Sport mode, hate people keep brake testing...

[GOTMAXPOWER]

It's hard to know what is dirty driving without seeing video of it, brake testing on the exit sounds dirty but it could equally be a low skilled player who has carried too much speed into the corner and had to make a big adjustment, it could be somebody who has got on the power too hard and hit the brakes to save a spin. Without seeing it we're all guessing blind.

 

[sixty4half]

But is that what they're doing? Sometimes braking in a corner is done to bring the cars further back into play, and is a valid racing tactic. Take the final race of last year's F1 season as an example:

Later half of the race, Verstappen and Hamilton have both pitted resulting in race order being Verstappen 3rd, Hamilton 2nd and Perez 1st. Perez knows Hamilton is faster than he is, and he knows Verstappen is too far back to catch Hamilton on pace alone. What follows was Perez fighting Hamilton hard - one of the tactics Perez used was intentionally slowing right down on the apex. Perez knows that in that scenario Hamilton can't go wide around the outside as he's already committed to the apex, it'd just waste time to move out wide, so Perez slows, knowing that means Verstappen gets closer. He has Hamilton pinned. Perez controls both his pace and Hamilton's.

Now obviously Verstappen and Perez are teammates, and Perez wants to help Verstappen win the drivers championship, but it's an example of the tactic being used in real life. In online racing it's a valid tactic if you know that 2nd place has better pace than you - slow down long enough to pull 3rd into the battle and there's a good chance 2nd and 3rd will fight for 2nd, making it easier for you to hold onto 1st.

Racing isn't as simple as pointing the car and driving faster than everyone else to get into 1st place. There are a lot of tactical decisions to be made while racing, aggressive and defensive. It's on you to be aware of when people may drive defensive around you and when it's appropriate to drive on the offensive.

LOL

Brother, did you just waste your time typing up several paragraphs to compare the obvious dirty tactics we are talking about to a legitimate F1 TEAM strategy? There is nothing in GT7 compared to Perez holding up Hamilton so Ver Stappen can catch up to him because we dont have teams. There is no reason to force P2 to slow so P3 can catch him in GT7 unless you are just trying to mess up P2s race.

I think a better example is Vettle parking on the final corner during qualifying at Monaco when he was with Ferrari. He was penalized for that and lost his P1 position.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

When you have been following someone for several laps you know their braking points and lines.

I haven't seen any of this race.

To play devils advocate I've raced some people who are fine, hitting their marks every lap, but as soon as they come under any pressure they fall apart. They make one small mistake and compound it with another until it snowballs into them finishing with a flourish.

There is nothing in GT7 compared to Perez holding up Hamilton so Ver Stappen can catch up to him because we dont have teams

Unfortunately we have eSports teams, it's not dirty driving but still tedious when you're on the lonely end of a 2 on 1 at a drafting track like Le Mans.

 

[sixty4half]

Unfortunately we have eSports teams, it's not dirty driving but still tedious when you're on the lonely end of a 2 on 1 at a drafting track like Le Mans.

That's not supported in Sport Mode. There is nothing in game about it. In those lobbies it is not a legitimate strategy.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

There is no reason to force P2 to slow so P3 can catch him in GT7 unless you are just trying to mess up P2s race.

But that is a legitimate tactic. Although we don't have racing teams in Sport mode, we all know that two cars fighting for position will slow eachother down, so P1 can slow P2 enough to create a scenario where P2 and P3 fight, slowing eachother down.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Over slowing on the apex is a legitimate tactic and a part of defensive driving.
A response as "do it to me and see what happens" simply shows that it is you that's dirty in this situation. It reminds me of the guy that would punt no-stoppers because he thought it unfair that they won over him.

This is an old video, a couple of years at least. I got defensive, mostly because I thought he was bumping me and hassling me when I was in front.
Defensive driving is very much OK. [VIDEO]https://youtu.be/_tveggVpRJY[/VIDEO]

 

[Tekku]

I’m also finding lots of trouble when it comes to overtaking side by side. People don’t understand when it’s time to yield or how two cars have to travel in order to avoid an accident.

But you can’t blame anyone really because GT7 is barely a racing game. It makes no effort in telling anything noteworthy when it comes to proper racecraft.

 

[Nuschel01]

To play devils advocate I've raced some people who are fine, hitting their marks every lap, but as soon as they come under any pressure they fall apart. They make one small mistake and compound it with another until it snowballs into them finishing with a flourish.

Hello

 

[xMAXIx79]

You're really aggressive about this topic. Almost like you feel accused of something, which I can assure you was not my attempt.

Yes, I do have video evidence of this type of stuff happening. I keep replays of about half my races.

