Sound Off! NASCAR in Mexico (Not About the Race)

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, time again to sound off. Now before you talk about this race, be sure to read this intro because this isn't necessarily about the race itself, but on the notion of a bigtime motorsport... uh, sport, going south of the border. And this is the first of my "Sound Off!" sessions outside of GT4. Here's the intro.

The NASCAR Busch Series attended Mexico City, Mexico to race on the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez. The race turned out pretty well with dozens of spectators and lots of support from the fans down in Ciudad de Mexico. After watching "Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain" (featuring the wonderful Bob Varsha as co-host), there were a bunch of reactions regarding this event. In Speed Channel's "Bootie Call," Robert "Bootie" Barker was talking about why he wouldn't race in this special event outside of the U.S. I thought it was horse crap. Even worse, one person E-mailed Wind Tunnel about Latin racers in NASCAR in a "predominantly white American series." One person called in and thought it was a horrible move because he thought NASCAR couldn't find a great race track in America to race on. I'll sound off in my own way in a later post.

But GTPlanet, NASCAR, better known for American oval racing- goes south of the border... good move, bad move? Sound off!

 

[JohnBM01]

Now, as promised, my turn.

Personally, I'm not a big NASCAR fan. But to me, I can recall when NASCAR went to Japan to race at Motegi and Suzuka back in... 1996, I believe. These were one-off events by the (then) Winston Cup series. But let me try out a different racing series, the series formerly known as the JGTC. The tropical paradise, the Sepang Circuit, played host to the JGTC's first championship event outside of Japan. Or maybe think of Australia's V8 Supercars trying out China. These are series true to their native country and try out a track eleswhere in the world. Hell, I want to see how NASCAR Nextel Cup would do in ENGLAND'S Rockingham (remember to pronounce this track like "rock-in-hum" rather than America's "rock-in-ham"). For the rest of the world, I don't know if you all feel the same as we do in America, but if you ask me, what really bothered me was the "we can find better tracks in America" deal.

Leauges like the JGTC, DTM, Australian V8 Supercars, and all them, if you want to attract larger audiences, you need to branch out. So don't give me that s*** about "we can find better tracks in America." No offense, but I'd rather see some other worldwide talent rather than stay true to my own nation. This is why I don't like being patriotic with racing and racing talent. I know that my native nation is not the only country on the map. I say it's good for NASCAR to go outside of America and better to race on a road course. It's a great oppurtunity to race in your native country and branch out, even if for one day. We cannot all be wallflowers now, can we? America doesn't have to be the cornerstone of motorsports ALL THE TIME. The important thing is seeing your native stars compete outside your native nation. If a driver can do well in his/her native nation, he/she is damn sure to do well outside his/her native nation. End of story.

 

[slimer90210]

I think it is good that NASCAR is expanding into to other countries and adding road courses, because lets face it watching ovals all year gets boring...

 

[RandomHero]

Even worse, one person E-mailed Wind Tunnel about Latin racers in NASCAR in a "predominantly white American series." One person called in and thought it was a horrible move because he thought NASCAR couldn't find a great race track in America to race on. I'll sound off in my own way in a later post.

But GTPlanet, NASCAR, better known for American oval racing- goes south of the border... good move, bad move? Sound off!

The person with the E-mail about latin racers was spot on, he is latin himself you know. Secondly NASCAR could find a much better track(s) to race on in the U.S. North Wilksburough for instance. A few years ago NASCAR was constantly pushing the big tracks complaining that the small tracks could not hold as many fan's. The racing was horrible at these cookie-cutter tracks and they actually had less seats, which after a few years wouldn't sell for crap. But you see tracks like Richmond, Bristol, Martensville sell out consistantly (cost me 380$ for two seats at Bristol last August) and these tracks hold almost 200,000 fans. Nascar could find/build tracks with better racing that would sell out more often (Darlington). Also Nascar hasn't really gotten into the Northwest. Most of the tracks that they have built (ISC [owned by Nascar]) are all the same as i said and provide horrible racing.

