Some major problems with Asseto Corsa

[Speedster911]

I apologize in advance, if this comes off a bit negative but the physics in this game are the result of clever marketing and a lot of hype, coupled by hardcore PC simmers backing it up and touting the game as the "closest thing ever to actual driving". It gets a lot of things right, but a lot of driving aspects well off - braking and turn in characteristics just to name a few.

It may be a good sim, but it can be so much better. IMO, the devs have barely scratched the surface and hailing it as the most accurate driving experience out here is just plain wrong.

 

[Speedster911]

I apologize in advance, if this comes off a bit negative but the physics in this game are the result of clever marketing and a lot of hype, coupled by hardcore PC simmers backing it up and touting the game as the "closest thing ever to actual driving". It gets a lot of things right, but a lot of driving aspects well off - braking and turn in characteristics just to name a few.

It may be a good sim, but it can be so much better. IMO, the devs have barely scratched the surface and hailing it as the most accurate driving experience out here is just plain wrong.

 

[ALB123]

I apologize in advance, if this comes off a bit negative but the physics in this game are the result of clever marketing and a lot of hype, coupled by hardcore PC simmers backing it up and touting the game as the "closest thing ever to actual driving". It gets a lot of things right, but a lot of driving aspects well off - braking and turn in characteristics just to name a few.

It may be a good sim, but it can be so much better. IMO, the devs have barely scratched the surface and hailing it as the most accurate driving experience out here is just plain wrong.

A perfectly valid opinion. Although, how can it be a good sim if braking, turn in characteristics and other issues plague the physics of the game? I would consider that a very poor sim. Is there a sim that you can recommend as an example of quality physics & car dynamics just so I have a reference to compare it to? I don't have a lot of varied experience with sims...Live For Speed, Gran Turismo 6, Assetto Corsa & very little Project Cars. But, I will certainly discuss any pro's & con's of Assetto Corsa with any rational person. You've always posted very rational messages, so I'd like to hear your complaints expanded upon. Yes, I'm a fan of AC, but I do not think it is absolutely perfect. In my opinion it is the best driving simulation, of the 4 sims I've tried, but mine is just an opinion as well.

I'll start off by saying that I think Assetto Corsa has a tendency to provide cars set up to be a bit on the understeering side of things. The only reason I can think of as to why they would do such a thing is to make the cars a bit easier to handle...which a lot of manufacturers tend to do in real life as well. Although, I think AC often goes a step beyond that. Not with all cars, but with some I believe. There are also a lot of people who I believe over drive vehicles into corners and misinterpret the car's momentum and the tires limits of grip into "this thing understeers!". I'm not suggesting you or anyone else reading this falls into that camp, but I know for a fact there are many people who do as I see their posts on the official forums...and two weeks later they come back admitting driver error played a big part in their understeering problems.

The best thing a player could do is report issues they are experiencing with cars/tracks/etc, in a calm and descriptive manner. I've taken complaints that I've read here on GTPlanet and written posts in the Physics Bugs PC forum because I know it's going to be seen by eyes that matter (Aris, Stefano, etc). Any chance that a valid complaint can be fixed is a benefit to all of us. 👍

 

[Whitestar]

...the physics in this game are the result of clever marketing and a lot of hype

I would argue that it's the result of a small team of devs constantly trying to improve it.

It may be a good sim, but it can be so much better. IMO, the devs have barely scratched the surface and hailing it as the most accurate driving experience out here is just plain wrong.

Just wondering, which title would you say is the most accurate driving experience? (Honest question).
Also, are you using a DS? If so, you might find it behaving better with a wheel. Or not, who knows.

 

[Knukel]

Realistic or not, but i can't figure out Gt2/3 medium tyres.. Even on extreme conditions (+60°c track surface) medium tyres stay cold for most of the track, after 15laps it didn't get any better.. Think using higher pressure is better than lowering pressure to gain heat, because then pressure jumps between 23-27psi making handling very inconsistent. Driving is like constant handling roulette with +-4psi wooden cold and good warm tyres.

