So who's guilty?

[Raf Laureys]

Stoddart's opinion : www.grandprix.com/ns/ns15087.html makes it pretty clear : fifty/fifty for the great caracters Max Mosley and Jean Todt

 

[snypa]

Once again they COULD NOT be prepared for this the way Bridgestone was. I don't blame Jordan and Minardi, and never did. Ferrari, on the other hand, COULD have agreed to the chicane, and we would have had a race. But they didn't.

To your first assertion :
-Michelin was surely aware of the Track/ tires combination possible problem, if some reporters have wrote something about it before, like you proved yourself.
- If it's right to say they didn't have the opportunity to collect datas on the track, what does it change ? Did you expect bridgestone to sharing their datas ?? (and what kind of datas, IRL/Cart are far different from F1).

Now to what you said about ferrari :
-just imagine 1 second if the situation was the exact opposite. Ferrari unable to compete with blown tires, the rest of the field ok. Do you seriously think the other teams would do anything in order to help them??? they would just have laugh at them, treating them as a bunch of donkeys. Now you are expecting ferrari do do something for these teams, who systematically help eachother to make Ferrari lose ? Hey, this is a technological war, they take no prisoners.
- now imagine that ferrari accept the chicane,and that one of their car, (or any car), has a terrible crash that hurt the driver, or worse, some spectators. How do you think people would react concerning the FIA or ferrari ?

I really think it's time to stop blaming ferrari SYSTEMATICALLY , because they did some mistakes in the past (austrian GP 2002). it's by far too easy.

if look at the situation, what was the first element that put the F1 Circus (without any bad joke) in that tricky situation ? A Michelin complete failure. End of the story.
It's just too easy to make a huge mistake, then put pressure on the guys who worked hard and well, just because you represent 70% of the field. It's not because they are the majority that they have rights that others don't have (Bridgetsone would have never managed to obtain a chicane just for Jordan , Minardi or ferrari).

 

[Majarvis]

I don't blame Jordan and Minardi, and never did. Ferrari, on the other hand, COULD have agreed to the chicane, and we would have had a race. But they didn't.

It wouldn't have mattered, because last time I checked, the FIA was the governing body, not Ferrari. Remember what happened the last time Ferrari agreed to something, but it didn't matter? They agreed to let Minardi run their 2004 car in Melbourne, but the FIA turned Minardi down anyway, even with unanimous support.
Also, Ferrari were never consulted. This has been confirmed by Frank Williams in an interview. The only reason people blame Ferrari is because it's an easy way out. They were never consulted about the chicane. Paul Stoddart was the one who started this rumour about Ferrari refusing the chicane, but has been confirmed afterwards they were never part of the discussions. Never mind the fact that Jean Todt said they would have refused anyway, it comes down to the FIA having the final word, no matter what the teams decide.
Like I have said before, and you cannot apparently understand, is that if this had happened to Bridgestone, none of the other teams would have given them any slack, and rightfully so.

 

[EvilToast]

i think its time to stop balming ferrari for any stupid thing that happens in F1, its just like all of those idiots who balme the yankees because they win, people hate others success.

 

[shaunsund]

i think its time to stop balming ferrari for any stupid thing that happens in F1, its just all of those idiot who balme the yankees because they win, people hate others success.

True that EvilToast

 

[Duke]

Yes, a Bridgestone practice... nice solution. WOOOT!!

Ferrari, on the other hand, COULD have agreed to the chicane, and we would have had a race. But they didn't.

Anybody in the lead can always agree to hamstring themselves so that slower racers can keep up. Maybe Ferrari should agree to only use 7/8ths of their throttle so that the other teams can "have a race" as well?

If I was Ferrari and the FIA had imposed a chicane on me when I had my cars properly dialled up for the original track, I'd protest the hell out of that decision.

Say the cars were all gridded on a cloudy day and some teams had fitted rain tires not dry tires. Then a miracle happens and the sun comes out 10 minutes before the flag. Should the teams with the wrong tires be allowed to delay the start so they can switch? Same thing.

Shut up and run what ya brung. If you didn't bring the right tires, that's your problem.

 

[snypa]

Stoddart's opinion : www.grandprix.com/ns/ns15087.html makes it pretty clear : fifty/fifty for the great caracters Max Mosley and Jean Todt

I read this interview.
How hypocrit this guy is. It was the only opportunity of the whole season for minardi to score some points, with a bunch of $, and he's still complaining. I think he's just trying to take revenge after the ridiculous story in melbourne, where he wanted to run with 2004 cars while he was able to put his cars conform to the 2005 regulations (he was finally obliged by the FIA to turn his cars in conformity, which was just normal).
This guy is a whole joke, the only thing he's able to do is making much noice in order to put his name on the newspapers. Should better work with his team in order to cut the 2s down on the Jordans.

