know that in 2009, it will be the golden anniversary of the Mini? It will be 50 years old by 2009. (Source, Gran Turismo 2)
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
looks like the European small cars have more spunk than most Kei cars of Japan. Some are even a bit larger than the Kei machines. Like I said, I love power and handling performance, but when you can't afford a full-size sportscar, it's fun to have a tiny car for you to race with.


European small cars are generally bigger than Japanese Kei cars. Definately in engine size, if not dimensionally. For a car to meet Kei car requiremets in Japan there are certain criteria it must meet, for example an engine capacity of no more than 660cc and maximum power output of 64ps. In England, if my memory serves me correctly, the lowest tax bracket for personal vehicles is for cars with a displacement of 1500cc or less. So, even though it's small, it's still a big difference to the tiny Kei cars of Japan.

What I really want to say is along the lines of what JohnBM01 said, if you don't have the budget to run a high-powered, large car or it isn't practical for your lifestyle, then why bother? Kei cars can be great fun on the limit and they're cars that are useable almost all the time. That's a big factor, especially when you live in a crowded suburban area such as here in Hong Kong or Tokyo for example. 32% of all registered cars in Japan are Kei cars and hell, can that many people really be wrong?
 
Originally posted by MazKid
Dude, I can haul plywood too(however I currently have no need to), and the only difference would be that mine would be in a weather-proof area. :)

I'd race you(around corners) and we'll see who's better(at looking like an idiot racing economy vehicles). :lol:

How do you put plywood into a 323? I'm talking 8 foot by 4 foot here, without cutting it in half. Is it even 8 foot from the steering wheel to the back window???

And.....Sure I'd race. I'll keep all my 150 horses warm and running for ya :mischievous: Wait.....the engine's rated at 150 when new....and I've got about 95k miles, so I might get around 120 at the wheels. Well, I lost a few, but I'm still good. As long it isn't snowing. Or even wet for that matter. I probably don't have 500 lbs on the back axle :rolleyes:
 
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