Street Cars Lap Times (Nordschleife)

  • Thread starter Yassi_99
  • 294 comments
  • 53,221 views
@SjefGielen Thanks for your help. At this point I really don't regret implementing other member's times :-D
A lot of fun to share each others passion. I just didn't have the patience to test these ultra slow cars even though they are extremely cool and iconic.
 
Yassi_99
@SjefGielen Thanks for your help. At this point I really don't regret implementing other member's times :-D
A lot of fun to share each others passion. I just didn't have the patience to test these ultra slow cars even though they are extremely cool and iconic.
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You're very welcome, great work you did so far, I'm going to use your times as a target! I'm not a fast driver, not very slow either, but surely not very fast, I'm usually one second per minute per lap slower than the top 10 leader boards. I'm going to use these laptime sheets as a reference for creating fun N-class lobbies allowing three or four cars. I'm even thinking about adding a BoP lap for each car in there, but that would create a lot of additional effort.
 
SjefGielen
You're very welcome, great work you did so far, I'm going to use your times as a target! I'm not a fast driver, not very slow either, but surely not very fast, I'm usually one second per minute per lap slower than the top 10 leader boards. I'm going to use these laptime sheets as a reference for creating fun N-class lobbies allowing three or four cars. I'm even thinking about adding a BoP lap for each car in there, but that would create a lot of additional effort.
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The closest N-Class recording to the sheet would be N300. This would make up for some really nice races. Just remember that some cars shine under certain circumstances (eg. Alpine A110 on smaller tracks...). Nevertheless the times should give quite a good feeling for their overall speed. I wonder if PD does the same to set their BoPs :-)

PS to everyone: Feel free to add me on PSN:

yassi_99

We could do some relaxed laps cruising
 
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Yassi_99
The closest N-Class recording to the sheet would be N300. This would make up for some really nice races. Just remember that some cars shine under certain circumstances (eg. Alpine A110 on smaller tracks...). Nevertheless the times should give quite a good feeling for their overall speed. I wonder if PD does the same to set their BoPs :-)

PS to everyone: Feel free to add me on PSN:

yassi_99

We could do some relaxed laps cruising
Click to expand...
I'll add you tonight!
Add me, my PSN is Puppy71, it will change once Sony activates the ability to change your PSN name, I'm hoping I'll be able to something we see in racing broadcasts like S.Gielen or even Sjef.Gielen, will be great to see more people in GTS with their real names.
Anyway, if you're up to it, we could do a couple of laps with the VW 1200 together, we only have to make sure that driving together doesn't affect our laptimes, so no slipstream effect and not to much overtaking, will be great fun to do some of these tests together.
Is it possible to do time trial in lobbies so we can also see session optimal laptimes like we see in Arcade Timetrial?
 
@Yassi_99 @Alex p. @SjefGielen How many laps you guys usually take in one session? Do you push it long just to shave that 0.1 second on a turn or you just take 5-6 laps and call it a day?

Me personally, i take from 6-7 to 10-12 laps, depending on a car. Some cars take less laps to see what they're made of, and you can quite quickly deduce what the perfect time would be.
 
OJT6627
@Yassi_99 @Alex p. @SjefGielen How many laps you guys usually take in one session? Do you push it long just to shave that 0.1 second on a turn or you just take 5-6 laps and call it a day?

Me personally, i take from 6-7 to 10-12 laps, depending on a car. Some cars take less laps to see what they're made of, and you can quite quickly deduce what the perfect time would be.
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Actually, I only started this last night, I was home late after a business diner so didn't have a lot of time. I drove 3 laps with the Fiat and was quite confident that I wouldn't shave off more time than the difference between my lap record and my optimal laptime, so I stopped trying.
I only did one lap with the Sambabus because it really was time to go to bed, I have to get up at 6AM to go to work so midnight was already late for me. I will however try a few more laps in the future when I feel like it.
I plan to do 3 to 5 laps with the really slow and under-powered cars, but I think for the faster ones I will use the same approach I use for qualification sessions: run a few laps to get the flow of the circuit and the feel of the car, after that I push for at least 3-5 laps, sometimes more, for these sessions I will quit at the point that my optimal lap-time stops dropping, in qualification I do 5-10 laps at race pace to find that optimal flow to produce safe and fast laps, again, for these sessions that's not necessary since we're looking for the optimal lap-times to determine overall car performance.
So yes, these will be pretty long sessions, but now that the 500F is done I don't expect a dull moment, that VW 1200 can be quite a handful when pushed to it's limits, that rear end really likes to try and overtake the front end in twisty parts, got to love that :cheers:
 
OJT6627
@Yassi_99 @Alex p. @SjefGielen How many laps you guys usually take in one session? Do you push it long just to shave that 0.1 second on a turn or you just take 5-6 laps and call it a day?

