STOCK CLUB - just getting going

JohnScoonsBeard

JohnScoonsBeard

2,884
United Kingdom
Near Reading, Uk
JohnSchoonsBeard
Hi all

I wasn't at the race last night but I wonder if someone can explain what went wrong?

I've started this thread as the original one was closed by Martin. Clearly he doesn't want to talk about it.

Just wondering as the idea in principle is a good one. We do some stock races in CRAP without problems and I was looking forward to taking part in this too when I could make it.
 
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No idea mate, Martin said he was going through the replays to see what went wrong and pm the parties involved.
 
Martin, if you are reading this, don't let a good idea go to waste. If you need help with some of the organising I'm sure a few of us could help. Sounds like there were a few "racing incidents" but they will always happen to a degree. Maybe driving standards will improve. You put a fair bit of work into the organising which sounds like it was on the right path so don't give up just yet.
 
I second that!

I wasn't there either, but I'm so looking forward to participating!
Please don't close a good thing because of "teething" trouble. I promise, I'LL behave!
 
WARNING: Epic Post! ;)


Post served it's purpose, so have now removed it.
 
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I have to say turning on microphones does help communicate what you want much better and try and sort out incidents on track. Just have voice quality set to very low.

Could the document be reworded so it is essentially just a few bullet points? Minimising the words might maximise impact.

If people are coming from open lobbies and haven't taken part in something clean races it takes time to get use to it. Giving some slack at the start and trying to educate the heathens can help.
 
JohnScoonsBeard
I have to say turning on microphones does help communicate what you want much better and try and sort out incidents on track. Just have voice quality set to very low.

Could the document be reworded so it is essentially just a few bullet points? Minimising the words might maximise impact.

If people are coming from open lobbies and haven't taken part in something clean races it takes time to get use to it. Giving some slack at the start and trying to educate the heathens can help.
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Mics take up bandwidth & contribute to lag, so I always turn them off. It also makes it less realistic with them on, as real race drivers don't talk to each other when racing. One of the SSCS slogans was; "Less Chat, More Race!" I personally hate mics as they're always breaking up, & half the time I can't understand what people are saying anyway. 16 people chatting away when I'm trying to drive cleanly is a huge distraction to me, it's fun in casual online lobbies for some, but not at a serious event imo.

The posts are as concise as I could make them without compromising on necessary content, it took me all week to get them down to what they are. If people don't have the patience to read through them, then they wouldn't sign up, right? That way it filters out the impatient! ;) SSCS used bullet points, but there was a lot of them, so I tried to condense them into the SCR which are in sets of 3 & no longer then 3 lines when GT Planet is set to wide.

Heathens :lol:! That's a bit harsh, but I know where you're coming from. As it says in About Stock Club in the OP, the event is for "experienced" drivers. I guess the majority of people just like to have fun races in GT5 & are not that interested the serious side of things, maybe that's why SSCS never had full grids.
 
Oh god, from what I'm reading, I'm glad I wasn't able to join you that night... I feel sad that you closed the Stock Club. Finally an opportunity to do proper racing (as it's hard to find without joining clubs). Maybe, VBR, you might think again about reopening... :)

And about the "experienced drivers" part, I don't know if I can call myself one :D. I have played simulators since I was 7, always trying to improve my driving and getting higher on leaderboards and I do some occasional karting IRL (not professional, just for fun).
 
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all microphones should be off in a racing game, wtf is there to talk about?? yeah we like cars, lets talk about it in the forum, ffs. wanna say something?? connect a damn usb keyboard.

i dont even own a headset. why the fcuk would i need one? i play gt5 and gta series not some ****ing gun fanatic crap.

all of the rules that the Stock Club runner and executive thought out are fine with me and should be requested. i haven''t had the chance to race with You guys yet because times keep changing and i'm usually not on the forum very often.

but if there would be something like a great group of guys respecting these rules the Stock Club has, and we would have a great private lobby (someone who is willing to drink the coffee and invite us too :)!) then im sure we could get a nice race going each night of the week because when one isnt available three other people are and so on.

