- 1,335
- WA
- TEAM-SWD-daus26
Greetings guys (I'm assuming its all guys here. Sorry if there are girls...). I go to this forum very few times, but after reading for about an hour or so today, this community portion of GT5 does not seem as unite as I'd hope it would be when I registered here. Below I want to talk about some controversy that I think we need to settle on. I can't explain everything at once so I prefer everyone to read all my points before replying. Also note that all this is my honest response based on my experiences.
Drift Trial vs. Online Drift
Before anything, I like to think I'm hardcore on both aspects of this, so I know very well how these goes. Each one have its ups and down, but to straight things out, they both require skill, period.
My opinion is that Drift Trial require more long hours of training and concentration, even as much as TTs. Before any of you jumpship, let me explain.
One of the main difference between DT and Online Drifting/Tandem is that DTs require you to be in a much more specified line. If, even by a little, your car goes off the line where the points run, you'll lose plenty. I find myself worrying a bunch whether or not I can stay on the line after weight shifting to the next turn. This might also (maybe) create the feeling that DTs appear to be in slow motion. Worrying about lines and the angle, I think is enough to challenge some drifters.
In contrast, online drifting, you don't have to worry about very specified lines at all. In my experience with online tandems with drifters (and some or many from here), people can be all over the place. With no lines to worry about, it will seem faster. As long as you don't go out the track, we're good, right? However, you do have to worry about making contact with others. That is another thing I find challenging about tandems. But overall, I really think DTs are harder. Of course there are prefered lines to drift in online tandems, but they are not as restricted as the DTs. And by hard in DTs, I mean getting into top rank and comparing to the likes of XnekoX, Stepmania, or TEAM_REV-LIMIT-7.
I'm willing to bet that any top ten drifters can tandem online, but not all online drifters can get in top ten. Also, a lot of us can get a car in a track, drift, record, and look good (I've seen many youtube videos of these). The difference between each of us is when the info. screen shows up the score the person is recieving on their DT replay. If you turn it off, its hard to distinct which person is better, but the score can be very big in difference.
With that said, I could not care less if great online drifters can't be as sufficient in a DT. The two are very different things and should be respected either way. I have this theory that there are more (not all) of those who learn drifting through online drifting have a harder time transitioning to DTs, than those who learn through DTs and transitioning to online tandems.
Tire Selection
I see many here think that DT people add a more gripper tire on front to get more angle, thus more points (example: N3/N1). While logically, it makes sense, I don't think its the real reason why. The thing is, people drift differently, and the cars handle differently. The reality is that putting grippier tires on front only makes the car more loose in the rear, not necessarily more angle when drifting. When we actually start drifting, the angle gain from the added front grip is minimal, if not, not at all. People put such combination in regards to the car's characteristics, and their style of drifting. For example, for FWDs, the car would obviously need a drastic difference in tire grip from front to back. People don't put the combination of different tires to gain more points or angle, but because the car and the driver needs it so to suit his/her style. Another example is that online drifters even put tire combination such as N3/N2. Did he/she do that to get more angle online?...I doubt it. It's probably because its comfortable to the person. Last but not least, you'll even see a high score being done in N1/N2 fashion. Did this person want less angle on the drift? No...but because it suits him/her.
Also remember that, the grippier the tires, the less the car actually drifts (meaning less revolution per second on the spinning axis). After running only a hundred or so hours on DTs... I've noticed that there is a big difference in points recieve in which you spin the axle with the throttle pressed, as to letting go of the gas. Obviously stepping on the gas creates more points on the lines. The scoring seem to also depend on the revolution per second on the spinning wheel. Perhaps this is why N1 is a common sight in DTs. It gives maxiumum rps to the wheels.
Scoring System - Speed/Angle/Line
The speed thing is a very common complaint I see.
