Spain train crash: Galicia derailment kills 78

[Dennisch]

At least 78 people have been killed in the passenger train derailment in north-western Spain, officials say.

More than 140 were hurt, 20 seriously, after all eight carriages of the Madrid to Ferrol train came off the tracks near Santiago de Compostela.

Media reports say the train may have been travelling at more than twice the speed limit around a curve.

It is the worst train crash in Spain since 1944. Seven days of mourning have been declared in the Galicia region.

The driver told that he had been driving 190km/h where 80 was the limit...

BBC

Spanish newspaper El Pais has released a security cam feed of the actual crash.

Video of the train crashing.

 

[Touring Mars]

Terrible accident, thoughts and condolences to anyone who has been affected.

It would appear that this particular corner has been noted in the past as potentially dangerous, especially because it follows on immediately from a high speed section where drivers have to slow down dramatically in order to hit a low speed limit. It's currently not known how a modern train with all the appropriate safety systems and two drivers could hit this type of corner at that speed, but the drivers knew they were going to derail as they entered that section:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Im-at-190-kmph-and-were-going-to-derail.html

 

[XtremeBadass]

Sad accident.
My condolences to the family of victims.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

First Canada, now Spain.
My thoughts and prayers go out to those affected by this tragedy.

 

[Robin]

The video is horrifying, its rare that such a devastating accident is caught on a decent quality camera. It literally looks like a movie stunt, or a miniature Hornby train-set derailing.

I reckon if the wall wasn't on the side of the curve and it was open land more people would have survived because the energy could have dissipated much better. Instead everything was slammed into that wall.

And what's worse is this isn't some ageing train or line, its state of the art and pretty much new. Really sad especially as the French train crash happened only like a week ago.

 

[Dean]

This surely emphasises that speed is dangerous.

My condolences to everybody involved.

 

[PeterJB]

Modern trains automatically trigger the emergency brake when they exceed the speed limit, so obviously something has gone wrong there. Though you'd think that the driver would apply the emergency brake himself when going at that speed. Seems fishy to me.

 

[Slash]

What a terrible accident. Condolences go out to everyone involved.

 

[lbsf1]

F'ing hell.

Condolences to the families of all of those involved. Why on earth the driver thought going that fast was going to go well I will never understand.

 

[Sphinx]

It has been revealed that the driver of the train that derailed in Santiago de Compostela, Francisco Jose Garzon Amo, published a photo on his Facebook page showing off his train speed gauge at 200 kilometres per hour.

He confirmed to his contacts that this was no trick and on replying to the comments made, he replied “I am at the limit, I can’t go any faster, if not they will fine me”

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/news/item/114922-the-moment-the-spanish-train-derailed

If true, he's royally screwed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not to knit pick but I heard it was actually 80 people who died, as far as American news is reporting.

 

[Dennisch]

Not to knit pick but I heard it was actually 80 people who died, as far as American news is reporting.

At the time that I posted it it was 78.. But since there are still 36 people still in critical condition the number could still rise even more. But even if it doesn't, this is a serious accident which will be investigated quite heavily, since the driver posted pics of his train doing 200km/h on Facebook. Some where, some how there was a serious breach of regulation.

Also, if the wall wasn't there the train would have barreled into a residential area.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

At the time that I posted it it was 78.. But since there are still 36 people still in critical condition the number could still rise even more. But even if it doesn't, this is a serious accident which will be investigated quite heavily, since the driver posted pics of his train doing 200km/h on Facebook. Some where, some how there was a serious breach of regulation.

Also, if the wall wasn't there the train would have barreled into a residential area.

I understand just wanted people to have the correct number and understand how serious and wanted to know if the "facts" given on my end were right as well. Thanks.

Also I feel this might have had something fail more so than operator error, I hope more answers come soon.

 

[Dennisch]

 

[Encyclopedia]

What an absolutely horrific accident.

 

[Carlos]

Normally a train that's speeding automatically slows down, but there was no security system working at this point. Pretty awkward knowing it's just a few miles before entering the train station, so this raises a couple of more questions... It's also weird this happened at this corner, since it's known for 4 years there is something wrong with this corner since they already have problems at 100km/h.

 

[Shaun]

Modern trains automatically trigger the emergency brake when they exceed the speed limit, so obviously something has gone wrong there.

