Spring Rates & Suspension - very interesting research

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OK so no data,this sounds familiar,to conclude what you are saying,to see concrete evidence of something working, you need a template of exactly what you want tested,car,track,suspension,transmission settings, 4/5/6 speed,etc,etc,etc. To throw out random numbers is akin to hunting fish in a barrell. Soon enough you'll get your result.
 
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Maybe OP's linked thread contains too technical information for you, I'll try to do simpler version for you.
60/40/40 do a run on some particular corners, ie. Tsukuba would be easy to do similar laps.
60/50/50 same
60/60/60 same
20/60/20
25/55/15
Etc

Compare 60 init wheel spins during acceleration and braking, if my theory is right all those 60 init LSD's are giving identical wheel speed differences.

Other init lsd's under it will give similar/identical slipping when traction is lost, slipping will start bit differently because of different amount of initial, but total amount of lock will be same = tire slip/speed difference between right and left.
Since this is originally your theory that you want help with, and you are using the assistance of data that you are gathering from sinister, maybe it is time to turn this theory into a testing phase (maybe similar to how @DolHaus did for his tests on camber?).

I dislike the idea of having to leave GTP to read testing results for your theory, unless you had a way to collect all of it in one place. I prefer the idea of discussion happening on either a select thread, or a thread per site (just like me opening a tuning garage on NGU).
 
Maybe OP's linked thread contains too technical information for you, I'll try to do simpler version for you.
60/40/40 do a run on some particular corners, ie. Tsukuba would be easy to do similar laps.
60/50/50 same
60/60/60 same
20/60/20
25/55/15
Etc

Compare 60 init wheel spins during acceleration and braking, if my theory is right all those 60 init LSD's are giving identical wheel speed differences.

Other init lsd's under it will give similar/identical slipping when traction is lost, slipping will start bit differently because of different amount of initial, but total amount of lock will be same = tire slip/speed difference between right and left.
I will try this, but I'll add something to it, I'll try to get a reading from the wheel speed on the data logger, also to make sure that I'm not altering my driving I'll set it to a fix speed and use the driving line, I'll repeat every one 3 times to make sure no data is corrupted. This is what I expect it to do , the initial makes it less responsive as you put higher numbers, with 60/60/60 the wheels should be locked and will turn very close in speed to one another at the opposite they will be more free and turn at different speeds, this is not my theory but how a differential works from what I understood, so we'll see what the tests reveal. It will take some time for me to finish this, you know work, kids, wife, house but as soon as I get the data I will put it out for sure.

What OP are you talking about? If you mean the one that links to the other forum yes I've read it, but it was all theory, sorry, but I think that getting the wheel speed in numbers is how you would prove a point, one way or another. I'm not in a war with anyone, I just try to see how things work that's all, and I try use a method that can take out the drivers input as much as possible. Before assuming anyones competence or ability to seize information why not get to know them and see how they are :), you might be surprised. :cheers:
 
Just another question,would you care to elaborate on caster working now? I didn't think so.
Since this is originally your theory that you want help with, and you are using the assistance of data that you are gathering from sinister, maybe it is time to turn this theory into a testing phase (maybe similar to how @DolHaus did for his tests on camber?).

I dislike the idea of having to leave GTP to read testing results for your theory, unless you had a way to collect all of it in one place. I prefer the idea of discussion happening on either a select thread, or a thread per site (just like me opening a tuning garage on NGU).
Did we not already go over asking for data from someone already,back in the camber thread years ago? So I don't truly care what comes from this anyway. I will continue to tune my way and what works for me,having tried someone's terrible tune was like hitting my thumb with a hammer,it hurts.
 
Did we not already go over asking for data from someone already,back in the camber thread years ago? So I don't truly care what comes from this anyway. I will continue to tune my way and what works for me,having tried someone's terrible tune was like hitting my thumb with a hammer,it hurts.
Agreed to all of it. I have read the data for this LSD theory and it seems plausible, but as we both said, time for a template and testing to be done by anyone willing to, for anyone interested in these results.
 