i think that would work for starters, the nightly racing which is not a long thought out series or something that take splace 3 1/2 weeks from now.idk, just my thoughts, just people getting to know each other with diff. races each day or each every other day (by that, i mean night except weekends).

thats my 2 cents. ;)
 
VBR
WARNING: Epic Post! ;)
....snip....
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I didn't particpate in the thread but was keeping an eye on it and planning to attend some races. The car/tire combinations appealed to me and the idea of a group being run under the umbrella of [post=4888688]VBR's Good Racecraft Guide[/post] appealed to me, especially since I it's in the OP of my very own racing group and it's the set of rules I did all my own racing by, even before I read them as written by VBR. The squeaky clean style of racing is about all I am interested in these days and I have zero tolerance for anyone that feels contact is a necessary aspect of racing.

I hope you sort out your personal stuff VBR and revive your group. It's a worthy effort, even if only from the standpoint of proving that exciting racing can be had, while being exceptionally clean and respectful at the same time:tup:
 
i remember vividly one night i was an hour late to the race cause i fell asleep watching SNL reruns and i wanted to join the race and just watch as you guys battle it out but when i checked the thread i had no idea who was the one hosting the race (lounge) so i had no way to know who to friend i.e. enter the room if just to watch the race which can be very fun :)
 
Ouch, it's really sad to see this series like this.

I'm still interested, I personally think we should try again. :)
 
I'd be up for trying again,my first couple of races went ok though I did see quite a bit of corner cutting and a couple of unsafe re-entries.

I'm sure that could all be ironed out though and we could enjoy some close,clean racing.
 
As I got kicked after the first race (because of my wifi being pretty laggy with 16 racers on track) I missed out on most of the controversy. But I still think this is really promising, I read all the rules ahead of the race and was excited by such a high standard of racing.

I'm not really sure if my skill level is really up there to be able to drive that cleanly all the time (indicated by me spinning in the porsche curves) so it might not be a series for me. But it's still a really appealing series and I would hate for it to die.
 
Hi all.

I was really looking forward to the event as stock racing is almost all the racing I do.

I'm not a fast driver but I take pride in being a clean driver.

The other day seemed like everyone was trying to prove something and that led to a lot of bumps and things I'm sure VBR didn't want to see.

If the club is to be brought to life again I would really like to participate, if real life allows.

All I really want is good clean races and I act the same fighting for first or last position.

Best regards,
Miguel
 
I'd still be interested. But if you're now requiring a wired connection (which I fully understand) to join if you do decide to restart the series, then I won't be able to participate unfortunately.

Even if I can't join, then I still feel like you should try again. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are decent racers here. And judging from all the replies in this thread, it sounds like there is still a lot of interest. 👍
 
I'm sorry to read that you had a bad experience that night. From my point of view I had a great time, those Mini's at Rome was the best racing I've had for ages. I hope there's more to come.
The races were not free from incidents, but I think that we will improve and make sure to keep a better distance to each other. All incidents can never go away, as long as people race cars there will be crashes now and then. As long as people follow the rules and guides I think it's acceptable though.

One thing that might help is to keep a score. If you know that crashing might ruin your race, and a ruined race will devastate your score, then I think people will play it safer. It's better to finish 6th than 16th, risk-taking will be more careful. If there's no score and all races are one-off events, then every race is a fight for 1st; there's no long term goal to aim for and we will see more risk-taking I think.

Phouchg
I'm not really sure if my skill level is really up there to be able to drive that cleanly all the time (indicated by me spinning in the porsche curves) so it might not be a series for me. But it's still a really appealing series and I would hate for it to die.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, you can stay in the back with me :)
Judging from the races that night it seems like the skill levels is varying, even if you're not amongst the top fastest drivers there's still plenty of battles to be fought. In the Mini race I mentioned, me and two others were fighting for I think 9th place or something like that, it was great. So all the good racing does not happen in the top, there's plenty of fun in the back too.

