2016 Formula 1 Grand Premio de MexicoFormula 1

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah I realized that as well, which is why I think the best case would have been not giving Max a penalty, rather coming over the radio despite this precedent of five laps to go stewards are on a coffee break.

True, but should the stewards look at all possible consequences or just the matter at hand??

For sure a slippery slope.

The stewards have always been far more lenient towards drivers on the first lap (and, at the risk of spoiling the moment, it's probably why Hamilton gets away with so much at the start). They appreciate that the start of the race is the time when all of the cars are closest together at any point in the race, and so there is a higher likelihood of something happening.

In the case of Hamilton, a five second stop-go penalty to be seved at his first stop would have been an adequate penalty. The incident was clearly Hamilton's doing and totally avoidable, though the net gain was debatable. Still, it would have made the stewards' point without radically affecting the outcome of the race because Hamilton would have been able to overcome it.

Perhaps Turn 1 needs a Sochi-style penalty bollard, forcing drivers to take to a slow lane to negate any advantage.

 

[BrainsBush]

Perhaps Turn 1 needs a Sochi-style penalty bollard, forcing drivers to take to a slow lane to negate any advantage.

That was the first reaction of e.g. David Coulthard immediately after the race: "just put in gravel".

 

[05XR8]

Someone on Speedcafe.com posted this

"...and Dan just smiled and gave him a Vegemite.... sandwich..... (insert pan flute here)."

 

[Touring Mars]

Vettel's penalty is very, very harsh - if I were him I'd go and tell Charlie Whiting to.... oh, wait...

Such a shame that the race was dogged with these issues and barely much else... in a sport/race where action and excitement is thin on the ground at the moment, it is not good that the only bits of actual interest are immediately 'under investigation' or result in a penalty... and when the stewards said 'No Further Action', they clearly weren't kidding - there was barely any 'action' at all.

Still, Red Bull must be the first team in history to celebrate two 3rd place finishes, two 4th places and two 5th places - in the same bloody race!

 

[Liquid]

a 5s penalty for Lewis won't do anything to the result though, he was over 8 seconds ahead

Yes, it doesn't actually affect the race result as it turns out with 5s added on but I don't see how they can let it slide for him but penalise Max for the same thing.

You say Hamilton ultimately finished 8 seconds ahead of Rosberg and that a 5 second time penalty wouldn't have made a difference but the difference is that Verstappen/Vettel happened within 5 laps of the finish and therefore would be investigated after the race, whereas Hamilton doing a Colin McRae happened at a time in the race where it would be investigated immediately.

It's possible that the stewards could have made Hamilton yield a few places and we would have had a different race, a different winner... a different championship?

It's also possible that he could have been given a time penalty and Mercedes-Benz would have taken it during one of his pitstops.

Or indeed, it's possible that it would have been added to his final race time. But knowing that a penalty was forthcoming, would he have driven a different race?

Penalties are penalties. All incidents of equal magnitude and of comparable advantage should be subject to the same punishments. Arguably, Hamilton gained a much, much greater advantage than Verstappen and lap one or not it's quite glaring that it wasn't even mentioned, never mind investigated.

I'm a firm believer in principle when it comes to things like this. Even if it doesn't affect a race outcome, all drivers should be subject to the same rules and penalties.

Or as someone mentioned, turn T1 into a gravel trap. No advantage is even possible by cutting there and you would have races decided on the track instead of off it.

 

[andrea]

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I dont get this, Lewis wasnt even investigated why all the fuss. If something is unfair is Max getting a penalty not the other way around for me. In Monza you often see people overshooting the 2nd chicane and going straight and I never ever heard of a penalty being discussed for it. Same for Canada last chicane.

For me the penalties are getting out of hands, they wanted to penalize Max for a while and jump on the first fake occasion to do it. Now I'm not of fan of the block move Max is doing but I think it was ridiculous he got penalized in Mexico. I think Vettel deserve it tho. He's turning back into the a-hole I dislike.

Happy for Ricciardo tho.

 

[Jimlaad43]

What helped Lewis was Rosberg and Verstappen tripping over each other. If they hadn't hit each other and made Rosberg cut the chicane, then I reckon Lewis would have been investigated. But as they did hit and slowed each other down , there wasn't much advantage to be gained. The Safety Car came out and negated any time gained so the stewards just left it at that.