Ich bin seit Jahrzehnten rennen und habe die F1 seit Jahrzehnten beobachtet, 160; Sie predigen den Chor, bis zum Punkt, wo Sie beschuldig sind, ich verstehe nicht, wie Sie so defensiv sein können, wenn wir uns nur über Menschen beschweren, die die Lobbies, in denen wir uns uns befinden, ruinieren.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCVm3GICeJrJxP4mp7ItRm6g

Das hat ein paar Videos, die vielleicht das haben, was Sie suchen, und ich werde sie nicht für Sie, aber wenn es mir am Wochenende passiert, werde ich sicherstellen, dieses Rennen zu posten, schauen Sie den Gr4 Veyron auf dem Monza-Rennen, das hat viel schlechtes Verhalten von einem Haufen Menschen, wie ich nicht nur selbst folgen, um dieses Video zu verfolgen, auch das GT7 Penalty System aus dem finest-Video von vor zwei Wochen.

So I just watched the video with the orange Bugatti... be honest... I can't see anything there that can really be interpreted as malicious or anything like that. Did you drive that Bugatti there too? Or just like everyone else Atenza or something similar? Anyway, if YOU don't know what such a car can or can't do there, I would be very careful about claims.... I drove there with my M4... and it was completely different from the drivers with the Atenza.. ... where I could be fast with the M4, the Atenza got in my way.. and where the Atenza was fast, I got in their way with the BMW and you could pass me or stay close... I think with the Bugatti it was similar .... I saw enough points with the orange one where he left space next to himself....

 

[NikNakTobasco]

if I’m following someone and they brake 20 metres earlier than the normal braking point (no other traffic) it’s inevitable I’ll hit them and I’ll get a penalty. But in A/A+ lobbies I have an expectation they’ll be predictable with their braking points. Is that my fault? Maybe; but the alternative is to not have close racing.

 

[sixty4half]

So I just watched the video with the orange Bugatti... be honest... I can't see anything there that can really be interpreted as malicious or anything like that. Did you drive that Bugatti there too? Or just like everyone else Atenza or something similar? Anyway, if YOU don't know what such a car can or can't do there, I would be very careful about claims.... I drove there with my M4... and it was completely different from the drivers with the Atenza.. ... where I could be fast with the M4, the Atenza got in my way.. and where the Atenza was fast, I got in their way with the BMW and you could pass me or stay close... I think with the Bugatti it was similar .... I saw enough points with the orange one where he left space next to himself....

I am driving the orange Veyron. Watch till the last half of the final lap, I switch camera views so you can see my whole Livery and it very clearly shows my name. Thank you, I try to always drive that cleanly but sometimes I make mistakes.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I am driving the orange Veyron. Watch till the last half of the final lap, I switch camera views so you can see my whole Livery and it very clearly shows my name. Thank you, I try to always drive that cleanly but sometimes I make mistakes.

I only use the forum on my cell phone.... Then you can't see any names in the videos. 😉

 

[Imari]

That's not supported in Sport Mode. There is nothing in game about it. In those lobbies it is not a legitimate strategy.

I don't think you need explicit support in Sport Mode to have friends. That's something that simply exists regardless of developer support, and it's always a legitimate strategy.

if I’m following someone and they brake 20 metres earlier than the normal braking point (no other traffic) it’s inevitable I’ll hit them and I’ll get a penalty. But in A/A+ lobbies I have an expectation they’ll be predictable with their braking points. Is that my fault? Maybe; but the alternative is to not have close racing.

Not really, it's just to not follow right on someone's bumper until you've established whether they're consistent or not. Get yourself a little offset to the side well before the braking zones, you lose bugger all in draft and you gain a lot in potential safety and opportunity to shoot past if they do brake early.

If someone is braking 20 meters early, that should be an immediate passing opportunity. If you're hitting them, then you could have done a better job setting yourself up to take advantage of their poor driving. If people are doing this consistently and you're still hitting them, you're failing to learn how to improve your racecraft. It's not your fault that they're behaving the way they are, but it's your fault if you're refusing to adapt.

You can race close if you want, you just have to build some defence against unpredictability into your racecraft. Which should be assumed when you're racing against randos online anyway, there's so many entirely non-spiteful things that can happen from lag to controller issues to the cat catching fire that giving yourself an out if they do something dumb is always going to pay off.

To finish first, first you have to finish. Remember that reaction time to an unpredictable event is a couple of tenths of a second absolute minimum, and place yourself and your car in a position where you're not reliant on the other driver not doing something dumb. Assume they're going to do something dumb, and figure out how you're going to take advantage of it.

Online players will rarely disappoint you by not doing something dumb, so drive smarter, not harder. Rule 1 of racing online is that everyone else is a window licking moron with anger issues - and you should drive as if that's the case.

 

[sixty4half]

I don't think you need explicit support in Sport Mode to have friends. That's something that simply exists regardless of developer support, and it's always a legitimate strategy.

In every online gaming community I've ever been involved in it is generally frowned upon to play teams in single player lobbies.

 

[Imari]

In every online gaming community I've ever been involved in it is generally frowned upon to play teams in single player lobbies.

