Surprised by PD

[Outspacer]

It's amusing to see the "whiners and moaners" claiming responsibility for successfully forcing PD to change tack and include a more extensive offline campaign. After all, before the game was even launched and any Amazon reviews could be posted, Kaz announced these updates would be appearing.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt-sport-updates-will-bring-offline-events/

(Dated October 13th)

That's a week before launch, while people are already playing the demo. And as the GTP post says: "Over the last few months, fans have become increasingly concerned about the scope of the game’s offline portion". Key being that the whining and moaning has been intensifying the more people found out about the game, for quite some time before release.

Why are a bunch of people finding it so hard to believe this is a u-turn?

I have effectively said that I think it was a bad business decision to focus so much on the online - in the "estimate sales" thread, I guess. I doubt that got noticed by PD, but they might have checked the poll results - they do read here. I don't feel it's a victory for those of us who want to see PD & GT do well, because I think the damage to the brand has been done (with all those Amazon reviews etc).

Oh well, back to Sport mode and battling for my usual 7th place, lol

 

[Rautz]

My thoughts on the whole announcement. Apart from street fighter selling poorly, none of these are fact,

Street fighter v sold poorly as esport focussed title.
SIE and PoDi took notice of this.
The last delay was to work on GT league.
GTSport didn't sell as well as they hoped and used Black Friday as a way to cut price but not undermine the value of ip like other titles that get a massive price cut after one month after release.
GT league was meant to be revealed as a December 23 patch at PSX to help pull on nostalgia strings when celebrating the upcoming 20th anniversary but announced early to help drive Black Friday price cut sales.

Doesn't matter what I think above though cos I still love what I've been playing so far and the roadmap to March makes me even happier.

 

[GTP_Remo]

Does any dev of any game ever put out a fully finished game anymore since PS3? Ease of internet access for updates.

No. It only gets worse over time.

 

[FUNanywhere]

My thoughts on the whole announcement. Apart from street fighter selling poorly, none of these are fact,

Street fighter v sold poorly as esport focussed title.
SIE and PoDi took notice of this.
The last delay was to work on GT league.
GTSport didn't sell as well as they hoped and used Black Friday as a way to cut price but not undermine the value of ip like other titles that get a massive price cut after one month after release.
GT league was meant to be revealed as a December 23 patch at PSX to help pull on nostalgia strings when celebrating the upcoming 20th anniversary but announced early to help drive Black Friday price cut sales.

Doesn't matter what I think above though cos I still love what I've been playing so far and the roadmap to March makes me even happier.

This so much this.

 

[GTP_Monkey]

As the tweet suggests, it is a Damage Control update. The Outcry on Amazon, Meta,etc is huge and they had to do something coz Holiday Season is a time where people buy games.

GT Brand is clearly hit by this negativity and most importantly the Sales. 50% off already is a sign of huge decline for a game of this Magnitude.

So Glad that they added this quick to brush off all this negativity. Now when people buy the game, they would realise that Sport Mode is GOLD and SP is not that important.

And its 50% off in the Playstation store at moment.

 

[MeanElf]

...Game is 50% off already.

Wouldn't releasing a month later brought more revenue?

That's due the the various Black Friday offers as far as I can see - not a permanent price shift.

 

[Scaff]

That's due the the various Black Friday offers as far as I can see - not a permanent price shift.

It varies.

Amazon in the UK had already dropped it to £34 before the Black Friday offers, its currently £19!

In comparison FM7 is £25, PC2 £40, FH3 £20, F1 2017 £45 and WRC7 £32.

 

[MeanElf]

It varies.

Amazon in the UK had already dropped it to £34 before the Black Friday offers, its currently £19!

In comparison FM7 is £25, PC2 £40, FH3 £20, F1 2017 £45 and WRC7 £32.

Indeed, there will be a variety of prices available and some stores push other offers out there for a period (I used to work at Sainsbury's) hoping to balance a higher number of sales against a small profit-loss. The major reason for the big drop though still appears to be (again, as far as I can see) due to Black Friday and not as a few seem to be suggesting, due to a lack of interest.

I'll be happy to apologise if this continues after Tuesday though.

 

[Scaff]

Indeed, there will be a variety of prices available and some stores push other offers out there for a period (I used to work at Sainsbury's) hoping to balance a higher number of sales against a small profit-loss. The major reason for the big drop though still appears to be (again, as far as I can see) due to Black Friday and not as a few seem to be suggesting, due to a lack of interest.

I'll be happy to apologise if this continues after Tuesday though.

I think the first price drop (to £34) was down to an attempt to push out stock, with the £19 one part of Black Friday and a potential answer to the PSN price drop as well.

The interesting thing will be if either the price stays low and/or sales don't pick up markedly, as the aggressive price, bundles and update news should see a surge.