So don't give me that s*** about "we can find better tracks in America." No offense, but I'd rather see some other worldwide talent rather than stay true to my own nation. This is why I don't like being patriotic with racing and racing talent. I know that my native nation is not the only country on the map. I say it's good for NASCAR to go outside of America and better to race on a road course. It's a great oppurtunity to race in your native country and branch out, even if for one day. We cannot all be wallflowers now, can we? America doesn't have to be the cornerstone of motorsports ALL THE TIME. The important thing is seeing your native stars compete outside your native nation. If a driver can do well in his/her native nation, he/she is damn sure to do well outside his/her native nation. End of story.

This is one more thing you have wrong, people go to the races to see talent they know from watching them at local tracks, they feel some bit of a connection to these drivers having watched them come up to this level of motorsport. Why do you think IRL and CART couldn't get any butts in the seats? Noone wants to go see some guy they never heard of with some name they cannot pronounce. Fact is it's just not goign to work. The average american wants to see people they are familiar with. You do realise it is called NASCAR for a reason don't you, National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing. Most Amercians feel a bit of pride in that. Road course racing is boring, proved by the race in Mexico this weekend. Rarely any side by side racing or lot's of passing, all follow the leader parade style bull****. Ovals provide close competition and no holds bar wheel to wheel action. Besides most Americans grow up watching local short tracks and can relate. There are better tracks in America in more areas that provide better racing and appeal to a larger area of fanbase. Bill France would be rolling in his grave if he could see what is happening to the sport.

 

[slimer90210]

Road course racing is boring, proved by the race in Mexico this weekend. Rarely any side by side racing or lot's of passing, all follow the leader parade style bull****. Ovals provide close competition and no holds bar wheel to wheel action. Besides most Americans grow up watching local short tracks and can relate. There are better tracks in America in more areas that provide better racing and appeal to a larger area of fanbase. Bill France would be rolling in his grave if he could see what is happening to the sport.

Good points there.

Some road course racing is rather boring, but there were times in Mexico race when two good road racers (Said and Fellows' early battle come to mind) got together and provided some really good action. I think alot of the reason the pack was so inclined to 'follow the leader' was the fact that many of them had naver races a road course before and many of the racers that had driven road courses had never driven a stock car before. I think the more NASCAR runs on road courses the more "wheel to wheel action" you will see on the road courses.

I do admit that there are better tracks within the US that would provide for better racing and a stronger fan base but give NASCAR some credit for trying something new.

P.S. Love the Avatar.....

 

[JohnBM01]

Okay, let's say that NASCAR went to Rockingham (England), the Lausitzring (Germany), or maybe Vallelunga's oval (Italy). All ovals. Let's say NASCAR had a three race tour in Europe using only ovals. Do you think NASCAR would have better racing on international ovals, much less international ovals and/or road courses?

As I would say, I don't think that if British GT, for example, went all the way to Monza, Spa-Francorchamps, or even Road Atlanta, would you probably have people say "British GT could have found better tracks in England (much less the United Kingdom) than any of these tracks?" I think it's a good oppurtunity for NASCAR to do such a thing. It's a bit of a once-in-a-while deal.

Maybe I just have different tastes in racing. I tend to admire talent and driving skill more than "rubbing is racing" stuff better left for a short track event on Saturday night. I wouldn't mind seeing NASCAR try out Sebring. Hey. If stock car racing originated in the southeast, why not a southeast track? It's in the same state of the Great American race, Florida. All I say is "try something new." That's why I admired Jeff Gordon for racing a Formula One race car outside of his #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo, even if for only one day. Not many people would try something new. When I type about trying something new, I don't mean stock car => sprint car. Trying something new (especially among the same style of sport) means stock car to GT car. Formula One to Rally. You know, something more challenging. Even sportscars to Indy cars is a good transition, especially with some of the sportscar and F1 racers who come to America to race IRL and Champ Car.

 

[slimer90210]

All I say is "try something new." That's why I admired Jeff Gordon for racing a Formula One race car outside of his #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo, even if for only one day. Not many people would try something new. When I type about trying something new, I don't mean stock car => sprint car. Trying something new (especially among the same style of sport) means stock car to GT car. Formula One to Rally. You know, something more challenging. Even sportscars to Indy cars is a good transition, especially with some of the sportscar and F1 racers who come to America to race IRL and Champ Car.

So then what do you think of Boris Said "trying something new" by running 10 Bucsh Series Ovals?

