2016 Formula 1 Grand Premio de MexicoFormula 1

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm still confused about the potential dangerous driving the stewards claim, but we look at the last lap of Austin between Alonso and Massa and that went unpunished. I no longer understand what is and isn't racing at this point and it's a bit ridiculous. I'd love if the FIA and drivers got together and did an entire revamp of etiquette over the winter.

 

[Jubby]

I can understand the penalty for Vettel, having moved right on the straight to take up the racing line, then in the braking zone, angling his car towards the apex early to defend.

How can that make any sense? It's not like he angled his car to the inside turf. He aimed to the apex early--- since he was in control of his car, that would be his right--- wouldn't it? Otherwise, someone needs to paint lines on the track that says where they can and can't go...

...wait they've done that already.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How can that make any sense? It's not like he angled his car to the inside turf. He aimed to the apex early--- since he was in control of his car, that would be his right--- wouldn't it? Otherwise, someone needs to paint lines on the track that says where they can and can't go...

...wait they've done that already.

Also looking at the start of that defense Seb did move to the left and then after that began to brake, but his car was positioned in a way that it angled toward the apex and kept pinching Daniel in. This is why Daniel felt it was on purpose, but when you take into consideration the lock up as well, it's hard to say if it was on purpose or not. It's borderline really. Still doesn't change the fact that last GP we saw someone move under braking and not get a penalty.

 

[Hearse]

Daniel getting 3rd has to be good. Right?

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Daniel getting 3rd has to be good. Right?

Let's ask the ones affected.

 

[05XR8]

Aussies and 4 wheel lockups into hairpins, must be a growing trend.

 

[GTFan24]

 

[Whodoyouthink]

Ok, finally got to catch a replay.

Guys, Alonso could sunbathe in the heat between the 'Bulls and Zee ANGRY German!

Despite how dirty and distasteful this drama has been, it was certainly entertaining. I recall an Alonso quote where he said something along the lines about how F1 is a comedy not a drama, and that we shouldn't take everything that goes on in it very seriously.

Furthermore, I want to believe Rosberg intentionally grabbed the 1st hat, I swear he put it on with a slight smirk.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ok, finally got to catch a replay.

Guys, Alonso could sunbathe in the heat between the 'Bulls and Zee ANGRY German!

Despite how dirty and distasteful this drama has been, it was certainly entertaining. I recall an Alonso quote where he said something along the lines about how F1 is a comedy not a drama, and that we shouldn't take everything that goes on in it very seriously.

Furthermore, I want to believe Rosberg intentionally grabbed the 1st hat, I swear he put it on with a slight smirk.

Glad you saw that too, I made comment about that earlier. I was like "that's a bit cheeky", and then he seemed like he'd done something bad after he gave it back.

 

[Milouse]

The official report regarding Vettel's 10 seconds penalty:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 14:41 Session Race
Fact Driving dangerously or erratically approaching turn 4.
Offence Breach of Article 27.5 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Decision
10 Second Time Penalty imposed after the race in accordance with Article 38.3 (10 seconds added to elapsed race time) (2 penalty points awarded, 6 points total for the 12 month period)

Reason
The stewards paid particular attention to the Race Directors Notes from the US Grand Prix (v2) and from this event (point 18). Notwithstanding the F1 Commission directive to “let the drivers race” we note the concern that has been expressed about manoeuvrers involving a change of direction under braking as expressed at the Drivers Briefing at the US Grand Prix and in the Race Director’s Notes from the US Grand Prix and this event. The telemetry and video evidence shows that the driver of Car 5 did change direction under braking. Article 27.5 and the Race Director’s Notes have essentially three criteria that determine a breach 1) Driving in a manner potentially dangerous 2) An abnormal change of direction 3) Another driver having to take evasive action The video footage, including the close circuit footage, the broadcast vision, both drivers' on board cameras plus the telemetry show that there was an abnormal change of direction by Car 5 and this was considered to be potentially dangerous in view of the proximity of the wheels of each car. The video evidence clearly shows that Car 3 had to take evasive action as a result. Accordingly as all three criteria have been met, the driver of Car 5 is guilty of a breach of Article 27.5

 

[Grayfox]

Vettel needs to clam the F down,
It was clear that Verstappen gained an advantage and since he was not giving the place back he would have copped a penalty.
But due to Vettels own anger he got himself penalized.

But max needed to get a harsher penalty than 5 seconds.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Lol, Vettel must be fuming.
The only thing you could possibly make a case about is 3)
He forced Riciardo to take [evasive] action, but there was no collision (at least not a big one) and no one got forced off the track, it's a totally normal racing incident that usually doesn't even get looked at.

But I guess that's what you get when you tell the wrong people to 🤬 off.

