So, a black man can't be articulate?

[Swift]

In a recent interview with president Bush. He was asked about Barrack Obama
I tried to find a specific news report, but was unable.

Full article
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/31/bush-biden-obama/

CAVUTO: How do you think the troops would feel about a President Obama?

BUSH: Oh, I don’t know. He, let’s — he hasn’t gotten elected yet. He hasn’t even gotten the party’s nomination either. He’s an attractive guy. He’s articulate. I’ve been impressed with him when I’ve seen him in person. But he’s got a long way to go to be president.

Almost every website I got to gives the term "articulate" a negative racial connotation. I have no clue what people are getting upset about.

Do you?

 

[Matt R]

I've been wondering the same thing.

 

[Danoff]

I don't see a problem with Bush's statement. If someone thinks that calling someone attractive and articulate is racist, it's because they think that a particular race has a connotation of being unattractive or inarticulate - in which case that person becomes the racist.

Two things that help get people elected - good looks, good speaking skills. I'm surprised Bush would say those things about a democratic candidate for president, but it is certainly a complement.

 

[Swift]

Two things that help get people elected - good looks, good speaking skills. I'm surprised Bush would say those things about a democratic candidate for president, but it is certainly a complement.

Yep, the last time I checked. It's not the same as what Biden said when he talked about Obama being, "The FIRST African American that's clean, attractive, and articulate." That's just wholly inaccurate. I wouldn't call it racist though.

 

[Sage]

Yeah, I see absolutely nothing wrong with those comments at all. People are just trying to make a hash out of nothing.

 

[G.T]

Articulate - "using language easily and fluently; having facility with words: an articulate speaker."

I don't see anything wrong. At all. I take that as a rather good comment to make.

 

[Kelvari]

Articulate - "using language easily and fluently; having facility with words: an articulate speaker."

I don't see anything wrong. At all. I take that as a rather good comment to make.

Agreed, but there is the unwritten rule of society

"Complain about the obvious. If nothing is obvious, find something to complain about. If you cannot find anything to complain about, create something to complain about."

 

[Pupik]

If Hillary Clinton said it, it would be praise. If a member of the GOP says it, it's slander.

Polly-ticks.

 

[Sage]

Polly-ticks.

One of my favorite quotes. (Except it’s “poly”. )

 

[SS69]

Well-spoken black people hate it when white people call them “articulate.” It’s the modern-day version of what white people used to say back in the day when they thought that by saying “He’s a credit to his race” they were saying something that a black person would welcome hearing.

Those dated words, like Biden’s comments, were patronizing at the very least. And they also appeared to carry some pretty negative assumptions about the majority of the race.

This makes no sense. Those dated words? Patronizing? Carried negative assumptions? That doesnt make any goddamn sense. I seriously have no words to describe how stupid those two paragraphs are.

Although I wouldnt make too big of a deal about this. This is sourced from a website called "thinkprogress." Probably some liberal biased source. I havent seen anything about this on a mainstream source such as CNN or the AP.

 

[///M-Spec]

If Hillary Clinton said it, it would be praise. If a member of the GOP says it, it's slander.

Polly-ticks.

Nail head, meet hammer.


M

 

[DaRoMa]

can i have a bit more information on this please? being from the uk, i dont really understand US politics, but i would like to know who and why there was a need for an apology in the first place?

 

[KSaiyu]

^I was just gonna ask, I can't see anything wrong.

 

[Kent]

Once again we are looking at the "find a way to be insulted" scenerio.

However, I can understand where people find their offense... Problem is, this is just like the last situation where we discussed being insulted unnecessarily (super snickers ad).

Just like the snickers ad, or the phallic symbols of the Prince half-time show, the insult comes from within.
If you hear Bush call Obama articulate and think there is a reason to be insulted, then it is you who is the problem because you are the one who instantly made the pressumption that black men can't be articulate.

Basically, the people who take offense to this comment are either playing politics or they are the people who actually do believe black men can't be articulate.

It's like saying, "you look like you've lost weight."
Most people would take it as a compliment but an insecure person very well may take that to me "you look or looked fat."

So who came up with the insult? The person saying "you lost weight" or the person who assumed something that wasn't said? I think we all know the answer there.

Basically, in my opinion, anyone offended by this comment is a person who already subconsciously believed black men can not be articulate.

That said, I'm quite proud to see so many here who had no problem with the comment... Not because of the politics but simply because by the logic I've just displayed, many (if not all) of you do not carry prejudicial notions of black men and their ability to be articulate.

So 👍 👍 to you GTP members.

Before you know it there are going to be muslim men angry about being called reasonable.

 

[m7ammed]

Once again we are looking at the "find a way to be insulted" scenerio.

However, I can understand where people find their offense... Problem is, this is just like the last situation where we discussed being insulted unnecessarily (super snickers ad).

Just like the snickers ad, or the phallic symbols of the Prince half-time show, the insult comes from within.
If you hear Bush call Obama articulate and think there is a reason to be insulted, then it is you who is the problem because you are the one who instantly made the pressumption that black men can't be articulate.