That said, it is the last Turn 1 on the calendar where you can miss your braking and make up time rather than losing it, so it may have been a very canny decision, although I highly doubt it, looking at the lock-up and how damaging it was.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Here's the image we want to see, comparing Mercedes all year.

So where they have both been unaffected, it has been 3-2 to Hamilton. Poor Starts: Hamilton has made 4, while Rosberg only 2. The Spain and Austria collision were the only ones caused by either driver, while Rosberg also got a stupid penalty at Silverstone, and a more deserving (but still debatable) one in Germany.

Make what you want from that.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Lewis wasnt even investigated why all the fuss.

Precisely because he wasn't investigated. He and Verstappen did the same thing in the same place, but Hamilton wasn't so much as investigated while Verstappen was found to have gained an advantage and lost a podium finish as a result.

 

[Touring Mars]

The difference being, though, that Verstappen was being directly challenged by Vettel and took to the run-off to avoid losing the place, whereas Hamilton locked a wheel and went off unintentionally - also, as Jimlaad said, Hamilton didn't gain an advantage because the two cars behind were challenging for position behind, and not challenging Hamilton's position. The subsequent safety car a few moments later rendered any possible time gained by Hamilton irrelevant.

 

[psychoazubi]

The difference being, though, that Verstappen was being directly challenged by Vettel and took to the run-off to avoid losing the place, whereas Hamilton locked a wheel and went off unintentionally - also, as Jimlaad said, Hamilton didn't gain an advantage because the two cars behind were challenging for position behind, and not challenging Hamilton's position. The subsequent safety car a few moments later rendered any possible time gained by Hamilton irrelevant.

Hamilton did indeed slow down just before VSC, according to the Telemetry data (found that on auto-motor-sport). And Verstappen/Rosberg lost some time because of the fight for position 2 which was also mentioned by the Stewards after the race. So Hamilton did not get an advantage, so it is okay that he wasn't penalized. But I think they should have "officially" investigated what he did. Then, the discussions would be a little "calmer", I think

 

[Jimlaad43]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-why-hamilton-escaped-mexican-gp-turn-1-sanction-845383/

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-why-hamilton-escaped-mexican-gp-turn-1-sanction-845383/

To be fair, anyone with a droplet of common sense would know why he wasn't penalised.

 

[Famine]

Has any driver in history ever been sanctioned for taking themselves off at Lap 1, Turn 1 and had no position change as a result of their solo incident?

 

[Samus]

Makes no sense to me, the advantage he gained is that he didn't flatspot his tire and didn't lose places going off track by cutting out a corner.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

didn't lose places going off track by cutting out a corner.

But is that necessarily fair? As soon as Verstappen ran wide (as is the case every time this happens), Martin Brundle asked whether he should keep the place because although he didn't gain anything from it, he didn't lose anything either. So when a driver makes an error the size of the one Hamilton and Verstappen made and nothing changes despite it, the question has to be asked whether that is fair.

 

[Samus]

But is that necessarily fair? As soon as Verstappen ran wide (as is the case every time this happens), Martin Brundle asked whether he should keep the place because although he didn't gain anything from it, he didn't lose anything either. So when a driver makes an error the size of the one Hamilton and Verstappen made and nothing changes despite it, the question has to be asked whether that is fair.

I'm not sure if you're saying the same thing as I am. What I'm saying is they both made a big mistake running miles off track that should have cost them places, but by cutting a corner out they prevented that. Once Hamilton had the lock-up the only way to retain the lead was to lift off and cut a corner, if he'd attempted to make the corner he'd have ended up with a flat spot and lost places. So to say he gained no advantage is hogwash to me.

The underlying point is also that I still don't see how the two were any different, Vettel wasn't even attempting an overtake so the FIA claim that "the Dutchman had only been able to retain his position by driving across the grass and rejoining the track" seems no different to Hamilton, to me, except for the coincidence that the two drivers right behind him were also tussling.

If you ask me the reason he wasn't penalised is because the FIA want a close title showdown in Abu Dhabi, and so does Abu Dhabi.

 

[Liquid]

To be perfectly honest, if I was the race steward I wouldn't have penalised anyone. Not Hamilton, not Verstappen, not Vettel and not Ricciardo.