I hope your internet connection gets better so you can stay!
 
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Well VBR we had a very successful rum with SSCS series, there were hardly any incidents of note and there was some truly great racing as a result. I don't think we should give up after one night. I made some mistakes myself, It was me who got bumped at the second chicane and went straight back on to the racing line which is something I hate people doing so why I did myself I will never know. There were a few drivers who didn't seem to get that it was gentlemen racing and were dive bombing down the inside every chance they got. We just need to get a good set of drivers again and it should be epic.
 
eran0004
Don't worry, you can stay in the back with me :)
Judging from the races that night it seems like the skill levels is varying, even if you're not amongst the top fastest drivers there's still plenty of battles to be fought. In the Mini race I mentioned, me and two others were fighting for I think 9th place or something like that, it was great. So all the good racing does not happen in the top, there's plenty of fun in the back too.

I hope your internet connection gets better so you can stay!
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Meant that I don't fit in because I spin too often and miss my braking points while following people.. but if it get started up again i'll give it a shot, should be able to control myself if i just set my mind to it.

and yes my connection, it is wired now so shouldn't be any problem.. i hope.
 
I was not in attendance and don't believe I've ever raced with most of the people involved but I can lend some insight I have gained in my nearly two years of experience as a "race director" here on GTP. I've run into several of the problems you encountered, some I've found ways to work around, some I haven't.

First, it seems like the more rules you try to make the less people want to pay attention to them. The more you expect from them, the more you'll be disappointed, unfortunately. I've always tried to keep things simple, not expect too much from the members, and let the game handle as much as possible and that seems to have worked well. (We've also been doing "tuning prohibited" racing for quite a while with mostly positive results).

Heavy damage, it's been my experience that it usually hurts the victim as much or more than the offender. Best to leave it on medium, not as big a penalty to the offender but at least the victim's race is less likely to be ruined. Yeah, it's not as realistic but most people aren't professionally trained drivers with years of experience behind the wheel either.

Try using a private lounge instead, i.e. create a PSN ID: Stock Club and only "proven clean racers" will get added to the friends list. You could have tryouts in public rooms and only send invites to the people who prove to be clean and courteous. Also, if someone becomes a problem you can kick them off the friends list so they can't race anymore. An added benefit, all the members only have to send one FR to one ID, but they can then race with all the members without needing a steward and not having to worry about Randoms.

Limit the number of people in the room to 13 or 14. If you get 15 or 16 people in a room you're almost guaranteed to have lag, PD has even admitted to such. I've found 12-13 to really be the useable limit, once 14 people are on the track cars start to shimmy and shake.

Hopefully Stock Club will get another go, this was the first event and maybe people were just too excited to finally race together and their eagerness got the better of them. Sometimes it takes a few races for a group to get familiar with each other and find their groove. There is a wide spectrum of skill level even on a forum dedicated to the game, 100% contact free racing is almost impossible to create but forming a solid group of drivers who are dedicated to being serious and gentlemanly is definitely possible with a little work.

:cheers:
 
Echoing everything Brandon said

Regarding mic's my suggestion for that is so incidents can be sorted out on track
Eg
"Did I hit you there when overtaking."

"No it's ok, carry on"

Also a bit of banter between races is nice. Ask people to keep in race chatter to incident sorting.

If they are set to very low they don't take up much bandwidth. Race quality settings make a big difference. Using the minimum setting for that will minimise lag from those with slower connections.
 
Everyone doesn't have a microphone though, so I think it's better to have the sorting out done after the race. Otherwise some would have to type during the race to reply to someone who asked something from a mic. Sometimes there's also a lot of background noise from mics, people talking in the background, engine noise leaking through the mic, music etc.

I also think that if you hit someone hard enough to deserve a penalty, you're probably aware of that yourself and can take your penalty without having to ask someone about it. Apologies can wait until after the race.

That's my opinion, but if the majority thinks it's better with mics on, then I'll accept that too.
 