A lot of people say drift points should be more about speed n relates that to D1. I don't know why, but in D1 speed is not as much as a factor as people think. Its based on two things: Style and Execution. In GT5P's case: the execution on drifting on specified lines. People say its too slow, but I doubt they can stay on a line as well, with faster grippier tires as they could with slower, less grippier tires. What's the use of speed if you have to slow down and brake so you can stay on the line?
Another important factor I think some are not aware of here is the unavoidable angle/speed ratio. Speed and angle are very dependent on each other. The more speed, the lesser the angle can be achieved, n vice versa. For example, the angle/speed ratio for a corner with "x" car is 67 degrees at 51 mph. For either one to be gain, one must be sacrificed. That is why when we straightened our cars after we drift, the speed drastically increases. So if some of you think DTs should be much more about speed, then you're avoiding the angle portion of the scoring system GT5p scores on.
In short, the point system in the DT is fine to me as it really depends on the line, speed, and angle. It's not perfect, but more reasonable than flaws.
Wheel vs. Controller
I see some here base their opinion on a drifter's skill by their peripheral. More commonly, the controller being less skilled and easier. As a wheel user myself, I find the controller to be harder, and to many controller users, the wheel is harder. When I broke my pedals, I was forced to learn the controller myself. The big difference is that the analog stick doesn't automatically react to oversteer/understeer, so for that I respect the controller people who have mastered it to a high degree. The point is, either way, whether a person uses a controller or wheel to drift, evaluation on how skilled a person is shouldn't be judged by any of that.
Conclusion
We all obviously have differences in how we think, but if we want to call ourselves drifters, then there should be less complaints, and instead, learn to adapt to the different things GT5 offers in drifting whether it'd be online or DT. Stepmania is truly an epitome of how drivers should be...racing/DT/TT/online tandems. I doubt he/she complained as much.
With GT5 coming around, I hope we can be a big happy family.
What we should never do is criticize on anything that is not to our liking in the world of GT5 drifting. No more of the noobs stuff too.
More importantly, I would just like for both worlds to come to an agreement or at least get along.
Thanks,
daus
Drift Trial vs. Online Drift
Before anything, I like to think I'm hardcore on both aspects of this, so I know very well how these goes. Each one have its ups and down, but to straight things out, they both require skill, period.
My opinion is that Drift Trial require more long hours of training and concentration, even as much as TTs. Before any of you jumpship, let me explain.
One of the main difference between DT and Online Drifting/Tandem is that DTs require you to be in a much more specified line. If, even by a little, your car goes off the line where the points run, you'll lose plenty. I find myself worrying a bunch whether or not I can stay on the line after weight shifting to the next turn. This might also (maybe) create the feeling that DTs appear to be in slow motion. Worrying about lines and the angle, I think is enough to challenge some drifters.
In contrast, online drifting, you don't have to worry about very specified lines at all. In my experience with online tandems with drifters (and some or many from here), people can be all over the place. With no lines to worry about, it will seem faster. As long as you don't go out the track, we're good, right? However, you do have to worry about making contact with others. That is another thing I find challenging about tandems. But overall, I really think DTs are harder. Of course there are prefered lines to drift in online tandems, but they are not as restricted as the DTs. And by hard in DTs, I mean getting into top rank and comparing to the likes of XnekoX, Stepmania, or TEAM_REV-LIMIT-7.
I'm willing to bet that any top ten drifters can tandem online, but not all online drifters can get in top ten. Also, a lot of us can get a car in a track, drift, record, and look good (I've seen many youtube videos of these). The difference between each of us is when the info. screen shows up the score the person is recieving on their DT replay. If you turn it off, its hard to distinct which person is better, but the score can be very big in difference.
With that said, I could not care less if great online drifters can't be as sufficient in a DT. The two are very different things and should be respected either way. I have this theory that there are more (not all) of those who learn drifting through online drifting have a harder time transitioning to DTs, than those who learn through DTs and transitioning to online tandems.