But given that they did investigate Verstappen it's only fair to at least investigate Hamilton for an equal bout of daisy cutting even if for just a "no further action necessary" decision.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If you ask me the reason he wasn't penalised is because the FIA want a close title showdown in Abu Dhabi, and so does Abu Dhabi.

I wouldn't be so cynical. Abu Dhabi might want it, but I suspect that the FIA's motivations are much more benign - they won't want to be seen as interfering with the outcome of the championship.

 

[Samus]

I wouldn't be so cynical. Abu Dhabi might want it, but I suspect that the FIA's motivations are much more benign - they won't want to be seen as interfering with the outcome of the championship.

I don't see why not, they've done it before. Belgium 2008 for example, and some even more cynical than myself claim it was because they wanted a Ferrari win that year. I don't believe it but I don't believe they're above making sure the championship goes to the wire if they can do so without being too obvious about it.

 

[Dreadmed]

Well, I seem to remember back in '06 that a few penalties (at the time) were considered to be odd and/or outright dubious, because of the theory that the FIA wanted a down to the wire title fight between Alonso and Schumacher. Alonso getting penalised for overtaking/dangerous driving with yellow flags out during practise in Hungary, with Schumi later picking up a penalty as well for the same under a red flag (can't be having double standards!). However, the more outrageous incident was Alonso having his Q3 qualifying times in Italy wiped out for "impeding" Massa, even though he was comfortably ahead of him.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

in a sport/race where action and excitement is thin on the ground at the moment, it is not good that the only bits of actual interest are immediately 'under investigation' or result in a penalty...

And this besides a few other things is the biggest problem that F1 has nowadays. And they also only seem to penalize whenever it fits their narratives, which includes sometimes just giving penalties to appear as the "fair guy".
I know it's all steered from above, but I really think the stewards in charge need to go, it's always the same 3? guys (1 woman I think?) and a "driver steward" who clearly only serves an alibi function.
They needed to be replaced with more objective and independent people to make F1 more attractive again in the long run, but that's probably wishful thinking...

Still, Red Bull must be the first team in history to celebrate two 3rd place finishes, two 4th places and two 5th places - in the same bloody race!

Probably, which shows just how messed up the whole thing is.
I really wanna know what Vettel says or thinks about all this, but he probably feels more comfortable to not say anything about it right now, I suppose.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I really wanna know what Vettel says or thinks about all this, but he probably feels more comfortable to not say anything about it right now, I suppose.

Well, today's your lucky day... although there's nothing unpredictable in there

 

[Sureboss]

Makes no sense to me, the advantage he gained is that he didn't flatspot his tire and didn't lose places going off track by cutting out a corner.

It was also far safer for Hamilton to do what he did, if he'd tried to rejoin the track it would have been in to a train of cars and wouldn't have been that dangerous.

Though I'd agree that gravelling that would make more sense. I think the track needs plenty more changes to make it less dull too. Last year's race wasn't great either.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Well, today's your lucky day... although there's nothing unpredictable in there

Haha, ok yeah that doesn't say much at all, but is about what I'd expect from a PR statement. Most interesting part is that Kimi Raikonnen speaks of himself as "we".

 

[Samus]

but I really think the stewards in charge need to go, it's always the same 3? guys (1 woman I think?) and a "driver steward" who clearly only serves an alibi function.

Actually it's the opposite problem, they're different every weekend.

Garry Connelly
Silvia Bellot
Danny Sullivan

Was the line-up this weekend whereas last weekend in the US:

Paul Gutjahr
Silvia Bellot
Mark Blundell

So actually for a change one carried over. But for Japan:

Garry Connelly
Enzo Spano
Emanuele Pirro

Three totally different people.

 

[mustafur]

Makes no sense to me, the advantage he gained is that he didn't flatspot his tire and didn't lose places going off track by cutting out a corner.

He did flatspot, according to him he could barely see the vibration was soo intense.

 

[Samus]

He did flatspot, according to him he could barely see the vibration was soo intense.

Would've been a whole lot worse if he'd made an effort to take T1 and T2 though.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To be fair, anyone with a droplet of common sense would know why he wasn't penalised.

Are you saying you agree with this and it's obvious why he wasn't, or the opposite, that this is just a load of crap and the real reason is more dubious?