 

[BrandonW77]

Driving is like constant handling roulette with +-4psi wooden cold and good warm tyres.

I've never experienced that in the GT cars. I did a 40 minute online race last Friday in the C7.R and once I got my pressures dialed in the tires were good and grippy for the whole race and never went out of the ideal pressure range. They were the soft tires and they did start to degrade after a while but the pressures and temps stayed consistent. From my experience, if you get the pressures right the temps take care of themselves (full disclosure: I do cheat a bit by using Sidekick to get my ideal pressures).

 

[lancia delta hf]

Understeer= Too fast.

Oversteer= Too slow.

It's easy to understeer whilst using a pad though because you can go from center steering position to full lock within 0.3 seconds ( time completely guesstimate) and your front tyres are no longer steering but being pushed. I don't have problems with oversteer much ( beyond what I would perceive normal) using a pad as I just try to use smoother inputs and don't take corners too fast.

Really not sure what is meant by bad breaks. I can say that my friend thinks the breaks are bad too, after spectating him I can see why. Breaking 10 meters before the corner is going to make every break look bad.

 

[Speedster911]

A perfectly valid opinion. Although, how can it be a good sim if braking, turn in characteristics and other issues plague the physics of the game? I would consider that a very poor sim. Is there a sim that you can recommend as an example of quality physics & car dynamics just so I have a reference to compare it to? I don't have a lot of varied experience with sims...Live For Speed, Gran Turismo 6, Assetto Corsa & very little Project Cars. But, I will certainly discuss any pro's & con's of Assetto Corsa with any rational person. You've always posted very rational messages, so I'd like to hear your complaints expanded upon. Yes, I'm a fan of AC, but I do not think it is absolutely perfect. In my opinion it is the best driving simulation, of the 4 sims I've tried, but mine is just an opinion as well.

I'll start off by saying that I think Assetto Corsa has a tendency to provide cars set up to be a bit on the understeering side of things. The only reason I can think of as to why they would do such a thing is to make the cars a bit easier to handle...which a lot of manufacturers tend to do in real life as well. Although, I think AC often goes a step beyond that. Not with all cars, but with some I believe. There are also a lot of people who I believe over drive vehicles into corners and misinterpret the car's momentum and the tires limits of grip into "this thing understeers!". I'm not suggesting you or anyone else reading this falls into that camp, but I know for a fact there are many people who do as I see their posts on the official forums...and two weeks later they come back admitting driver error played a big part in their understeering problems.

The best thing a player could do is report issues they are experiencing with cars/tracks/etc, in a calm and descriptive manner. I've taken complaints that I've read here on GTPlanet and written posts in the Physics Bugs PC forum because I know it's going to be seen by eyes that matter (Aris, Stefano, etc). Any chance that a valid complaint can be fixed is a benefit to all of us. 👍

Sure - for reference, iRacing, PCARS and to a very small extent Forza as well, which certainly is no sim but has certain sim-like characterstics; i.e. the weight transfer has been much improved over previous versions and gives every car a good sense of weight depending on the drivetrain and engine placement. I've spent a great deal of time on PCARS over the last few months and apart from the oversteering bug on controller (very tough to correct slides once your car goes into a stubborn oversteer beyong a certain point), CARS ha superb physics. In fact, I see quite a few parallels between CARS and Forza 6 physics, but again, the latter is no sim by any means, but rather a good reference for realistic physics. So yes, AC isn't perfect but they are definitely on to something; with a few tweaks it can be right up there with the best sims.

When I owned AC at the time, I didn't really dive too deeply into tuning as every car I tried out seemed to understeer right off the track, even with adequate wheel lock and generous braking distances. It was that feeling of floatiness and front tire disconnect that I couldn't shake.

I wish I could provide more insights so that the devs could improve the physics model but unfortunately, I returned the game soon after, because aside from the physics issues, it just plays (inconsistent frames) and looks terrible on Xbox One. There are much better products on the market which is another reason why I gave up on it entirely. There were other aspects that I also disliked; however, that's for another thread.