Me personally, i take from 6-7 to 10-12 laps, depending on a car. Some cars take less laps to see what they're made of, and you can quite quickly deduce what the perfect time would be.
Click to expand...

It really depends on the car. Everything from 5-25 laps is possible.
 
RTD Racing
If PD adds the S-Type we can do a Jeremy Clarkson:D

There must be a car with similar handling to set at 207 hp and try the Ring in less than 10 minutes.

Also... The Volkswagen Sambabus could act as a 'Ford Transit' of sorts (with full extra weight to get it closer to Kerb Weight 1600 kg of a real transit and no ABS :lol:).



Edited: The actual van used in Top Gear was this one
for those who don't know what I'm talking about see the original challenge here

136 hp and 1600 kg makes it a weight to power ratio of 0.085
To make the Sambabus equivalent it would have to go with maximum weight and 110 hp, I don't think it will admit that much (maximum is 100 hp I think, I don't have the PS4 in front of me now)

But hey, I propose this if anyone is interested:

Sambabus with sport hard tires, maximum weight and maximum power (no other tuning allowed). Nordschleife layout, under 10 minutes. And upload video please.
Click to expand...

My Sambabus setup:

Comfort Hard tyres
Power maxed out, Weight on 107%. That way i get the 0.085 power-to-weight ratio
Suspension, Brake Balance and Differential all Stock
Custom Gearbox, Top Speed 160 km/h
Stock Gearbox has way too low top end and only has 4 gears (Transit had 6 gears IIRC)

DualShock 4, Countersteer Assist set on Weak

And the time is... 9:54,601 from Bridge to Gantry on first try

Honestly, it was way too easy and full lap under 10 minutes will be simply impossible

Anyone up for the challenge?
 
Damn you guys are really pushing this thread :) I really like the development hahaha

I am usually doing 2-3 clean laps (if I also count the dirty sections, it adds up to around 4-5 laps).

Yeah I will update the Mark IV lap

@SjefGielen Sorry for not accepting your invitation today but I had some business to settle in Rainbow Six with a sh***y friend of mine :D
 
I did a few laps with the Copen last night, resulting in a 10:20.625. That car feels like it is flying after the VW1200, which I got round in 1:28.482 (opt)
But after two laps in the S660, I think I really need to practice a bit more with these cars, my lap is about 18.5 seconds slower than yours, 10:03.510, so I need to find and shave off those seconds, do you have a replay of your lap? I think the copen can do beter also, nog as fast as the Honda since it is FF, but it should be closer.

@OJT: we are running stock cars for this test, no tuning at all, but I might do Some tuning and accept your challenge sometime. Well done on your sub-ten lap though 👍 even Sabine didn’t manage that in the Transit.

[EDIT]Okay, in my evening run I manager to get a few seconds of the S660 time, still a Perth big gap to your time, but I got a nice chunk of of my personal best, I’m now at 9:58.237 with na optimal of 9:56.731 so that’s only 12 seconds to go to beat your time. But since the S660 is allready on the list 8 will move on to the Honda Beat to get a new car on the list, same power aan weight as the 660 but a Munch older car so I’m not expecting sub 10 minute time.
 
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nfsp2kTW

-No driving aids (except ABS-LOW )
-Car setup is Default (BoP N300)
-Sport Hard tires
-Driven with T500RS + TH8A
*If the support PSVR , the game experience will be more nearly perfect.
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I wish I had your setup :D
Looks so much more fun with a wheel. Perhaps I should consider getting one too. Do you recommend the T500RS?
 
Yassi_99
I wish I had your setup :D
Looks so much more fun with a wheel. Perhaps I should consider getting one too. Do you recommend the T500RS?
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It's really exciting :D

My previous steering wheel was GTFP, which was a huge upgrade,
but I didn't use the other steering wheel, so I couldn't comment.
Product positioning should be: T300 <= T500 < TGT
I think T500rs can meet most of the users,
I like it the T3P-PRO pedal can use Suspended position (GT-style)，
Also Authentic sequential gearshift levers, attached to the base (so they don’t move with the wheel)
 
New times:
Before I post the times, I would like to bring something forth: I saw that some of you are driving with steering assist or whatever it's called on "light/little". While I think it is okay, it definatly gives a big time advantage. I drive without it completely. But then again, I am using a wheel and theoretically you are faster with a wheel. Nonetheless, I think it would be "better", if none of us used that driving aid. What do you guys think?

