2016 Formula 1 Grand Premio de MexicoFormula 1

[SVT Cobra GT]

Are you saying you agree with this and it's obvious why he wasn't, or the opposite, that this is just a load of crap and the real reason is more dubious?

The former. Yes he cut across the grass but he didn't then speed off into the distance, he backed off and then the VSC and safety car came out and practically wiped out any advantage.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The former. Yes he cut across the grass but he didn't then speed off into the distance, he backed off and then the VSC and safety car came out and practically wiped out any advantage.

Okay sorry, I was just confused a bit. Thanks for the response 👍

 

[Dhalism]

Someone kindly pointed out on reddit that Rosberg cut the track in canada twice in 14 and was not penalized.


It's clear that there are three unique categories of track cutting as stewards see them - defending an overtake, completing an overtake, and everything else. I understand how you might think Hamilton deserved a penalty but so many claiming that Verstappen did the same is insane. Verstappen was being overtaken, Lewis wasn't.

 

[United6694]

Rosberg followed the yellow line?
Isn't there a big bollard now that you have to really slow down for?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

This year (and maybe 2015 as well) there was a polystyrene block and a lane that the cars had to navigate to slow them down. You can kind of see it here (3rd video down):

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...in-canada---the-best-moves-from-montreal.html

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Toto Wolff said that they wanted to pit Hamilton in after the first lap when he flat-spotted his tires in the first corner, the tire metric data for Hamilton was 'off the scale' and a suspension failure could've easily happened according to Toto, they would've pitted him in if it didn't have title implications.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Someone kindly pointed out on reddit that Rosberg cut the track in canada twice in 14 and was not penalized.


It's clear that there are three unique categories of track cutting as stewards see them - defending an overtake, completing an overtake, and everything else. I understand how you might think Hamilton deserved a penalty but so many claiming that Verstappen did the same is insane. Verstappen was being overtaken, Lewis wasn't.

Yeah I pointed this out in an earlier post, just didn't have the video. They cut the track this year too at the same spot, so that's why I argue that as long as you redress the situation you should be fine, as is the case for any race series on the planet when it comes to this issue.

 

[Famine]

So from what I can tell, Vettel's penalty is Verstappen's fault, and Verstappen's penalty is Hamilton's fault...

... so it's all Hamilton's fault.

 

[coryclifford]

Seems like legit thought process.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Hamilton slowed up after his cut, which meant he didn't gain an advantage. Also being turn 1 and lap 1 the FIA very rarely gives penalties (look at the nonsense at Spa every year).

Verstappen locked up under pressure from Vettel and had he tried to make the turn Vettel would have passed him. He didn't bother slowing up afterwards (doing so would good as give the place away) so got penalised.

Vettel (along with others) has complained non stop about Verstappen's antics all year. The FIA brought in a rule to stop movement while braking which Vettel promptly did.

If I was Verstappen I'd have given the place back just before the stadium section, got on Vettel's gearbox on the way out then use the DRS to pass.

 

[Samus]

had he tried to make the turn Vettel would have passed him.

So would half of the field if Hamilton tried.

 

[Spurgy 777]

So from what I can tell it's all Hamilton's fault.

FTFY, you made it much more long winded than you needed to.

 

[dingodile_r89]

(look at the nonsense at Spa every year).

That's the nature of La Source more than anything.

 

[Liquid]

That's the nature of La Source more than anything.

And the same "nature" (i.e. construction) equally applies to T1 Mexico; lots of run off and nothing to really slow the cars down.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it fosters the idea for drivers to cut the track, because one would like to maintain that drivers want to race on the track as fairly as is maximally possible, but at some corners it certainly doesn't punish them or put them at a disadvantage which leaving the track ought to.

Is it like a case of the safety paradox? That giving drivers the safe comfort of run-off has the unintentional side effect of allowing drivers to drive more recklessly with their overtaking and braking. If there was a gravel trap there, a driver would have to be more careful about his braking or about a cavalier overtake because if the attacker does mistime his manoeuver and lock up, he cannot just keep his foot down and rejoin with nary a scratch.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's worth bearing in mind that the speed trap sits right before the braking zone for Turn 1, and Valtteri Bottas set a new speed record of 375.6km/h over the weekend. Given the argument for tarmac run-off areas - that if a car catches in gravel, it can flip easily - sticking a gravel run-off area right after the single fastest part of the calendar doesn't seem entirely wise.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Maybe taller thicker grass? Something that slows the car but they can drive through.