I would argue that it's the result of a small team of devs constantly trying to improve it.


Just wondering, which title would you say is the most accurate driving experience? (Honest question).
Also, are you using a DS? If so, you might find it behaving better with a wheel. Or not, who knows.

And I do hope they continue to make improvements but for now it just doesn't feel very intuitive or believable on a controller - and I honestly do not buy the "get a wheel to properly experience the unbelievable physics" bit. PCARS for example, had a host of issues on the controller but they sorted all those out; it feels just as immersive on the controller as it does on the wheel and you don't need the latter just to see what the physics engine is all about.

I'm on Xbox One BTW and there are many games out there, both arcade, semi-sim and pure sim that work just as great on the pad as they do on a wheel.

IMO, iRacing, rFactor, RRE, GTR and of course CARS all offer a fairly accurate driving experience. I'd add Forza to the roster, but the developers have deliberately held it back to appeal to a super-wide audience.

Understeer= Too fast.

Oversteer= Too slow.

It's easy to understeer whilst using a pad though because you can go from center steering position to full lock within 0.3 seconds ( time completely guesstimate) and your front tyres are no longer steering but being pushed. I don't have problems with oversteer much ( beyond what I would perceive normal) using a pad as I just try to use smoother inputs and don't take corners too fast.

Really not sure what is meant by bad breaks. I can say that my friend thinks the breaks are bad too, after spectating him I can see why. Breaking 10 meters before the corner is going to make every break look bad.

I wish genuine issues would not be attributed to bad driving skills by default.

I've been playing sims and non-arcade racing games for nearly 3 decades now; in addition I have several years high speed driving experience under my belt (not on a track though). I've driven boosted 300 HP FWD to 600+ HP rear and AWD cars and I can tell you with complete confidence that AC's physics are a hit and miss. Not too many misses, but those do need to be addressed.

And as long as I have been playing racing games, I've never used the full lock/stick flick maneuver on my controller. I am very mindful of my inputs and make millimeter corrections to maintain speed through corners. Yes, it is possible to mimic steering wheel movements on an analog stick as long as you put in enough practice.

I'm also not in the habit of dive bombing into corners - they tell you that at every motorsport school: "Brake in a straight line; 90% of it before the turn, slow in, fast out."

I tried every possible steering setting but the front tires do not seem to relay a believable sense of grip. Anyhow, I'm sure there will be improvements to the physics model in due time. Perhaps dramatic ones by the time they start working on a second AC. But it just wasn't for me, so I skipped it altogether.

 

[Knukel]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tyre-temps.348977/
Maybe the console version is having this heating issue now, especially online? Average track temp online is ~50°C.
Just like overdriving is the only way to heat tyres, but only temperary.

 

[ALB123]

@Speedster911 I didn't realize you returned Assetto Corsa. For some reason, I thought you were still playing it. It's unfortunate that you had very poor experiences with AC, but as you said, there are plenty of other racing sims available on XBox. I've never played Forza, so I can't comment on it at all.

 

[Pillo-san]

and I honestly do not buy the "get a wheel to properly experience the unbelievable physics" bit. PCARS for example, had a host of issues on the controller but they sorted all those out; it feels just as immersive on the controller as it does on the wheel and you don't need the latter just to see what the physics engine is all about.

Sorry but there you are very mistaken about the the wheel vs controller topic, if we go by how I personally feel.

I loved Forza, I thought to myself, -this is fantastic, everybody is saying this is an arcade racer but I can feel the weight transfer, how much I need to brake and all that, Cant be better than this. Then I tried it with a wheel. HAHA, what a joke. That was my biggest disappointment in recent history in gaming, I could not for even a second believe that it was a car I drove. Forza is way worse than gt4 and gt6 with a ffb wheel!

I race on pc and I can very easily spot who is playing with a controller, as the steering corrections are so obvious when the cars front tires suddenly turns like 40-60 degrees to one side and the car responds without even loosing any grip. Wth, that should not even be possible irl to be honest, but there are games which are way, waaaaay worse... So yeah AC has flaws, but you will not experience the good parts if you are not playing it like it was meant to be played, with a wheel.