Also, while I think it is cool that some are testing racing cars on SH tyres, and like that we can compare them better to street cars (which this thread was originally about), I really think race cars should be testet on RH tyres, because they were simply biult for it. Don't get me wrong, I love that so many a participating by now, but we should agree on these things collectivly I think. One more idea concerning this: We could allow race cars being tested an SH and RH types, but that should be noted/clarified on the spread sheet then. Means only more work for @Yassi_99 :P What do you guys think?

Other than that, I have to say again, that it's really cool that so many times are being posted, with or without driving aids, and with or without RH tyres. 👍

BMW M3 '07: 07.47.626
The only thing this car is missing is speed (especially acceleration). Other than that, it's perfect. It's just unbelievable how a RWD car can be so stable and when this thing grips, it GRIPS. I also looooove its looks. Bought it in the dark silver/grey and at cloudy conditions on the Norschleife it just looks sublime!
Audi R8 '07: 07.40.463
I absolutely LOVED this car in GT5. It DESTROYED cars with similar HP. In GTS it does that not quite so effortlesly, but still quite much. It's suuuuper stable but just like the M3, it really does lack speed. Not that I would consider those cars slow relative to their HP, but they aren't really speedy either.
 
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@Alex p.
I can understand that race cars should be driven with race tires but the lap time of the Zonda R for example shows that the SH tire is a little too slow but the RH tire way too fast to match the real world times. Therefore I am not sure if the RH one is too realistic for race cars. That's why I don't want to test Gr.1/2/3/4 cars as they don't fit the street car theme. Of course some of the tested Gr.X cars don't fit either but I was curious which tires would be the most realistic ones to use.

Zonda R would need SM tires to match its real life racing tires.

The LaFerrari on the other hand is perfectly fine with its SH tires as it performed just like its rival - the Porsche 918 which was able to pull of a 6:58,xxx IRL.
Older cars like the Diablo GT on the other hand are waaaay too fast compared to their real laps so they should be driven with CH or CM tires (someone please test that :]).

Tire quality changed and will change in the future so it only seems fair to stick with only one compound. In the end we want to compare the cars not the tires
 
Once you get everything figured out I'm going to be interested in this as I've always enjoyed street cars over race cars in GT. I also enjoy driving them completely stock with no assist but ABS on a controller (DS4) and automatic transmission.
 
Yassi_99
@Alex p.
I can understand that race cars should be driven with race tires but the lap time of the Zonda R for example shows that the SH tire is a little too slow but the RH tire way too fast to match the real world times. Therefore I am not sure if the RH one is too realistic for race cars. That's why I don't want to test Gr.1/2/3/4 cars as they don't fit the street car theme. Of course some of the tested Gr.X cars don't fit either but I was curious which tires would be the most realistic ones to use.

Zonda R would need SM tires to match its real life racing tires.

The LaFerrari on the other hand is perfectly fine with its SH tires as it performed just like its rival - the Porsche 918 which was able to pull of a 6:58,xxx IRL.
Older cars like the Diablo GT on the other hand are waaaay too fast compared to their real laps so they should be driven with CH or CM tires (someone please test that :]).

Tire quality changed and will change in the future so it only seems fair to stick with only one compound. In the end we want to compare the cars not the tires
Click to expand...

Hm yeah ok I get it. The following I would like to propose still: REAL race cars (no matter how old - like the old Ferrari and Ford or Gr.4, 3 cars etc.) should be testet all on RH tyres. Cars, where it is "debatable" if they are full on race cars (like the Zonda R or the X cars) should all be tested on SH tyres. I wont be mad if all cars (including real race cars) will be tested an SH tyres though.

By the way: Should this light driving aid (stability - countersteer - whatever it is) be allowed?
 
Alex p.
Hm yeah ok I get it. The following I would like to propose still: REAL race cars (no matter how old - like the old Ferrari and Ford or Gr.4, 3 cars etc.) should be testet all on RH tyres. Cars, where it is "debatable" if they are full on race cars (like the Zonda R or the X cars) should all be tested on SH tyres. I wont be mad if all cars (including real race cars) will be tested an SH tyres though.