My experience of mics is that i can only hear about 20 % of what people are saying. Some people have a loud and clear voice but most just disappear in the other sounds of the game. This have been a problem when instructions are given in mics only and me and several other miss that important information causing more problems.

In other words, I agree with eran and cote.
 
I´m still interested but me can only make this series on Sundays.
During the week it may be a bit too late due to getting up early for the job :D

Well I obviously couldn´t make it back then, but I think I´m a very clean driver (with some random incidents here and there) maybe not the fastest but I try :D
I did shuffleing in open lobbies before I signed up on GTP => I no the stuff you get there all the time.
But a few rule-brakers are always at the beginning of a Series (you sort them out during pre-season testing or on the first event) but the majority will apply to them Rules.

So if it takes part on Sundays I´m in !!
 
I'd also prefer mic's off. The more people in a room the more chance that having mic's on, even on low quality, will cause lag issues. Best not take the chance with PD/Sony being what it is. A USB keyboard is nearly free these days and not hard to find if you need one.

In any series there are growing pains when you are racing with drivers you are unfamiliar with. The biggest problem I've experienced with Race Director's is an unwillingness to simply hold people accountable for their actions and weak penalties. In a short series for example of just a few race dates, it makes no sense to have a system that goes like this: Oh golly he didn't mean that, oops racing incident, guess I have to give him a warning, warning, warning, inconsequential penalty, small penalty...etc. You can screw up virtually every race and not have it affect your points or ability to participate.

I think at this point, 2 years into the title, most drivers have either learned how to race with others or they have not and the time for allowing people significant leeway in mistakes is past. Sure some drivers are new and if they identify themselves as such you can make allowances, but for those of whom who should know better or who just can't abide by VBR's Guide or GTP Rules, they need to be jettisoned as quickly as possible. If you don't, you run the risk of losing those drivers that follow the rules to the letter and those are the guys you want racing.

You may end up with smaller fields this way but at least everyone will be proven clean and respectful and when small incidents do occur, you can be confident they were as a result of driver error and not be wondering all the time if they were intentional.
 
I understand your points Johnny, but we had a CRAP recruitment night last night and the room was full (16) for about 3 hours with Mic's on with about half using them. Mostly quiet in race and we had good driving in most races. Just a couple of wayward berties but it was an open lobby.

Race quality was the lowest it can be and mics were on very low voice quality. It can work and that was with drivers from mainland Europe, North America, Japan, Australia, UK. It can be done

Agree entirely about jettisoning people who are intentionally cheating.
 
Thanks again for starting this thread John, & thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate your contributions. I shall have a serious re-think & get back to you all soon.


:)
 
JohnScoonsBeard
I understand your points Johnny, but we had a CRAP recruitment night last night and the room was full (16) for about 3 hours with Mic's on with about half using them. Mostly quiet in race and we had good driving in most races. Just a couple of wayward berties but it was an open lobby.

Race quality was the lowest it can be and mics were on very low voice quality. It can work and that was with drivers from mainland Europe, North America, Japan, Australia, UK. It can be done

Agree entirely about jettisoning people who are intentionally cheating.
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A lot of it depends on the PD/Sony servers and the hosts connection. For a couple of weeks there until today actually, it seemed to me everything was slow. I tried to go into my own lounge a few times and on the first attempt it wouldn't load so I had to reboot and then it would let me in. Today it loaded up as fast as ever. If everything is working well on their end I suspect you can do anything and it'll be ok.

VBR
Thanks again for starting this thread John, & thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate your contributions. I shall have a serious re-think & get back to you all soon.
:)
Click to expand...

That's good to hear VBR. Looks like you have a lot of support here and a lot of drivers that feel the same way as you do. 👍👍
 
I too was disappointed it ended so quickly. I like getting together with people at a specific time and place. Especially with so many people. I do race a lot of shuffle/stock anyway but I like organized clubs like this. I hope we'll be able to come up with a solution and give it another go, in some form.

I also side with the 'no mics' people, and I agree with the suggestion about 'light' and not 'heavy' damage, at least for the introductory phases of the club.
 
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