 

[PzR Slim]

and I honestly do not buy the "get a wheel to properly experience the unbelievable physics" bit. PCARS for example, had a host of issues on the controller but they sorted all those out; it feels just as immersive on the controller as it does on the wheel and you don't need the latter just to see what the physics engine is all about.

This by the very definition is untrue.

 

[Speedster911]

Sorry but there you are very mistaken about the the wheel vs controller topic, if we go by how I personally feel.

I loved Forza, I thought to myself, -this is fantastic, everybody is saying this is an arcade racer but I can feel the weight transfer, how much I need to brake and all that, Cant be better than this. Then I tried it with a wheel. HAHA, what a joke. That was my biggest disappointment in recent history in gaming, I could not for even a second believe that it was a car I drove. Forza is way worse than gt4 and gt6 with a ffb wheel!

I race on pc and I can very easily spot who is playing with a controller, as the steering corrections are so obvious when the cars front tires suddenly turns like 40-60 degrees to one side and the car responds without even loosing any grip. Wth, that should not even be possible irl to be honest, but there are games which are way, waaaaay worse... So yeah AC has flaws, but you will not experience the good parts if you are not playing it like it was meant to be played, with a wheel.

Sure, Forza has its problems with a wheel - that is more of a FFB and wheel implementation issue rather than a physics issue.

You know, there IS a rather limited percentage of people who have practiced enough on a pad to use it like a wheel. Granted, it will never give the level of precision and finesse you get with a good wheel, you can still train yourself to jam up your thumb firmly against the left stick and make very minor millimeter corrections. I was never a flicker and learned to keep the stick at certain angles fairly early on, even when Forza wasn't introduced.

So AC is meant for the wheel - well, tough luck for us non-wheelers then. The pad integration should have gotten more attention and it clearly didn't. And there's no excuse; PCARS improved their pad implementation so much that it's practically night and day between the launch and current version on X-One.

BTW, you can PM your gamer tag to me - I wouldn't mind racing you and you can see for yourself how I use the pad. It's not my driving, believe me.

 

[Pillo-san]

Sure, Forza has its problems with a wheel - that is more of a FFB and wheel implementation issue rather than a physics issue.

You know, there IS a rather limited percentage of people who have practiced enough on a pad to use it like a wheel. Granted, it will never give the level of precision and finesse you get with a good wheel, you can still train yourself to jam up your thumb firmly against the left stick and make very minor millimeter corrections. I was never a flicker and learned to keep the stick at certain angles fairly early on, even when Forza wasn't introduced.

So AC is meant for the wheel - well, tough luck for us non-wheelers then. The pad integration should have gotten more attention and it clearly didn't. And there's no excuse; PCARS improved their pad implementation so much that it's practically night and day between the launch and current version on X-One.

BTW, you can PM your gamer tag to me - I wouldn't mind racing you and you can see for yourself how I use the pad. It's not my driving, believe me.

Hehe, with a controller you dont need to be that precise as you can catch the car instantly when it steps out, try doing a lock to lock with a wheel in any game Yeah sure, you are right, they could make the experience better for pad users, but I hope they dont. They said that this was a sim, and the targeted group is using wheels. Every time I see a controller user in any game I stay away from them. If it was up to me I would rather like them focus on making the game more simlike than making it a half assed frankenstein of a game with controller support

I dont use xbox

 

[Speedster911]

Hehe, with a controller you dont need to be that precise as you can catch the car instantly when it steps out, try doing a lock to lock with a wheel in any game Yeah sure, you are right, they could make the experience better for pad users, but I hope they dont. They said that this was a sim, and the targeted group is using wheels. Every time I see a controller user in any game I stay away from them. If it was up to me I would rather like them focus on making the game more simlike than making it a half assed frankenstein of a game with controller support

I dont use xbox

Well, Forza and PCARS as well as DR handle brilliantly on a controller and none of them are half assed frankenstein of a game...