Basically, the people who take offense to this comment are either playing politics or they are the people who actually do believe black men can't be articulate.

It's like saying, "you look like you've lost weight."
Most people would take it as a compliment but an insecure person very well may take that to me "you look or looked fat."

So who came up with the insult? The person saying "you lost weight" or the person who assumed something that wasn't said? I think we all know the answer there.

Basically, in my opinion, anyone offended by this comment is a person who already subconsciously believed black men can not be articulate.

That said, I'm quite proud to see so many here who had no problem with the comment... Not because of the politics but simply because by the logic I've just displayed, many (if not all) of you do not carry prejudicial notions of black men and their ability to be articulate.

So 👍 👍 to you GTP members.

Before you know it there are going to be muslim men angry about being called reasonable.

very well put

Before you know it there are going to be muslim men angry about being called reasonable.

so are you calling us unreasonable ?

just kidding

 

[Kent]

very well put



so are you calling us unreasonable ?

just kidding

Well thank you.
Also, thank you for weighing in... I'm very happy to see you do so, as it shows me that you personally understood the intent of my joke.

It is a great example simply because if I was to say you are reasonable for catching the joke, and you were to react with the attitude of those offended by the "articulate" comment, then indeed you would assume I was actually saying Muslim men are unreasonable in general.

Luckily, I can tell you would accept what I am saying to mean that I appreciate you being a level headed person who does not make assumptions about hidden meanings and not only does that make me happy but it also gains you respect from me. 👍

Once again this just goes to show that comments like what we are talking about here are subject to the interpretation of those who hear and read them... If there is an existing insecurity or prejudice then the comment will be understood to have hidden derogatory meaning.
However, if the person who reads the comment is fair minded, the comment will come across at face value as a joke, compliment, or whatever.

 

[m7ammed]

If there is an existing insecurity or prejudice then the comment will be understood to have hidden derogatory meaning.
However, if the person who reads the comment is fair minded, the comment will come across at face value as a joke, compliment, or whatever.

first off all thank you compliment , its like if you have an idea about a person that he is bad and your being stubborn about anything he will say good or bad will end up being bad in your head and you will not accept anything from him .

 

[Duke]

Yeah, I see absolutely nothing wrong with those comments at all. People are just trying to make a hash out of nothing.

+1. Are people really getting exercised about this? I can't find even a shred of anything offensive in that comment.

 

[Sureboss]

I don't think even our gutter press would squeeze anything out of that.

They're good at squeezing stuff out of small things btw.

 

[Gil]

If you are trying to say that African-Americans are normally not attractive or articulate. I would direct you to Tyra Banks outburst on her show the other week about getting riffed on for putting on a bit of weight.
She is indeed atttractive.
And her remarks were not only articulate, but heartfelt.

And for the record, if that is what you're saying, I double-dog dare you to come say that to my face...

Also, I'ma have to agree with Duke. Why are some of you getting excited that Bush said something nice about someone?
I'm not of the Democrat persuasion, but of the Democratic Candidates for President.
Obama looks best to me.
But, then he talks sense.
His only shortcoming is that he seems to be a good man.
Jimmy Carter proved that it was a bad idea for a fundamentally good man to be president.

 

[Danoff]

Iy you are trying to say that African-Americans are normally not attractive or articulate. I would direct you to Tyra Banks outburst on her show the other week about getting riffed on for putting on a bit of weight.
She is indeed atttractive.
And her remarks were not only articulate, but heartfelt.

Now, I'm just picking on you here, but Tyra Banks surely isn't an example of your "normal" African-American. She's a supermodel with years upon years of media training. I don't think anyone that can be considered "normal" (of any skin color) looks as good or speaks as well as she does.

...but like I said, I'm just picking on you.

 

[Gil]

Yeah, but if that's what "fat chicks" look like...Bring on the "whales"!

That dare still stands BTW!

 

[Swift]

Also, I'ma have to agree with Duke. Why are some of you getting excited that Bush said something nice about someone?
I'm not of the Democrat persuasion, but of the Democratic Candidates for President.
Obama looks best to me.
But, then he talks sense.
His only shortcoming is that he seems to be a good man.

No argument here. Except for the fact he really has no stance or no policies he'd like to introduce. But he certainly does talk a good game.

Jimmy Carter proved that it was a bad idea for a fundamentally good man to be president.

Best point I think I've EVER heard you make. Well said. But I really don't think Jimmy Carter was all that good of a man. But since I wasn't cognizant of the presidency when he was in(0-4 years old) I can't comment.

 

[Duke]

Well, that's the Colin Powell syndrome. Colin Powell had an excellent chance of becoming America's first black president, and I think he would have been a good one. Except that when asked, he repeatedly insisted that he didn't have enough political agenda to make a good president. Eventually his momentum disappeared (not that he minded, but I think it was a missed opportunity).

This lesson was not lost on Obama, who is definitely capitalizing in his own 'brand recognition'. However, I don't think he has the experience - certainly not the worldwide experience - to make that good a presindent.

 

[Gil]

Best point I think I've EVER heard you make.