 

[FutureF1]

Do what Codies do and add what they use in their games where they cut engine power if all 4 wheels go off track.... I feel like that could be implemented in the near future and will penalize a driver for going off without giving a time penalty.

 

[Liquid]

Do what Codies do

Can we use the rewind function to have V10s again?

 

[dingodile_r89]

And the same "nature" (i.e. construction) equally applies to T1 Mexico; lots of run off and nothing to really slow the cars down.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it fosters the idea for drivers to cut the track, because one would like to maintain that drivers want to race on the track as fairly as is maximally possible, but at some corners it certainly doesn't punish them or put them at a disadvantage which leaving the track ought to.

Maybe add those speed bump like things that are on Les Combes? Or grass first and then a patch of gravel, so the cars have time to slow down before they hit gravel.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Come to think of it gravel probably wouldn't be so bad. They're coming in from such a high speed that if they straight cut across the gravel they shouldn't get bogged down and beached right?

 

[mustafur]

Come to think of it gravel probably wouldn't be so bad. They're coming in from such a high speed that if they straight cut across the gravel they shouldn't get bogged down and beached right?

They would probably roll instead.

 

[TenEightyOne]

They would probably roll instead.

And drivers who didn't roll or bounce into the wall would be ploughing gravel straight back onto the circuit.

 

[Famine]

White line | Kerb | Glue | Crocodile-infested moat | Wall of burning petrol | Pile of cardboard boxes | Paparazzi | Beach | Pit lined with punji sticks | Chinese fingerpuzzle | Escaped leopards | Narnia

 

[andrea]

 

[daan]

All you need is a strip of uneven gravel, or a ditch, or a wall there.

 

[Liquid]

True. You don't need to gravel all of it but enough to make cutting the corner a deterrent rather than an alternative.

Edit: Or we could settle this all in a monster game of football, going by the number of pitches there...

 

[Touring Mars]

All you need is a strip of uneven gravel, or a ditch, or a wall there.

View attachment 602488

?

 

[sems4arsenal]

off-topic ish but Lewis's joker outfit was amazing

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

All you need is a strip of uneven gravel, or a ditch, or a wall there.

View attachment 602488

This is way too dangerous in case of turn 1 accident. You have to remember that Monaco wouldnt pass FIA regulations now. There's rules and if gravel trap are not here anymore it's for a reason, they are dangerous and tend to flip the car over, same for uneven, we dont want a f1 car to jump in case of brake failure like it happen to Grosjean/Guttierez. And a wall, dont even get me start on it.

It's always easy to say you can do that or this but if you think a bit more about safety and rules, it's not that easy. Beside like I said before, lots of tracks have similar pass and it never bothered anyone when people in front cut them because of mistake. For me the mistake was done by the Whiting and co by penalizing Max under the drivers pressure.
I find it also funny when drivers that used to have a dirty reputation are taken as steward, makes no sens. I never saw a old tennis, bball, football, rugby, etc... players acting as a referee why do are they doing it on F1 ?

 

[daan]

This is way too dangerous in case of turn 1 accident. You have to remember that Monaco wouldnt pass FIA regulations now. There's rules and if gravel trap are not here anymore it's for a reason, they are dangerous and tend to flip the car over, same for uneven, we dont want a f1 car to jump in case of brake failure like it happen to Grosjean/Guttierez. And a wall, dont even get me start on it.

It's always easy to say you can do that or this but if you think a bit more about safety and rules, it's not that easy. Beside like I said before, lots of tracks have similar pass and it never bothered anyone when people in front cut them because of mistake. For me the mistake was done by the Whiting and co by penalizing Max under the drivers pressure.
I find it also funny when drivers that used to have a dirty reputation are taken as steward, makes no sens. I never saw a old tennis, bball, football, rugby, etc... players acting as a referee why do are they doing it on F1 ?

What direction would a T1 accident be going?

A high speed T1 accident wouldn't be going that direction. If it was going that direction, it would be a slow speed, exit of T1, accident.

And Blundell, Pirro, Sullivan & Co don't have 'dirty reputations'.