 

[SHGTP]

It is great for owners but damage done, i don't know any game where updates and additional content saved it and did anything for the game's long term. A Game is what it launches as. Hope they learned well for GT7.

Which is completely incorrect. More so than ever in this day and age.

Currently Rainbow Six Siege is one of the biggest games in the world after being considered a relative flop at launch. That's been down to regular content drops and listening to community feedback. In fact the biggest game of all, GTAV, launched without it's online component, yet now, almost 5yrs later, is as big as ever. Again down to regular DLC and delivering on community requests.

GT Sport is perfectly structured to add more content, be it cars, tracks or events. There is no need for more than one GT per generation, so long as the community is supported, revenue is generated from DLC, and the title gathers momentum.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It varies.

Amazon in the UK had already dropped it to £34 before the Black Friday offers, its currently £19!

In comparison FM7 is £25, PC2 £40, FH3 £20, F1 2017 £45 and WRC7 £32.

I noticed that the GTS Collector's Edition is still £104.99 in UK so happy to have got that version.

I had a quick look on Amazon after seeing this post and saw FM7 disc version for £24.49. Digital standard version £49.99, £39.99 for Deluxe and Ultimate Digital Version for £44.99 so ended up buying the Ultimate version. I wasn't thinking about buying the game but at that price, I thought I might as well have something big to download on my PC and Xbox even though I'm running out of space and will finally own majority of the recent big racing games: GTS, PC2, Trackmania Turbo, FH3, FM7 and F12017.

 

[MeanElf]

Indeed @Scaff that is pretty much my take on it too.

Don't forget Driveclub @SHGTP and @Huzar that game grew massively precisely because of regular updates, content and community-led improvements.

Dying Light whilst successful throughout is putting ten free DLC updates out in the next twelve months, not a new game and getting stronger.

 

[Deadheadbill]

Which is completely incorrect. More so than ever in this day and age.

Currently Rainbow Six Siege is one of the biggest games in the world after being considered a relative flop at launch. That's been down to regular content drops and listening to community feedback. In fact the biggest game of all, GTAV, launched without it's online component, yet now, almost 5yrs later, is as big as ever. Again down to regular DLC and delivering on community requests.

GT Sport is perfectly structured to add more content, be it cars, tracks or events. There is no need for more than one GT per generation, so long as the community is supported, revenue is generated from DLC, and the title gathers momentum.

Exactly, games as a service of which Rainbow 6 is one of the biggest and GT Sport is joining the ranks of continually refine and add to there product based on user feedback etc. The announcement yesterday was a textbook example of this methodology.

 

[Huzar]

Which is completely incorrect. More so than ever in this day and age.

Currently Rainbow Six Siege is one of the biggest games in the world after being considered a relative flop at launch. That's been down to regular content drops and listening to community feedback. In fact the biggest game of all, GTAV, launched without it's online component, yet now, almost 5yrs later, is as big as ever. Again down to regular DLC and delivering on community requests.

GT Sport is perfectly structured to add more content, be it cars, tracks or events. There is no need for more than one GT per generation, so long as the community is supported, revenue is generated from DLC, and the title gathers momentum.

GTA and Gtsport have Nothing in common. You are grasping at straws to defend GTsport having to bring up GTA all all things a game which has NO comparison correlation or rival in gaming whatsoever. And GTA after 4 years costs more than a barely month old GTSport. So realistically GTA in its 4th year will bring in more revenue from game sales then GTsport will. Talk about comparing mega success to a failure.

Wanna know the best correlation in gaming you can make to GTsport, its Street fighter5 and you know it.

- Both releases lacking content and focusing on online and esports with later adding on what was expected day 1. NOT GTA5 lol.

And Rainbow six is still a flop, but bargin bin steam pricing helped and kudos on Ubi for supporting it long term.

Indeed @Scaff that is pretty much my take on it too.

Don't forget Driveclub @SHGTP and @Huzar that game grew massively precisely because of regular updates, content and community-led improvements.

Dying Light whilst successful throughout is putting ten free DLC updates out in the next twelve months, not a new game and getting stronger.

Driveclub was such a flop its developer was shut down, what do you think DC actually proves and whose argument it's strengthens by bringing it up?

Dying light was a really good game well accepted by the gaming community at launch, it sold great also. It was a stunning success for a new ip, even taking 1st in sale sin US.

 

[MeanElf]

...Driveclub was such a flop its developer was shut down, what do you think DC actually proves and whose argument it's strengthens by bringing it up?

Dying light was a really good game well accepted by the gaming community at launch, it sold great also. It was a stunning success for a new ip, even taking 1st in sale sin US.