 

[ND4SPD]

I think its great to see that nascar is moving to different countries. It will attract a wider variety of fans, and another thing, it puts more road courses on the schedule. Maybe they can finally try out Canada. Mosport would be a great track.

 

[JohnBM01]

Boris Said is one of the most colorful racers in motorsport. He loves to race almost anything. My primary argument in my "try something new" is from getting away from ANY sort of oval racing and try some curves. Another "try something new" would be a dirt tracker trying out Motocross and Supercross, since most motorcycle racing doesn't take place on ovals except some flat track and speedway racing. At one point, I thought Boris Said was a NASCAR Trucks regular. Yeah, Said is getting into the oval scene that he's wanted to get into. The thing here is that he wanted to try them out for a while.

ND4SPD, since the GARRA runs the beautiful Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant, it would be nice to see them race that track. Imagine if a number of great stock car road racers are invited a la Le mans to some of the permanent road courses that the GARRA runs. Since most of us Americans (no offense) aren't into European tradition, this is more like "[I}What if[/I] the GARRA invited racers to compete in events on natural road courses?" Then think about it. What is the only track NASCAR and the GARRA both run? Ever heard of Watkin's Glen? They run the regular course (while Grand-Am runs the long course). Imagine Jeff Gordon, Rusty Wallace, and such running the 6 Hours at the Glen. Both NASCAR and Grand-Am are owned by the same group, so why not do a little integration. You dig?

 

[kart racer]

I feel that NASCAR needs more road races.It brings the cream of the crop to the top and adds alot to the fan base.Don't get me wrong,I enjoy the ovals also but I still feel that they need more road races to make the talent more deversified.(?)
And going to other countries is a great idea.Lokk at CASCAR at Morsport and the show they put on.It is a great race and with a few more hp,the NASCAR guys could really fly.I also feel that the road race wins would add more "race on sunday, sell on Monday" for the manufactures.

 

[Gordonfan24]

I also like seeing NASCAR go to trying different things. "Testing the waters", as said by one reporter whose article I read.
NASCAR is bustin' it's brain to try to cut costs and get more "one-timers" or "one-shot deals" into the series'. But with all this talk of travel, how much do you think it'll take to transport 50 or 60 race teams, two cars from each, and about 10-12 crew members from each team across the pond? I'd say well more than NASCAR is willing to pay. . . just to see how good the fan base is over there. It would just cost NASCAR in the end. The main reason the NCTS and NBS haven't gone to road courses in years is because of costs. There's not as many people willing to go to a road race compared to an oval, when you think about your view of the race; at a road course, say Watkins Glen for example, there are grandstands in a few corners, and grass seating along the track, but you can't see the whole track. At any other track on the NASCAR schedule, you can pretty much see the whole field and everything.

And someone mentioned North Wilkesboro? You mean North Wilkesboro, N.C.? NASCAR used to race there, but then left the track for good. I forget when but it was a while ago.

I am 100% for diversity of the race tracks in the series - I just don't see races in Europe or Asia (e.g. - Suzuka, like in the past) in the near future.

 

[Blake]

Maybe I just have different tastes in racing. I tend to admire talent and driving skill more than "rubbing is racing" stuff better left for a short track event on Saturday night. I wouldn't mind seeing NASCAR try out Sebring. Hey. If stock car racing originated in the southeast, why not a southeast track? It's in the same state of the Great American race, Florida. All I say is "try something new." That's why I admired Jeff Gordon for racing a Formula One race car outside of his #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo, even if for only one day. Not many people would try something new. When I type about trying something new, I don't mean stock car => sprint car. Trying something new (especially among the same style of sport) means stock car to GT car. Formula One to Rally. You know, something more challenging. Even sportscars to Indy cars is a good transition, especially with some of the sportscar and F1 racers who come to America to race IRL and Champ Car.

I'm no NASCAR fan, and I'm not fond of ovals. I completely agree, racing is (or should be, at least IMO) about talend, I mean road racing takes alot more skill to overtake, overtaking on an oval is relatively easy, there's really little effort needed. But to overtake on a road course, now that is a whole new stack of potatoes, it takes alot of skill and depending on the series, usually takes alot of balls.

This is the type of racing I love, ovals just don't do it for me.