By the way: Should this light driving aid (stability - countersteer - whatever it is) be allowed?
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Of course you can test race cars with RH tires but they won't be included in this spreadsheet. I don't mind others to use countersteer assist because I don't think you gain an advantage out of it. I never tested it so I may be wrong. TCS of course should be off (even though it slows you down) as it hinders the cars characteristic to shine through.
 
I did a few sessions last night and this afternoon:

Honda Beat: 10:16,262
Mini Cooper S 1965: 10:21,654
Abarth 1500 Biposto Bertone B.A.T. 1: 10:16,225
Suzuki Swift Sport: 9:19,457

My Mazda Roadster time is again, far of of your record: 9:06,481
My MR and FR skills really need some more practice, my personal best was almost 10 seconds slower than my optimal lap time, I just couldn’t get that perfect clean lap in, my times in the Roadster are getting lower so My skills are increasing but there is still a lot to improve.

The Abarth is really nice to drive, it could do with a better gearbox and faster shifts but other than that, it is nice and stable.
I ordered a H shifter today, that will also help a lot in getting my lap times down.

[EDIT] Did a few laps in the Alpine A110 72 today, man that thing is a handful, it really doesn’t like braking or fast accelerating while steering, spend a lot of time doing 360s.
But I managed to do a couple of good sectors and even one accident free lap, resulting in a 9:07.425 personal best with an optimal lap time of 8:58.815

I am 100% sure that more talented drivers can get it round much faster, for me its potential is clear, it is the fastest N100 car around the track, I just want to move on to the N100 cars for now. Once my H shifter arrives I will definitely revisit a couple of N100 cars, because a lot of seconds can be won by getting rid of the 2-3 second shift times the standard wheel gives.

Mary Christmas to you all!:cheers:
 
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Audi R8 4.2 FSI R tronic (N400) - 7:39,016

Wonderful car! Extremely easy to drive while being very fast. Well, it isn't M4 or 997 fast but it feels awesome. Strong handling, superb traction and nice sound. It has the whole package. The newer R8 would be nice in the game :-)
 
KTM X-Bow R (N300) - 7:28,490

That's not a car anymore. It is a mix of a gokart and a crossbow as its name indicates lmao
I can't believe what this little boi is able to pull off. It can keep up with cars double the power (and weight O_o). Most of the cars I have driven before were nice to drive but this beast is in another freaking galaxy. The way you can use its tail to powerslide through corners is top-notch. No wonder it can be considered OP in N300 and N200 races. Nevertheless, because of the short wheelbase the car can get pretty nervous if you don't know what you are doing. If you are not able to catch oversteers you shouldn't even bother touching this car without driving aids as it might overwhelm you.
 
Peugeot.RCZ GT line 8:59,688
Alfa Romeo Mito Sport 9:01,002

Driving the N200 cars is a breeze after the sometimes painstakinly underpowered N100s, both cars are very predictable, the Pug felt a bit numb and to be honest quite dull, the Alfa was, well, being an Alfa much more alive and fun. It felt much quicker where it actually was a little bit slower, I think with some more practice and driving it a little more on its limit it can beat the Pug.

All the practice is starting to work for me now, best laps are within 2-3 seconds from optimal now already after only 3 or 4 laps.

Next up is the Toyota 2000 GT, another classic, tail happy , rascal. That won’t will probably take a lot of laps to push out that one accident free and consistent lap, should be fun considering the runs in the other classics.
 
This is my best attempt with the N300 Impreza:

Subaru WRX Sti '14 (N300)
Stock settings, no tuning
Stock Sport Hard tires
TC 0, ABS default
Manual gears
T500 RS
08:17.051



And Alex P managed to go around the Ring in 8 minutes flat, kudos :bowdown:
I don't know where to get 17(!) more seconds though...
 
zuperkiwi
This is my best attempt with the N300 Impreza:

Subaru WRX Sti '14 (N300)
Stock settings, no tuning
Stock Sport Hard tires
TC 0, ABS default
Manual gears
T500 RS
08:17.051



And Alex P managed to go around the Ring in 8 minutes flat, kudos :bowdown:
I don't know where to get 17(!) more seconds though...
Click to expand...

Gonna upload the replay of it by the end of January.
By the way: there are several guys (including @Yassi_99) being faster than me. Mostly in the higher specced cars though.
 

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