 

[katana87]

True that EvilToast

I thought I only belived that

IA

 

[Majarvis]

i think its time to stop balming ferrari for any stupid thing that happens in F1, its just like all of those idiots who balme the yankees because they win, people hate others success.

I'm glad to see someone else shares my viewpoint, thank you

Anybody in the lead can always agree to hamstring themselves so that slower racers can keep up. Maybe Ferrari should agree to only use 7/8ths of their throttle so that the other teams can "have a race" as well?

If I was Ferrari and the FIA had imposed a chicane on me when I had my cars properly dialled up for the original track, I'd protest the hell out of that decision.

Say the cars were all gridded on a cloudy day and some teams had fitted rain tires not dry tires. Then a miracle happens and the sun comes out 10 minutes before the flag. Should the teams with the wrong tires be allowed to delay the start so they can switch? Same thing.

Shut up and run what ya brung. If you didn't bring the right tires, that's your problem.

Couldn't have said it better myself, thank you

 

[Touring Mars]

i think its time to stop balming ferrari for any stupid thing that happens in F1, its just like all of those idiots who balme the yankees because they win, people hate others success.

apologies for being totally off-topic, but that avatar deserves a special mention! Why? Bill-cos-because because because....

 

[rollerm684]

<DELETED>

 

[EvilToast]

He's the one who crashed in the same place twice, two years in a row!

If you consider separately that the other incidents were not on the banked straightaway like Schumacher, then maybe you could see that Ralf's crash was caused by his driving style/preferences w/ camber, tire pressure, braking points, etc. But I concede that Michelin confirmed before the race that they had absolutely no clue as to what caused any of their tire failures. That's what caused the hysteria amongst the Michelin teams.

Most people here agree that you can't blame the IMS for what happened. But maybe you can, but not on the grounds that pundits have brought up. Why is it that between races, many of the other F1 tracks are used for testing, but not at IMS? IMS let the IRL have practice sessions for a month before the Indy 500. F1 can't have such sessions cause the track is probably kept in the oval configuration all year. The only other tracks I can think of is Monaco. There's no testing at Monaco, because its a street course, but F1 has been racing there since...forever. Michelin has had experience racing at IMS, but the specification for F1 tires is so radically different from most other motorsports, particularly this year. Testing should be allowed there somehow, if they're ever going to race there again.


This rant only proves that you can feel your way through the dark to find a logical reason to blame anyone...Ralf Schumacher, Toyota, the Michelin teams, Michelin, IMS, F1, the FIA, the IRL, etc.

To exascerbate the problem even more, Michelin doesn't even have that much data about how to run at the modified IMS course, cause they barely did any full out laps on tires for this (and next) year's tire regulation (otherwise they would ahve brought the right tires). On the other hand, not only was Bridgestone prepared for the race (or they were just lucky in their design), and they got rewarded for it with their own exclusive Brdgestone test session?!

you should read whats already been posted before you say anything.

 

[Blake]

And there are many track that aren't tested on throughout the year:
Melbourne, Malaysia, Bahrain, Monaco, Nurburgring, Montreal, Indianapolis, Hockenheim, Hungaroring, Istanbul, Spa, Interlagos, Suzuka and Shanghai.

Blake

 

[Melaneimoon]

I'm not going to waste too much words on this...

My vote: Michelin teams.

The Michelin teams had unsuitable gear, not even an obligated back up tyre (weither they or Michelin has to take responsibility for that, I don't know, but it's a matter of rules and contracts).
The FIA refused unreasonable (that means: unfair, potentially dangerous and most importantly in violation of the rules) requests. They offered reasonable and safe alternatives (speed limit for Michelin cars in that turn, or using the pit lane, or using tyre changes), which would have at least been better than this ridiculous retirement. They were approved by Michelin, but refused by the teams.

The idea of handicapping the "good" teams is fundamentally in contradiction to the essence of F1. F1 is not only a competition of driving skill, it's also a competition of technological development. If a driver sucks, a circuit isn't changed to suit his driving style, no, the driver has to improve, or he gets replaced. It's the same with engines, chassis and why would it be different for tyres? The US GP was an obvious victory of Bridgestone over Michelin.