I dislike the idea of having to leave GTP to read testing results for your theory, unless you had a way to collect all of it in one place. I prefer the idea of discussion happening on either a select thread, or a thread per site

Understand your point, asking help on that particular person sends me there, don't want to bring stuff from there to here, there is already some data backing up theory, but I need data from here, and going to get some data myself also, but as many others I have plenty of things on my life what goes before GT6. When I have time I'll pick some data out from game.

It will take some time for me to finish this, you know work, kids, wife, house but as soon as I get the data I will put it out for sure.

Same here..

sorry, but I think that getting the wheel speed in numbers is how you would prove a point, one way or another. I'm not in a war with anyone, I just try to see how things work that's all, and I try use a method that can take out the drivers input as much as possible. Before assuming anyones competence or ability to seize information why not get to know them and see how they are :), you might be surprised. :cheers:

Sorry if caused bad feelings, you probably see and understand why frustration is so easy here. :)

@CSLACR sure I'm biased, I believe it works like that, what else you can expect. Still able and willing to gather some data for backing it up.
Practical tests didn't spoil fine replicas, made by @Ridox2JZGTE, leaving his preload intact, divade his acceleration and braking values buy 0.6 and seeing his desired lock percentages then putting that value minus initial to same place and those cars run even better and hitted on real life pace times.
Ie. Ridox yellow bird has lock 20/48/24 what is targeting medium preload 80%-40% 1.5-way lock, that transfer on my theory to 20/60/20 and it works pretty well. As many other his replicas what I now have tested.
 
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Hey there is no hard feelings felt by me,if I rubbed you the wrong way,please accept my apologie. As a community,there has been constructive discussion based on data and theories. As most of us don't have access to code,then I guess we could be blind. But all in all there has been more help offered by most of the gentlemen here without profanity and name calling. Usually constructive discussion achieves results.
 
Hey there is no hard feelings felt by me,if I rubbed you the wrong way,please accept my apologie. As a community,there has been constructive discussion based on data and theories. As most of us don't have access to code,then I guess we could be blind. But all in all there has been more help offered by most of the gentlemen here without profanity and name calling. Usually constructive discussion achieves results.
Thats what I'm trying to do here, apology accepted.
I have no access to code, that's one of reasons why asked help outside.
Those tests with data altered values give just one confirmation, and those 60 init lock tests can give confirmation without data access to game.
 
How differently it goes if you change values to 60/40/40, will you notice any difference?
Its more for acceleration and deceleration,in a corner in my opinion, at 60 it decelerates the car faster when letting off the gas during drafting,meaning no braking as the engine tranny do the workand it accelerates faster out of corners with proper transmission settings. That's why there are so many different factors in camber and toe in NASCAR that do not translate to the general thoughts of some individuals, who seem to think different. It is completely utterly not even close to real world its stupid. Code or no code it's wrong. If someone has never driven NASCAR, in PRO rooms, well I can atest that the game defies logic in it's programming. If you would like the setup,I will gladly give you exactly what I drive,we can go in a room and I can show you the incompitance of PD's programming, it difies logic.
 
That's why I beg a certain individual to post his tune,so I can finally end it once and for all. As his caster camber toe theory will be blown out of the water.NASCAR,the idea is to get to the finish line first,period,certain people refuse to post setups because they know the programming is wrong,but continue to blow their horn about knowledge of tuning with camber toe when it does not work at Daytona. So I say it is wrong,I run low front high back so it isn't "glitch" tuning its terrible physics. I bet KW is shaking their head.
 
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Sorry if caused bad feelings, you probably see and understand why frustration is so easy here. :)
👍 (smileys= 1000 words):). I`m at work right now but when I get a chance I`ll give more details on the procedure that I will use, then if you see flaws in this we`ll figure out a way to do it properly. :cheers:
 
@killerjimbag I don't need setup, I know at GT6 is not perfect, there is several flaws. If I'm right your current 60/60/60 LSD is 60% closed while coasting, and 120% during acceleration and braking, but as we all know that 20% above 100% is meaningless and that fore my 60/40/40 should give exact same results.
Also thinking if PD calculates some fading during activating Accel or Decel and that over part can minimize it or something.. But hey that's why testing is needed.
 