That's the community though. It's not part of Sport mode or the game in general. And gaming communities have all sorts of weird "rules" that aren't really rules but are just things that some people, usually players at the lower end of the skill spectrum, expect to be followed.

Given that GT7 doesn't have any sort of team play, if people want to try and play with their friends then they're going to be in with all the single player folks. They can choose how hard they want to race their friends, and that's completely legit. If they want to work together, the game allows it so it's a legitimate strategy.

You'll notice in game that some players will choose to work together with other players that they don't even know. See Super GT here talking about how early in the race he's looking to work with other players to try and pull away from the pack.



That's just being smart. If there's someone else in the race that you know, why wouldn't you work together to get both of you a better result? If you're playing to win then the point is to get the best result possible by any means allowed to you.

You may find this article written about the fighting game Street Fighter interesting. It addresses players who artificially limit their success by trying to adhere to rules that make it harder for them to win.

The whole book is actually a good read for anyone wanting to take competitive gaming seriously, although a lot of the later material is more focused on more traditional 1v1 competitive games like Street Fighter, Magic: The Gathering or Starcraft and you'll need to work a bit to adapt it to concepts relevant to Gran Turismo. Still, the beginner and intermediate material is applicable to all games, and really anyone trying to be competitive in a field.

 

[LSFDRX]

That's the community though. It's not part of Sport mode or the game in general. And gaming communities have all sorts of weird "rules" that aren't really rules but are just things that some people, usually players at the lower end of the skill spectrum, expect to be followed.

Given that GT7 doesn't have any sort of team play, if people want to try and play with their friends then they're going to be in with all the single player folks. They can choose how hard they want to race their friends, and that's completely legit. If they want to work together, the game allows it so it's a legitimate strategy.

You'll notice in game that some players will choose to work together with other players that they don't even know. See Super GT here talking about how early in the race he's looking to work with other players to try and pull away from the pack.



That's just being smart. If there's someone else in the race that you know, why wouldn't you work together to get both of you a better result? If you're playing to win then the point is to get the best result possible by any means allowed to you.

You may find this article written about the fighting game Street Fighter interesting. It addresses players who artificially limit their success by trying to adhere to rules that make it harder for them to win.

The whole book is actually a good read for anyone wanting to take competitive gaming seriously, although a lot of the later material is more focused on more traditional 1v1 competitive games like Street Fighter, Magic: The Gathering or Starcraft and you'll need to work a bit to adapt it to concepts relevant to Gran Turismo. Still, the beginner and intermediate material is applicable to all games, and really anyone trying to be competitive in a field.

I wouldn't say bump drafting is anything like "team strategy", but surely two capable and rational drivers know they will both benefit from the bump draft and in most circumstances it's a mutual benefit. It's a very temporary agreement between good drivers.

Once the two are once again on their own though, all friendly bets are off, and it's back to taking advantage of anything to get ahead.

 

[Imari]

I wouldn't say bump drafting is anything like "team strategy", but surely two capable and rational drivers know they will both benefit from the bump draft and in most circumstances it's a mutual benefit. It's a very temporary agreement between good drivers.

Once the two are once again on their own though, all friendly bets are off, and it's back to taking advantage of anything to get ahead.

That's how you're playing, but there's nothing at all that says that's mandatory. Bump drafting is the casual, spontaneous cousin to team strategy. It's a one night stand compared to a long term relationship, they're very different but they're also not entirely dissimilar.

And if bump drafting is good strategy, then a better strategy is to organise to make sure that you get a bump draft. If people want to work together "non-temporarily", then that is also an acceptable way to play.

This is just part of playing a game that is not purely 1v1 - social strategies exist and are not trivial. As they should be, the whole point of online is that you're playing against other humans which means social dynamics are in play. If you just want to go as fast as possible with no social interaction at all, AI or time trials are a better option.

Arguably the best part of competitive games at a high level, 1v1 or otherwise, is the social dynamics and interaction. When everyone is already highly skilled, it's another dimension in which to try and gain an advantage over your opponents.

 

[sixty4half]

I cant help but dismiss that entire wall of text with a good hearty laugh.

I just came here to complain about some morons doing stupid stuff

 

[Keef]

What regions and lobbies are you guys in where you're finding brake checking? That doesn't make any sense. Are you sure you're not experiencing netcode glitches that are creating contact?

 

[Angry racer]

It is so annoying that people do brake test just to shake you off at the next penalty point.

Played about 5 daily race C today, and got brake tested more than 15 times. Sportsmanship went from S to C... Dunno what PD will do to prevent people doing it.

Same as gtsport at start, cheaters cheating coz they are too slow to win fairly

Polyphonic will do nothing unless money is involved

 

[Junkman55]

We are all amateurs and there is 10 to 20 individuals driving online in a race. Some brake early some brake late in competition if you want to win you will figure it out. I think the dirty stuff we talk about sometimes is the excuses for not passing the driver in front.