 

[Pillo-san]

Yes but forza is bad with a proper way of controlling the car, and and how much I like project cars it has its quirks when you push the cars. I love the feeling of grip the cars give you but it feels like the car is turning around a axle/pole that goes straight trough the the car, imagine a carousel in a theme park. I think scaff did mention this effect/issue when he talked about GTS in his video. I almost fell down the chair because PC feels like that to me when turning. And I love how detailed the cars are, ie look like proper 3d cad models. The understeer or rather a feeling of driving a lifeless 2d picture that only skids without rotating/turning in to the turns disappeared. AC for me is undefeated in how it feels with a wheel, even though it is not perfect.

Try it out with a wheel, for like a week before saying it sux It sux in some areas but so does all sims, there is no game that does it all perfectly. yet

 

[Speedster911]

Yes but forza is bad with a proper way of controlling the car, and and how much I like project cars it has its quirks when you push the cars. I love the feeling of grip the cars give you but it feels like the car is turning around a axle/pole that goes straight trough the the car, imagine a carousel in a theme park. I think scaff did mention this effect/issue when he talked about GTS in his video. I almost fell down the chair because PC feels like that to me when turning. And I love how detailed the cars are, ie look like proper 3d cad models. The understeer or rather a feeling of driving a lifeless 2d picture that only skids without rotating/turning in to the turns disappeared. AC for me is undefeated in how it feels with a wheel, even though it is not perfect.

Try it out with a wheel, for like a week before saying it sux It sux in some areas but so does all sims, there is no game that does it all perfectly. yet

Well, aa'said it before friend, and I'll say again - Forza ain't no sim though the physics are reasonably realistic. Could you perhaps shed some more light on how "Forza is bad with a proper way of controlling the car"?

CARS is definitely a step up but yeah, I got that as soon as I started playing the game - the feeling of pivoting around at center feels kinda odd. It's something that dates back to the original Shift game. And then of course there's the oversteer issue; once you lose it beyond a point, there's NO way you can recover from the slide. Good news is they've resolved a number of physics issue in CARS2; one of the lads from Inside Sim Racing played it on a sim rig with a good wheel and VR googles at E3 - he said it is much much improved over its predecessor.

If I do get a wheel sometime in the near or not too distant future (seems unlikely, TBH), I will pick up AC for sure just to see for myself how it is on a wheel.

 

[svenvangent]

Hmmmmmm Inside Sim Racing that is really a site we have to trust when it comes to a honest preview review about a race game.
Nothing personnel Speedster911 but you mention Inside Sim Racing .

 

[Speedster911]

Hmmmmmm Inside Sim Racing that is really a site we have to trust when it comes to a honest preview review about a race game.
Nothing personnel Speedster911 but you mention Inside Sim Racing .

Hmmm... so they're just as biased as some of the other mainstream guys out there, eh?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Hmmm... so they're just as biased as some of the other mainstream guys out there, eh?

They called Forza 3 a PC style SIM back in the day.....

 

[Speedster911]

They called Forza 3 a PC style SIM back in the day.....

Back in the day...eh?

That is an odd thing to say - it isn't an arcade title but no way is it a PC-style sim. Just a plain ol' "accessible console sim".

 

[Tired Tyres]

Back in the day...eh?

That is an odd thing to say - it isn't an arcade title but no way is it a PC-style sim. Just a plain ol' "accessible console sim".

Point being if they lie about something like that you stop taking any notice of anything they say after that.

 

[Speedster911]

Point being if they lie about something like that you stop taking any notice of anything they say after that.

Yeap

 

[Skython]

I've never had any big issues with braking and turn in in AC, though next time I play it, I'll probably start noticing and then feel very disappointed. The only issues I've ever really had is that the cars feel a bit weightless, and the way the engine/clutch works is a bit annoying. There's an auto-handbrake or something, so if you try to slowly take off on just the clutch, you can see the car trying to take, but it won't move and just stalls. And when you are stalled, if you just put your foot down on the accelerator, the car starts moving. It moves very slowly, but it builds up revs as if it never stalled.