But I think it can only be good for the sport to expand and try out some road racing, I think the think that made CART so good (before it's demise)was that it spread to most corners of the glode, North America, Europe, South America and Australia. I think global expansion can only help the sport, but the run the risk of losing the strong fan-base they have in America. They own US motorsport at the moment, and they run the risk of losing that domination if they go overseas, but they also have the possibilty of capturing a worldwide fanbase (god forbid).

Blake

 

[y2kgamer]

About the state of open wheel racing in the US...

CART is still around except it's now known as the Champ Car World Series. I hope CART can bounce back. It's the closest thing us Americans have to Formula 1. They need to broadcast ALL of the races on network TV instead of splitting it between CBS, NBC, and SPEED (which is a cable channel).

The Indy Racing League isn't as popular as NASCAR. But they added 3 road courses to their schedule this season (so it's no longer all oval racing). They also need to should also broadcast ALL of the races on network TV instead of splitting it between ABC, and ESPN (which is also a cable channel).

Both the Champ Car World Series and the IRL also need to advertise more to attract new fans.

Open wheel racing used to be much better in the US before the CART/IRL split. That split divided the fan base and we still haven't recovered from it. Having only one top open-wheel racing league in the US might increase the fanbase, but they're probably not getting back together anytime soon.

I like Formula 1, but the last several seasons have been BORING since no one can compete with Michael Schumacher (i.e. he basically won the championship around the middle of the season). In most races I've seen, there are large gaps between cars, and hardly any lead changes whatsoever. Most of the races I've seen just became a parade of cars following the leader. All of the F1 races are broadcast on SPEED Channel (which you have to pay to get) in the US instead of on network TV. And if you wanna watch a live broadcast, chances are it's in the middle of the night since F1 only runs one race in the US. And there aren't any American F1 teams or drivers. When you look at all of these points, you can see why F1 isn't popular here in the US.

But I like NASCAR too. Bumper-to-bumper racing at with lots of passing (even on road courses) is exciting. And NASCAR has "playoffs." The top 10 drivers advance to the Chase For The Cup. Those top 10 drivers compete for the championship in the final 10 races of the season. It makes it much more exciting. In fact, last season's NASCAR Nextel Cup Series champion (Kurt Busch) won the Nextel Cup in the final race. ALL NASCAR Nextel Cup races are broadcast on network TV (FOX and NBC). I became a NASCAR fan after the 2001 season because I was able to follow the entire season on TV. NASCAR also advertises a lot which has brought in a lot of new fans who aren't from the Southeastern part of America (like myself). NASCAR is doing a lot of things right which is why it's the fastest growing spectator sport in America.

BTW, I'm glad someone mentioned Jeff Gordon (who has a played a big role in making NASCAR popular). He's a NASCAR driver who can win on both oval and road courses. Based on what I've seen over the past few years though, the rest of the regular NASCAR drivers are improving their road racing skills.

 

[Blake]

I know CART is now known as the Champ Car World Series, I'm a huge fan of the series but I said "before it's demise" as it was the demise of Championship Auto Racing Teams...So CART, as it was, is now (unfortunatly) dead, though in 2006 Champ Car will be for the first time increasing the specs of the cars and allowing more engine and chassis to be used, so it will be an exciting time for the sport.

And I have to disargree about F1 being boring, I can see why the typical person may find it boring, but racing isn't all about passing, it's about having the speed, the skill, and the balls to make a risky manouvre that is very hard and shouldn't be so easy like it is in NASCAR, in NASCAR a pass isn't really a pass, there's no having to brake in the dirty part of the track or any other that, it's just build up the speed and slingshot past you opponent, there's very little risk, despite this they manage to have a mojor crash every other week

Sorry if that came out a bit muddled, it's 12am and I've been up since 5...

Blake

Blake[/color]

 

[y2kgamer]

I know about the demise of CART. A few of the top teams (like Target Chip Ganassi Racing) left for IRL. Several top drivers (like Juan Montoya and Helio Castroneves) left for IRL and Formula 1.

GT3 introduced me to F1, and got me interested in F1. I've watched a several F1 races over the past 4 years.

I like playing F1 games, but I just can't watch it now for the following reasons.

1) In the US, F1 races are only broadcast on SPEED channel. I don't want to pay for cable TV so it's physically impossible for me to watch it.