It's ridiculous, 3 different third places in such short time. Plus I really feel there was nothing to punish Vettel for, especially considering this situation only happened because Verstappen kept blocking off Vettel.

This stuff with the inconsistent ruling is exactly what made me stop watching F1 a few years ago, that and that the cars sound like electrical toothbrushes.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

I'm gonna hazard a guess and say they won't use Medium tires next year. I'd like to see Ultra, Super, and Soft with them forced to use the Super once.

 

[Peter.]

I can't believe what I am seeing. Max refused to hand the position back, backed Vettel into Ricciardo resulting in the harsh racing the FIA decided to deem too harsh, for which Vettel was penalised, despite the circumstances.

Honestly Vettel's reaction is perfectly justified, he was robbed today. Getting a 10 secondnpenalty whioe Max got only 5 is even more ridiculous. Nevermind what Mark has to say, his job is to spew excrement to the media and ruin the careers of young F1 drivers not named Vettel or Verstappen. He serves no other purpose and deserves next to no credit for Red Bull's success over the past few years.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I suspect that the severity of the penalty levelled at Vettel is partially motivated by a desire to send him a very firm message: that his behaviour on the radio will not be tolerated. It was obvious that Verstappen was going to get a penalty, and Verstappen himself should have redressed the position. At the very least, Vettel should have recognised it for what it was. But his reaction on the radio abusing the stewards was completely unjustified. Arguably, it brought the sport into disrepute - you have a four-time World Champion (who lately seems to be quick to anger at the slightest provocation) telling the stewards to "seriously, **** off" because they didn't penalise another driver as soon as he would like (even though he knows full well that the stewards have an undpoken policy of investigating late-race incidents after the race to avoid interfering with the race outcome). In any other sport, a player abusing a referee like that would get sent off. There's nothing specific in the rules against it, but then until today, there was no need for such a rule today. So it would not surprise me in the slightest if the stewards decided to take a stand before this sort of thing gets out of control.

 

[Peter.]

If Vettel did not defend as hard as he did and was passed by Ricciardo, he'd have ended in 4th anyway regardless of Max''s penalty. The stewards can't give him a podium even if Max was blatantly trying to abuse the rules to give his team an advantage. Two wrongs don't make a right, but what was he supposed to do really?

Refusing to concede track position then abusing the rules to rev up a Trulli train is not illegal, but it's double diffuser levels of shady (spaces, not holes). Max is an evil genius and Vettel is a victim.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I can't believe what I am seeing. Max refused to hand the position back, backed Vettel into Ricciardo resulting in the harsh racing the FIA decided to deem too harsh, for which Vettel was penalised, despite the circumstances.

Honestly Vettel's reaction is perfectly justified, he was robbed today. Getting a 10 secondnpenalty whioe Max got only 5 is even more ridiculous. Nevermind what Mark has to say, his job is to spew excrement to the media and ruin the careers of young F1 drivers not named Vettel or Verstappen. He serves no other purpose and deserves next to no credit for Red Bull's success over the past few years.

Exactly! Max cut the corner and RBR knew they were going to lose that place and the next best thing for them to do was sabotage Vettels race to get Ric in third. I'ts cheating in my opinion.

To everyone in here who thinks sky is biased towards british drivers, try watching dutch F1 coverage. Max can do no wrong.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If Vettel did not defend as hard as he did and was passed by Ricciardo, he'd have ended in 4th anyway regardless of Max''s penalty. The stewards can't give him a podium even if Max was blatantly trying to abuse the rules to give his team an advantage. Two wrongs don't make a right, but what was he supposed to do really?

Refusing to concede track position then abusing the rules to rev up a Trulli train is not illegal, but it's double diffuser levels of shady (spaces, not holes). Max is an evil genius and Vettel is a victim.

Pull an Elsa and "let it go". At least that's the message I got from the FIA and Ferrari too

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If Vettel did not defend as hard as he did and was passed by Ricciardo, he'd have ended in 4th anyway regardless of Max''s penalty. The stewards can't give him a podium even if Max was blatantly trying to abuse the rules to give his team an advantage.

There's no guarantee that Vettel would have been able to hold third if he had passed Verstappen. Red Bull would have swapped Ricciardo and Verstappen, and with Ricciardo on fresher tyres, he could have taken Vettel.

 

[Mike-ZENKAI]

What a disaster of a race.

(IMHO)
They should have given Hamilton and Verstappen a penalty after the first lap already.

Hamilton for cutting turn 2. That a SC came has nothing to do with not giving him a penalty. He outbraked himself and if there was a sand trap or wall his race would be over.

And Max for forcing Rosberg wide after yet again a "optimistic" attack.