That's something I feel PCARS does very well. Infact, call me foolish, but when I was learning to drive in real life, I used PCARS for rev matching practice, and it helped a lot. PCARS as many have said before has a very early point of no return, so the moment you lose grip in any way, you're doomed. I think a lot of PCARS' complaints came from people not setting it up properly, which I'd say is partly SMS' fault for not giving good default wheel settings, and for the adjustment descriptions being vague (not all of them are described). I've had it for two years and it's still not quite right. In AC, it was plug in and play, and from that point on it was fine. It's interesting, because it seems to be the other way around for controllers, as SMS has done it better, and Kunos haven't. I have high hopes for PCARS 2 though, and I'll be keeping an eye on it. Just without a pre-order, that's all.

And Forza, I'm not a big drifter, but if you drift a car in Forza, and then transition into the next corner, the way the car changes direction is very awkward in Forza. The way you can slide race cars is odd too, it's when you break traction that the game shows that it's made for a wider audience. But you're right, at its roots it does have some realistic handling, and it's very well set-up for the controller. I can't comment on the wheel, as I can't afford to pay $1500 for decent compatible Thrustmaster kit. And yes, that's how much they cost here (G920 is reasonably priced comparatively, but not worth it as it's not enough of an upgrade from the G27). I'll stick with my trusty G27 on PC, even though reverse doesn't work anymore.

 

[ALB123]

I've never had any big issues with braking and turn in in AC, though next time I play it, I'll probably start noticing and then feel very disappointed. The only issues I've ever really had is that the cars feel a bit weightless, and the way the engine/clutch works is a bit annoying. There's an auto-handbrake or something, so if you try to slowly take off on just the clutch, you can see the car trying to take, but it won't move and just stalls. And when you are stalled, if you just put your foot down on the accelerator, the car starts moving. It moves very slowly, but it builds up revs as if it never stalled.

That's something I feel PCARS does very well. Infact, call me foolish, but when I was learning to drive in real life, I used PCARS for rev matching practice, and it helped a lot. PCARS as many have said before has a very early point of no return, so the moment you lose grip in any way, you're doomed. I think a lot of PCARS' complaints came from people not setting it up properly, which I'd say is partly SMS' fault for not giving good default wheel settings, and for the adjustment descriptions being vague (not all of them are described). I've had it for two years and it's still not quite right. In AC, it was plug in and play, and from that point on it was fine. It's interesting, because it seems to be the other way around for controllers, as SMS has done it better, and Kunos haven't. I have high hopes for PCARS 2 though, and I'll be keeping an eye on it. Just without a pre-order, that's all.

And Forza, I'm not a big drifter, but if you drift a car in Forza, and then transition into the next corner, the way the car changes direction is very awkward in Forza. The way you can slide race cars is odd too, it's when you break traction that the game shows that it's made for a wider audience. But you're right, at its roots it does have some realistic handling, and it's very well set-up for the controller. I can't comment on the wheel, as I can't afford to pay $1500 for decent compatible Thrustmaster kit. And yes, that's how much they cost here (G920 is reasonably priced comparatively, but not worth it as it's not enough of an upgrade from the G27). I'll stick with my trusty G27 on PC, even though reverse doesn't work anymore.

You're right. One thing that drives me nuts about AC -- and this has been an issue since day one, if you are using anything BESIDES a wheel/stick/clutch pedal and you choose a car that has an H-Pattern in real life, you need to floor it and slam it into first gear, or at least apply like half-throttle. If you're stationary and click into 1st gear and THEN apply throttle the car will either pull away like it's stuck in quicksand or it might not even move at all. If the car doesn't have a manual stick shift in real life, then there is no problem.

There has been talk about adding manual car starting & real car stalling but it obviously isn't very high on their list of things to do. I don't even really care about that since I only have a crappy DFGT w/2 pedals, but if I had 3 pedals and a stick, then I think it'd be a cool feature. Of course, I only care about that functionality because of how it would or wouldn't impact me personally. If they ever decide to do another Assetto Corsa in the future, or start something completely different, I bet they'll add that to the base sim.