Best EVER!?!?
Hmmm!??!??
I need to get back on the ball!!
I'd like to think I've made lots of good points in the past.

Actually, Carter was ill-suited to be president.
The jury is still out for me on Obama.
He is very eriudite. But as I think about it, he really hasn't advocated solidly for any position, or view.

By the same token (no pun intended), I haven't really seen a Republican yet, that impresses me.

I'm less than impressed with Hillary Clinton. She's already been president once.
Can't she just be happy being a senator of a state she hadn't previously lived in?

 

[NoQuarter]

Carter was ill suited to be President, not because he was a good man, but because he was a practical man. He was a gifted student and got his degree from the Naval Academy. He later did some post graduate work in Nuclear physics and reactor technology, and unfortunately tried to apply engineering principles to running the country; he'd apply logic and practicality to a problem, find a solution and push that solution forward. However, he did not schmooze or play the political game with Congress, and this ultimately lead to his being one of the most inneffectual Presidents of the 20th century...

 

[magburner]

Its been a while...

Anyway, I like Barrack Obama a lot. I don't usually go all warm and fuzzy about American politicians, but Barrack has got me hooked! He isn't a black man though, that point needs to be cleared up straight away. He's mixed race. I think some people may be confusing skin colour with ethnicity. There is a difference. Anyone who knows a mixed race person, will tell you straight away, that they are not black. And so it is with Barrack Obama. He was raised by white grandparents, and has not lived the life an African American.

"Obama makes it clear that, while he has experienced some light versions of typical racial stereotypes, he cannot claim those problems as his own - nor has he lived the life of a black American."

What Obama isn't: black like me

From the news reports I've seen on him here in the UK, he's billed as 'non-African American'. Infact, the BBC News report I watched last night stated:

'White Americans love Barrack Obama because he doesn't make them feel guilty about slavery'.

It went on to say that his mother was white, and his father was Kenyan. the way I see it is that he is both American and African, but not in the 'classical' sense.

"His mixed race heritage - with a white mother from Kansas, and a black father from Kenya - has led some observers to suggest that he is an African and an American, but not an African-American."

Obama launches presidential bid

I'm mixed race myself (my mother was Welsh, and my father is Jamaican), and I can certainly identify with the tone that the statement with which you were originally refering. Its as if they believe that mixed-race individuals are somehow inferior mentally. The thing is, that BOTH white and black people think like that!

The question is, how do you quantify a mixed race person? They can and do have mixed heritage, and Barrack has none of the usual 'African-American traits/angst' from what I've seen of him, so you go for what seems obvious. I'd say 'Attractive and articulate' sums up Barrack Obama perfectly.

"...After all, Obama's mother is of white U.S. stock. His father is a black Kenyan. Other than color, Obama did not - does not - share a heritage with the majority of black Americans, who are descendants of plantation slaves."

What Obama isn't: black like me

There is a whole other debate bubbling away under the surface of this one, regarding ethnicity and skin colour. The further Obama gets, the more the debate will grow.

further reading:

Obama: Black Like Me

Whites may embrace Obama, but do 'regular black folks'?

 

[FoolKiller]

Obama speaks a good speech and comes off very clean cut. Bush was recognizing those facts, which are extremely important in elections. If there was an intended insult there I believe I missed it.

Now the Australian PM on the other hand, he was aiming to insult Obama but it had nothing to do with race. He was attacking his political views, which are fair game when it comes to a political election, its just that the media forgot how that works.

Obama's style reminds me of Kennedy. He speaks and everyone wants to hear what he is going to say. However, aside from making promises about Iraq and healthcare that he honestly can't meet, I haven't heard him come up with a single idea that I agree or disagree with. When an issue comes up he jumps in and says something like, "As a good and compasionate people it is the Federal Government's responsibility to make sure everyone has health insurance by 2010." It is a beautiful statement that he might even believe and lots of people jump aboard saying he's right, but he doesn't lay out a plan or any kind of process to make it happen that quickly. Sure, tons of pundits discuss how it could happen, but none of those ideas will work.

If he wins it will be on his looks and speaking ability, because his policies are empty.

I saw or Saturday Night Live something like that this weekend (Is Mad TV still on?) and they had Hillary winning a Woman of the Year Award when Obama shows up and all the women start swooning over him and he sings a song and the women all take a revote to name Obama Woman of the Year. Anytime Hillary tried to point out his lack of ideas he just started talking and all the women ignored her. The actual set up wasn't too funny, but the truth of the situation was.

Now, I'm just picking on you here, but Tyra Banks surely isn't an example of your "normal" African-American. She's a supermodel with years upon years of media training. I don't think anyone that can be considered "normal" (of any skin color) looks as good or speaks as well as she does.

Have you actually watched her show? She may have training but she only manages to use the talking in front of a camera part.

 

[Danoff]

Have you actually watched her show? She may have training but she only manages to use the talking in front of a camera part.

Why would I watch her show?

 

[FoolKiller]

Why would I watch her show?

You sounded well informed on her credentials.

I've had to watch it, but I was being paid at the same time.