Tire Selection
I see many here think that DT people add a more gripper tire on front to get more angle, thus more points (example: N3/N1). While logically, it makes sense, I don't think its the real reason why. The thing is, people drift differently, and the cars handle differently. The reality is that putting grippier tires on front only makes the car more loose in the rear, not necessarily more angle when drifting. When we actually start drifting, the angle gain from the added front grip is minimal, if not, not at all. People put such combination in regards to the car's characteristics, and their style of drifting. For example, for FWDs, the car would obviously need a drastic difference in tire grip from front to back. People don't put the combination of different tires to gain more points or angle, but because the car and the driver needs it so to suit his/her style. Another example is that online drifters even put tire combination such as N3/N2. Did he/she do that to get more angle online?...I doubt it. It's probably because its comfortable to the person. Last but not least, you'll even see a high score being done in N1/N2 fashion. Did this person want less angle on the drift? No...but because it suits him/her.
Also remember that, the grippier the tires, the less the car actually drifts (meaning less revolution per second on the spinning axis). After running only a hundred or so hours on DTs... I've noticed that there is a big difference in points recieve in which you spin the axle with the throttle pressed, as to letting go of the gas. Obviously stepping on the gas creates more points on the lines. The scoring seem to also depend on the revolution per second on the spinning wheel. Perhaps this is why N1 is a common sight in DTs. It gives maxiumum rps to the wheels.
Scoring System - Speed/Angle/Line
The speed thing is a very common complaint I see.
A lot of people say drift points should be more about speed n relates that to D1. I don't know why, but in D1 speed is not as much as a factor as people think. Its based on two things: Style and Execution. In GT5P's case: the execution on drifting on specified lines. People say its too slow, but I doubt they can stay on a line as well, with faster grippier tires as they could with slower, less grippier tires. What's the use of speed if you have to slow down and brake so you can stay on the line?
Another important factor I think some are not aware of here is the unavoidable angle/speed ratio. Speed and angle are very dependent on each other. The more speed, the lesser the angle can be achieved, n vice versa. For example, the angle/speed ratio for a corner with "x" car is 67 degrees at 51 mph. For either one to be gain, one must be sacrificed. That is why when we straightened our cars after we drift, the speed drastically increases. So if some of you think DTs should be much more about speed, then you're avoiding the angle portion of the scoring system GT5p scores on.
In short, the point system in the DT is fine to me as it really depends on the line, speed, and angle. It's not perfect, but more reasonable than flaws.
Wheel vs. Controller
I see some here base their opinion on a drifter's skill by their peripheral. More commonly, the controller being less skilled and easier. As a wheel user myself, I find the controller to be harder, and to many controller users, the wheel is harder. When I broke my pedals, I was forced to learn the controller myself. The big difference is that the analog stick doesn't automatically react to oversteer/understeer, so for that I respect the controller people who have mastered it to a high degree. The point is, either way, whether a person uses a controller or wheel to drift, evaluation on how skilled a person is shouldn't be judged by any of that.
Conclusion
We all obviously have differences in how we think, but if we want to call ourselves drifters, then there should be less complaints, and instead, learn to adapt to the different things GT5 offers in drifting whether it'd be online or DT. Stepmania is truly an epitome of how drivers should be...racing/DT/TT/online tandems. I doubt he/she complained as much.
With GT5 coming around, I hope we can be a big happy family.
What we should never do is criticize on anything that is not to our liking in the world of GT5 drifting. No more of the noobs stuff too.More importantly, I would just like for both worlds to come to an agreement or at least get along.
Thanks,
daus
Last edited:
But I'm agreeing to the top one.
). However, I just got to add is that when you do a DT, there's a major problem, which is, if you mess up 1 section, that driver is always restarting the entire event. In online tandem, there's no "retry" button, and you always have that in the back of your mind because you don't want an entire pack of 8 other drifters waiting for you, simply because you weren't concentrated. 