@killerjimbag I don't need setup, I know at GT6 is not perfect, there is several flaws. If I'm right your current 60/60/60 LSD is 60% closed while coasting, and 120% during acceleration and braking, but as we all know that 20% above 100% is meaningless and that fore my 60/40/40 should give exact same results.
Also thinking if PD calculates some fading during activating Accel or Decel and that over part can minimize it or something.. But hey that's why testing is needed.
Well I'm not privy to code,nor would I have a clue or pretend I know what's going on. But go ask him to post his NASCAR setup,I can also give you a road course one if you wish. 60 60 60 is extremely dangerous on road courses. Oh and there is zero camber on both.
 
@killerjimbag I don't need setup, I know at GT6 is not perfect, there is several flaws. If I'm right your current 60/60/60 LSD is 60% closed while coasting, and 120% during acceleration and braking, but as we all know that 20% above 100% is meaningless and that fore my 60/40/40 should give exact same results.
Also thinking if PD calculates some fading during activating Accel or Decel and that over part can minimize it or something.. But hey that's why testing is needed.
I'm more to believe its locked, could be wrong,but it works,that's all that matters to me.
 
Understand your point, asking help on that particular person sends me there, don't want to bring stuff from there to here, there is already some data backing up theory, but I need data from here, and going to get some data myself also, but as many others I have plenty of things on my life what goes before GT6. When I have time I'll pick some data out from game.
I understand this, and that is kind of why I suggested possibly trying to gather the data from all locations to either one or 2 general locations. As with summing up the data from over there and then adding it to your notes over here, I think would be fine. Until this theory has a solid location to be discussed at, I do not want to clutter up a thread about suspension with LSD discussion.
 
As noted above, this is also supposed to be a suspension thread, not LSD. I believe we have an LSD thread already though.
@CSLACR sure I'm biased, I believe it works like that, what else you can expect. Still able and willing to gather some data for backing it up.
Practical tests didn't spoil fine replicas, made by @Ridox2JZGTE, leaving his preload intact, divade his acceleration and braking values buy 0.6 and seeing his desired lock percentages then putting that value minus initial to same place and those cars run even better and hitted on real life pace times.
Ie. Ridox yellow bird has lock 20/48/24 what is targeting medium preload 80%-40% 1.5-way lock, that transfer on my theory to 20/60/20 and it works pretty well. As many other his replicas what I now have tested.
You can "expect" to not cheat yourself, among others, by simply not letting your wishes for having some kind of "breakthrough" in a video game supersede reality.
The fact that you don't feel it's possible to test without bias, says a lot more about your own character than anything. Disturbing, to say the least.

And I'll ask you the same question I asked @Ridox2JZGTE then.

Lap times?
Yours?
Mine?
Ridox's?
Sinisters?
Obama's?
Kaz's?

Where on Earth would you get the idea that just because your lap times are matching the real world, that it's automatically realistic?
You do realize that if your lap times match, mine are "too fast to be real", meaning they don't match up. Oh my god it's back to unrealistic!
We all run different lap times, so by your logic, where lap times must be matched for realism, you'll need to change the whole tune to be "realistic" from driver to driver.
And that's why basing "realism" off lap times doesn't work. Ever.

Although like Ridox, I have to assume you've just decided "your lap times" to be the benchmark of realism?
I don't know, since I know the "lap times must match for realism" flaws, and how horribly incorrect that reasoning is, I generally dismiss everything said after someone says the great "lap times match"! argument.
 
Lap times?
Yours?
Mine?
Ridox's?
Sinisters?
Obama's?
Kaz's?

Where on Earth would you get the idea that just because your lap times are matching the real world, that it's automatically realistic?
You do realize that if your lap times match, mine are "too fast to be real", meaning they don't match up. Oh my god it's back to unrealistic!
We all run different lap times, so by your logic, where lap times must be matched for realism, you'll need to change the whole tune to be "realistic" from driver to driver.
And that's why basing "realism" off lap times doesn't work. Ever.

Although like Ridox, I have to assume you've just decided "your lap times" to be the benchmark of realism?
I don't know, since I know the "lap times must match for realism" flaws, and how horribly incorrect that reasoning is, I generally dismiss everything said after someone says the great "lap times match"! argument.
Not trying to argue, but to get the best comparison to real life, the driver would have to drive both the REAL car and the VIRTUAL car to "compare" lap times to real life, because yes, there is a difference in skill between drivers. I for example am amazed whenever someone reviews one of my tunes at the same track and I am, normally, a few seconds slower than the times they achieved.