Tracks are a lot safer now and that is very good but missing a complete corner without any consequence is ridiculous.

Vettel should take his medicine on time. WTF is he thinking.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They should have given Hamilton and Verstappen a penalty after the first lap already.

Hamilton for cutting turn 2. That a SC came has nothing to do with not giving him a penalty. He outbraked himself and if there was a sand trap or wall his race would be over.

I agree, but in the case of Hamilton, it's a slippery slope. A penalty would be justified, but that opens the door to a reprimand - and a third reprimand means a ten-place grid penalty, which will all but hand the title to Rosberg, and all because of a relatively minor infraction.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What a disaster of a race.

(IMHO)
They should have given Hamilton and Verstappen a penalty after the first lap already.

Hamilton for cutting turn 2. That a SC came has nothing to do with not giving him a penalty. He outbraked himself and if there was a sand trap or wall his race would be over.

And Max for forcing Rosberg wide after yet again a "optimistic" attack.

Tracks are a lot safer now and that is very good but missing a complete corner without any consequence is ridiculous.

Vettel should take his medicine on time. WTF is he thinking.

I've already explained this in other posts, you don't base penalties on if it was this track or that track. You base it on the track they were at, which was in Mexico not Monaco or Japan. This notion that there is some control track and all decisions are based off or should be based of that is inane. In my opinion I agree with @prisonermonkeys a proper redress (preferably from the stewards) should have happened in all three cases (don't forget Kvyat). It happens in other series and it usually means restoring the original gap, however since an SC came about it was automatically restored in the potential advantage gained by both Hamilton and arguably Rosberg who was forced off.

Some tracks allow for that type of thing to happen, drivers are aware of that similar to that of tarmac areas in other tracks. It's the same cry that's heard when all four wheels go off on a corner at some tracks but you don't see it much at tracks with giant rib curves that would damage the car. Once again unless everyone is prepared to have a control that all track rules are based off of, then the complaint is moot.

I agree, but in the case of Hamilton, it's a slippery slope. A penalty would be justified, but that opens the door to a reprimand - and a third reprimand means a ten-place grid penalty, which will all but hand the title to Rosberg, and all because of a relatively minor infraction.

Yeah I realized that as well, which is why I think the best case would have been not giving Max a penalty, rather coming over the radio despite this precedent of five laps to go stewards are on a coffee break.

 

[Mike-ZENKAI]

I agree, but in the case of Hamilton, it's a slippery slope. A penalty would be justified, but that opens the door to a reprimand - and a third reprimand means a ten-place grid penalty, which will all but hand the title to Rosberg, and all because of a relatively minor infraction.

True, but should the stewards look at all possible consequences or just the matter at hand??

For sure a slippery slope.

 

[mustafur]

I agree, but in the case of Hamilton, it's a slippery slope. A penalty would be justified, but that opens the door to a reprimand - and a third reprimand means a ten-place grid penalty, which will all but hand the title to Rosberg, and all because of a relatively minor infraction.

I just want to say this is the closest I've ever seen you defend Hamilton in something, it brings a tear to the eye lolol.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I just want to say this is the closest I've ever seen you defend Hamilton in something, it brings a tear to the eye lolol.

In reality he's just defending the sanctity of the sport and a fair title fight. Hamilton got lucky this time.

 

[TiZzla]

The whole "can't move under brakes" rule is pretty stupid, half of the overtakes we see are made under brakes. Saying the defending car can't change his line under brakes means that the attacking car shouldn't be able to either and almost every late passing move would be made after they hit the brakes.

As long as there is no overlap drivers should be free to do whatever they want, and as long as no contact is made it should not be penalised. F1 races are already boring enough, the only exciting bits are the rare battles for position so why water them down?

 

[TenEightyOne]

(IMHO)
They should have given Hamilton and Verstappen a penalty after the first lap already.

There was a big difference though - Hamilton went onto the grass still unable to turn, Verstappen elected to go straight across even though he apparently was able to turn before the end of the concrete run-off. Given that stewards are normally much more forgiving of L1 Turn1 incidents due to the purely unknown nature of braking into the first turn it would have been abnormal to penalise Hamilton, Verstappen or Rosberg for the messy start.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Just woke up and seen Vettel got a penalty, not his biggest fan but I feel he got robbed there, enjoying that the FIA did that against a Ferrari though.

Feel the same as @prisonermonkeys that the punishment is linked to his message at the end of the race.

Edit: it is concerning though how there is no consistency from the stewards and not for the first time this season.

 

[NightHawkFur]

Hamilton won't get a penalty because that would possibly "ruin" the fight for Championship with Niko. It's all marketing.

 

[BrainsBush]

Everything to avoid a shoey?

VET will get a severe penalty for his voice acting. That;s still under investigation