2) There's only one F1 race held in the US. In order for me to watch a live broadcast, I'd have to wake up around 4 AM or something.

3) I like watching passing and lead changes. That's competitive racing! There's much more passing and lead changes in Champ Car and NASCAR road races.

4) I don't want to watch so many follow the leader type races.

5) There aren't any American F1 teams or American F1 drivers.

6) Michael Schumacher has been winning the championship around the middle of the season for past few years! There's no competition!

I would probably be a Formula 1 fan if they could solve those problems.

But I'd still be a NASCAR fan. Who says NASCAR fans and F1 fans can't get along?

 

[Blake]

Nothing syas that, it's just my opinion that oval racing isn't as exciting as road racing, I'm not saying people are wrong to like NASCAR, whatever floats your boat, I'm simply stating that I believe road racing is better than oval racing, I can accept that many people will probably disagree with me.

Blake

 

[y2kgamer]

Nothing syas that, it's just my opinion that oval racing isn't as exciting as road racing, I'm not saying people are wrong to like NASCAR, whatever floats your boat, I'm simply stating that I believe road racing is better than oval racing, I can accept that many people will probably disagree with me.

Blake

Ok, no problem.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The thing with NASCAR is that they've only gotten it half-right, like most other forms of road motorsport. NASCAR is considered one of the closest championships in the world because all the cars are so closely matched. Look at F1 with Ferrari's dominance (Schumacher's retirement at Albert Park was their first DNF for a loooong time), or the V8s where Ford is only just making a comeback? While NASCAR might be close, it falls short because of the medicore tracks. Sure, ovals might be highly technical and spectator-friendly, but when all but two races per year are on ovals, it does get boring. Which is precisely why the Mexican race is great: not only does the championship go to another country, it uses a track that's perfect for a series like this (though the F1 drivers hated it).

In fact, of all the types of motorsport in the world, the best is JGTC. Their system of weight penalties based on qualifying and finishing positions helps bring the field a little closer together, and with two racing classes there's always a battle going on for position.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

In fact, of all the types of motorsport in the world, the best is JGTC. Their system of weight penalties based on qualifying and finishing positions helps bring the field a little closer together, and with two racing classes there's always a battle going on for position.

We have something even better than the hyper xenophobic and completely irrelevant to production cars JGTC. We have the Speed World Challenge. It combines production based sports car and saloon racing with a strong tuner influence, close racing through carefully managed modifications and their own penalty weight system.

In order to run a car in the Speed World Challenge, you have to submit it to the SCCA and pay a homologation fee if they decide the car fits the series' criteria and then you have to submit the VTS (Vehicle Technical Specifications) which outlines your modifications, and gives the SCCA its guide to restricting or relieving the rules upon the car to bring it to parity.

With the Touring division introducing forced induction for the first year ever (Dodge SRT-4's, Mini Cooper S's, VW Golf 1.8T's, Subaru WRX's, and so on) and new cars in GT such as the C6 Corvette, new generation of Mustangs, and the updated Pontiac GTO, this year will prove to be one of the best years yet in SCCA Speed World Challenge.

 

[JohnBM01]

You talk about (then) CART and oval racing? I thought when the 500 race at California with CART back in 1999 was insane! It was sad for Greg Moore to be killed at the race, but the speeds were incredible. I almost thought California for Indy and Champ Cars was the equivalent of Daytona with stock cars. I think the IRL has some close finishes for an oval-happy series.

When it comes to popular racing series availabe to America, I've read of NASCAR's success, Champ Car, IRL, and Formula One. When it comes to marketing and profitability, who in your mind seems like odd man out? And why do you think Speed World Challenge isn't given as much attention in America as NASCAR?

 

[Blake]

It depends how you would determine the odd one. Out of those (NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL and F1) NASCAR is clearly an odd one out as it isn't an open wheel series. Then again Champ Car is the odd one out as it is the only one that races on road courses, street courses and ovals.

I guess I'll get back to your question about marketing and profitability, NASCAR is clearly the odd one out, it is the only one that has got it right for the American Market, internationally Champ Car is the favoured US series, at least in Australia, Canada and Mexico. And of course F1 owns the international motorsport market.

Blake