I personally deal with GT6 as it is, a game with more realistic physics than, lets say, GTA, I believe my tuning reflects that.
 
So we can all come to some sort of agreement that this is a "video game" correct?
It's not real,the cars are like your model toy collection you had as a kid,now your changing the tires and painting them.
We can all agree PD did not do a good job in "replicating" "real world physics into the game?"
So someone replicates to the best of what they gather on the interweb and says this is my replica of whatever.
Are you/they %100 sure that its correct? Because we all know everything on the internet is real?
So I replicate what I think is correct,to get a better feel of what I think it should have been and I'm wrong?
My lap times are faster,but its not real?
It's a video game,broke as it may be,its not real world nor will it ever be.
So go about enjoying the game the way you want,I'm wrong your right,the sky is green and the grass is blue.:cheers:
 
Not trying to argue, but to get the best comparison to real life, the driver would have to drive both the REAL car and the VIRTUAL car to "compare" lap times to real life, because yes, there is a difference in skill between drivers. I for example am amazed whenever someone reviews one of my tunes at the same track and I am, normally, a few seconds slower than the times they achieved.

I personally deal with GT6 as it is, a game with more realistic physics than, lets say, GTA, I believe my tuning reflects that.
That implies that driving skill in GT6 equals driving skil IRL, which I don't agree with. I mean, obviously you can have a better understanding of whether or not the car has simliar behavior, but someone could be faster or better in the game or reality, without being better at both.
Maybe my laps times are 3 seconds faster in GT6, but yours would be 2 seconds faster in real life. ;)

So just imagine if you and I both drove a car and tried to match lap times for "realism".
 
That implies that driving skill in GT6 equals driving skil IRL, which I don't agree with. I mean, obviously you can have a better understanding of whether or not the car has simliar behavior, but someone could be faster or better in the game or reality, without being better at both.
Maybe my laps times are 3 seconds faster in GT6, but yours would be 2 seconds faster in real life. ;)

So just imagine if you and I both drove a car and tried to match lap times for "realism".
Wow,how many of you have drove a 3 speed standard,on the tree,standard steering and standard drum brakes?
Well that car in my avatar is exactly that,I can guarantee,with out a doubt, half of you couldn't even find first gear,let alone drive it without killing yourself.The car has been in my family for 45 years and every son learned on that big old boat.All 3 of us. All original except for tires,cam,exhaust and some minor suspension tweeks.
So in real world terms,your snookered.
Sorry Clascar should have put that all on it's own,not intended for you.
 
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@CSLACR pointing @Ridox2JZGTE replicas wasn't for making any other proof than it won't break well done setups, I personally felt them working superb after adapting my theory to LSD, not saying at those aren't working fine before it, those are just one piece of art, ridox gets my full respect for those extremely great replicas.

We can continue this LSD theory on different thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/limited-slip-differential-lsd-theory.326659/
I'm not busting on Ridox, I'm busting on the idea that anything in GT is any more or less realistic based off a single random person's lap times.
It's simply illogical, that's all.

:cheers: on the LSD theory thread.
 
Wow,how many of you have drove a 3 speed standard,on the tree,standard steering and standard drum brakes?
Well that car in my avatar is exactly that,I can guarantee,with out a doubt, half of you couldn't even find first gear,let alone drive it without killing yourself.The car has been in my family for 45 years and every son learned on that big old boat.All 3 of us. All original except for tires,cam,exhaust and some minor suspension tweeks.
So in real world terms,your snookered.
Sorry Clascar should have put that all on it's own,not intended for you.
Easy, first gear is right there! (points at the screen) No, I agree, if you haven't driven it before, you would probably be confused.
 
I'm not busting on Ridox, I'm busting on the idea that anything in GT is any more or less realistic based off a single random person's lap times.
It's simply illogical, that's all.

:cheers: on the LSD theory thread.
Whoa flashback,wrong LSD theory.:dunce:
 
Well I would like to join folks but I have a blown motherboard issue,time to pull out the bag of hammers and see what I can do.
 
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