Not always, depends on the signalling and software involved. For example not all sections/limits are monitered automatically to apply the brake.
Normally the upper limit is monitered, lets say the highest limit is 250kmh the driver will get a warning at around 255 to give him a chance to slow before the brake is applied.

An emergency brake application is usually non recoverable meaning the train has to come to a complete stop before it can be moved again hence the warning.

Trains have a multitude of safety systems built in covering death of the driver, running reds signals and speed amongst others. Most of which can be overidden (and rightly so) by the driver. This sadly looks like driver error or more to the point him being a total moron.

Condolences to all involved.

 

[Carlos]

Not always, depends on the signalling and software involved. For example not all sections/limits are monitered automatically to apply the brake.
Normally the upper limit is monitered, lets say the highest limit is 250kmh the driver will get a warning at around 255 to give him a chance to slow before the brake is applied.

An emergency brake application is usually non recoverable meaning the train has to come to a complete stop before it can be moved again hence the warning.

Trains have a multitude of safety systems built in covering death of the driver, running reds signals and speed amongst others. Most of which can be overidden (and rightly so) by the driver. This sadly looks like driver error or more to the point him being a total moron.

Condolences to all involved.

Do you have any idea what is going on there? There is NO signalling, this is a high speed section, everything is digital. There could be a serious problem with the train it self. Don't point your finger like that at him now.

 

[Shaun]

Well I did read that the train had a meticulous maintenance record and had it's last inspection that day.

After working on trains for 23 years I like to think I know a bit about them.
When you say something was wrong do you mean that all modes of braking on that train were faulty?
Sorry but I find that very hard to believe.

 

[ranhammerR34]

*drops jaw* Holy freaking moly... my condolences to all the families involved and to the country of Spain. This guy may be in huge trouble.

 

[braunracing88]

A member from another fan site I'm a member of is among the victims.
http://www.animationsource.org/board/in-memory-of-gattel-t35724.html
Condolences to all those affected.

 

[Carlos]

Well I did read that the train had a meticulous maintenance record and had it's last inspection that day.

After working on trains for 23 years I like to think I know a bit about them.
When you say something was wrong do you mean that all modes of braking on that train were faulty?
Sorry but I find that very hard to believe.

That is unlikely to me too, but I can't imagine a train driver going those speeds assuming he knew where he was. The driver called before they were derailing, so there could be something going on. People crash their cars due to sudden body failures...

 

[PeterJB]

That is unlikely to me too, but I can't imagine a train driver going those speeds assuming he knew where he was. The driver called before they were derailing, so there could be something going on. People crash their cars due to sudden body failures...

That train would have three braking systems: the train brake, the locomotive brake, and the emergency brake. It the unlikely event that all three of those failed, and the throttle jammed, he could put the reverser in neutral, or put the pantograph down, cutting off the power supply.

 

[Shaun]

Carlos, I really do hope I'm wrong but personal experience and a hunch tells me it was the driver at fault. A lot of things would have to go wrong for the train to become out of control.

If this article is true then posting a picture on Facebook of a speedo at 200kmh isn't what I would call a normal procedure in an emergency. If the photo in that article is the actual one at the time he is still powering and there is no air in the brake cyclinders to try and slow him.

You are a train controller are you not?
Would it be safe to assume that a train of that age on new track would be able to be controlled by ERTMS as stated in this article or was it not fitted. If it was why didn't they slow him?

Unless......

A little story slightly off topic.

Around ten years ago a new fleet of suburban trains were bought from a well known manufacturer in Germany for Melbourne's metro service. After a few years of running stories from the drivers began to circulate that at times for a short amount of time they simply lost all control. Nothing on their panel worked, nothing.
Anyway it was taken seriously enough that a group of engineers came out from Germany to look at the problem. Many hours and lots of money was spent to try to get the fault to occur but to no avail, it was after all very rare.

Fast forward a couple of years and the same trains developed braking problems (well they were there from day one but that's neither here nor there) and I became heavily involved in working around a solution. It got to a point were the drivers wouldn't drive the trains. Once again the engineers from Germany came out to basically "prove" the drivers wrong and that there was nothing wrong with their train.

Well one night we were out brake testing a train when it happened while going around 100kmh. Driver lost all control of his panel, nothing worked, no brakes no power couldn't even drop the pantos. At that point the driver turned to the German engineer and said, well now what do you want me to do. Engineers face went ashen white and after a bit of frantically opening circuit breakers in the electrical cubicle eventually the driver was able to drop the pantos and coast to a halt.

To this day it's still not known what causes it but they knew about it but just wont admit it. We did fix the braking issue though.


Still after all that I'm putting this one down to driver error.

 

[Omnis]

Heard about this earlier, but only decided to check it out now. My goodness! What a tragedy. How the flying hell do you crash a train? As a conductor, you have to know that a bend like that is coming up. I can't believe that track isn't even banked or anything. They were going into that corner like a roller coaster.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

From what I have heard from my news in the U.S., is this guys supposedly gloated about how he would speed in his train, also it was said that they built this high speed rail quickly and somewhat on the cheaper end to counterparts in other countries.

Also Shaun has the article in his post about the conductor.

 

[Shaun]

How the flying hell do you crash a train?

Stupidity normally.



This

As a conductor, you have to know that a bend like that is coming up.

and this

Also Shaun has the article in his post about the conductor.

confused me slighty until I googled it. A simple language difference.

Over here a conductor checks tickets and interacts with the travelling public and has nothing to do with with operation of a train. More often than not they don't even go in the drivers cab.

Similar to I think how what we call a driver you guys call an engineer. In my post when I state engineer I'm referring to someone who has gone to uni to gain a degree in what ever engineering field that's relevant. In this case mechanical and electrical.

 

[Dennisch]

Death toll has been set back to 78. For now.

 

[GTsail]

What a terrible crash.

My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

It's also weird this happened at this corner, since it's known for 4 years there is something wrong with this corner since they already have problems at 100km/h.

I heard one source estimate that the train was traveling at 118mph (about 190km/h), instead of the 50mph that is recommended.

As Omnis mentions, this particular section of track seems to be only slightly banked, obviously not nearly enough banking for a train traveling at high-speed.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Carlos]

Shaun, I hate to say it but with the news I read today, you must be right. It's so sad though... With him speeding like an idiot and not having the pressure to apply the brakes, ouch.

Yes I'm a controller! You have good memory sir! Sorry I jumped on you like that, I think I forgot you were experienced with trains.

About the ERTMS, a colleague said that on that section there was no rail safety system and another colleague said there were problems with that corner for over 4 years (GTsail290, this is a reply on you too), and it was said that trains did have problems with that corner at 100km/h, so the speed limit was set at 80.

But if my colleague is right about there would be no safety system, it's still drivers error, but I do think they have to fix the issues. It is also just a few miles from entering the rail station... Two things come in to my mind now. Why is there no safety system just miles from entering a rail station? Did the driver knew where he was?

If he knew where he was then he probably found out he couldn't brake as you pointed out Shaun, hence the panicked phone call he was going to crash the train (if that is true). If he didn't knew where he was, and with a (working) safety system, this probably never happened...

Your offtopic story is almost a movie scenario! So all these years those trains driven while suffering from those problems? I don't know what would happen here... We are pretty hard on safety, or we would like to think. They were German you said.. I remember an ICE train losing it's axles, you should Google that if you haven't heard of it. Happened ~10 years ago. National Geographic did a docu on it.

We've had a lot of issues with our latest train, the FYRA. It was so disastrous, it killed our Highspeed part of the company. 👎 They were Italian, supposed to go 230. That wasn't enough, but they were a lot cheaper than the new ICE's, so we said: make that 250 and we have a deal.. And now we have a bunch of trains of too much million Euros that can't drive. Parts were hanging loose, parts also fell of while driving, the interior was badly made, everything was just bolted on, different every time. If it didn't fit correctly, they just made an extra screw hole. Also train got fire couple of times etc. The list is long and it surely isn't ready to go over 180. I'm happy we pulled it out of service... The company who makes them, AnsaldoBreda, is now suing us because we talk too bad about their trains and they should be fine... Except, Belgium refused their trains too. So I hope this train will not drive again in this kind of state.
Photo of the train.

And some pics of the problems.

And a couple of months ago this happened. There were supposed to be stuck together....