Care to explain why you think Driveclub was a flop? Your comment otherwise sounds like a subjective observation. The game has had a strong presence here on GTP throughout with more people joining in as the flow of updates, free tracks, improvements and vehicle DLC continued. It went from a shaky start, true but built in sales (Sony drove the low price offers, which didn't help some people's perception of the game - it would have made more money if they'd stuck to a normal price-reduction arc) and it was a very big surprise when Sony shut Evolution Studios down - same as with Studio Liverpool.

Don't believe me? Go have a look at the threads we have here. As to which stance this strengthens, I'd have thought that was obvious by the fact you responded against the point I made.

 

[Huzar]

Care to explain why you think Driveclub was a flop? Your comment otherwise sounds like a subjective observation. The game has had a strong presence here on GTP throughout with more people joining in as the flow of updates, free tracks, improvements and vehicle DLC continued. It went from a shaky start, true but built in sales (Sony drove the low price offers, which didn't some people's perception of the game - it would have made more money if they'd stuck to a normal price-reduction arc) and it was a very big surprise when Sony shut Evolution Studios down - same as with Studio Liverpool.

Don't believe me? Go have a look at the threads we have here. As to which stance this strengthens, I'd have thought that was obvious by the fact you responded against the point I made.

Clearly you strengthen my point by bringing up a game that flopped so hard it got its developer shut down. A game that follower a strategy some of you are arguing GTsport is and should be following a "service".

DC sold a bit above two million from what i've seen, that very low for a developer that been working on the game since 2012.

I don't think it was a flop. It was a commercial flop, sales were so low it warranted the Studios shut down. Sony drove the prices down out of necessity, to give the game a chance. None are buying a 50/60 dollar broken game. I was there on day one i know. They just really screwed up and the game never picked up enough for them to survive.

It's not a big surprise, both studios were selling very low. Since the Original Motorstorm Ev studios games have been selling less and less. And liverpool studios were near irrelevant sales wise. Sony doesn't shut down devs on a whim, it's always preceded by all time low sales same as with Zipper and Socom confrontation. And unlike most publisher Sony has quite the tolerance for low sales.

 

[Unknown?]

Indeed, there will be a variety of prices available and some stores push other offers out there for a period (I used to work at Sainsbury's) hoping to balance a higher number of sales against a small profit-loss. The major reason for the big drop though still appears to be (again, as far as I can see) due to Black Friday and not as a few seem to be suggesting, due to a lack of interest.

I'll be happy to apologise if this continues after Tuesday though.

Yeah I mean one of the biggest games this year, Destiny 2 is under half the original price and that isn’t due to poor sells. I think it’s just part of the promotion.

 

[Deadheadbill]

Yeah I mean one of the biggest games this year, Destiny 2 is under half the original price and that isn’t due to poor sells. I think it’s just part of the promotion.

Project Cars 2 and F1 2017 are both 25 bucks at Target today. Both of them are racing games and neither one could be considered flops.

 

[MeanElf]

Clearly you strengthen my point by bringing up a game that flopped so hard it got its developer shut down. A game that follower a strategy some of you are arguing GTsport is and should be following a "service"...

Of all the games I've played, both driving and otherwise, Driveclub is the one about which I have the most knowledge. Your own observations in this respect appear to be culled from little more than web snippets. It's okay if you don't like the game but I really do feel you either aren't being fair to my comparison and it's validity or are oversimplifying what I said to make your point more valid.

I see you are in disagreement with a few others here already and I'm sensing a pattern - but unfortunately I have no time or energy to try and convince you further, so I'll bid you adieu.

 

[Huzar]

Of all the games I've played, both driving and otherwise, Driveclub is the one about which I have the most knowledge. Your own observations in this respect appear to be culled from little more than web snippets. It's okay if you don't like the game but I really do feel you either aren't being fair to my comparison and it's validity or are oversimplifying what I said to make your point more valid.

I see you are in disagreement with a few others here already and I'm sensing a pattern - but unfortunately I have no time or energy to try and convince you further, so I'll bid you adieu.

That really means nothing at all. Quite the subjective and meaningless statement especially given you owned up you don't have it in you to make arguments no more.

Now you're making stuff up since you know well now your argument is weak and iv taken care of it already. I liked DC ONCE it actually worked, and after the rain update. But personal opinions one way or the other don't change the fact it was a flop, and you've got no counter argument for this.

Lots on here seen desperate to defend and argue positively for GTsport. I just happen to have no loyalties what so ever to a product, if it sucks it sucks if it's mediocre it's mediocre if its great its great PS xbox PC i couldn't care less.

 

[MeanElf]

That really means nothing at all. Quite the subjective and meaningless statement especially given you owned up you don't have it in you to make arguments no more.

Now you're making stuff up since you know well now your argument is weak and iv taken care of it already. I liked DC ONCE it actually worked, and after the rain update. But personal opinions one way or the other don't change the fact it was a flop, and you've got no counter argument for this.

Lots on here seen desperate to defend and argue positively for GTsport. I just happen to have no loyalties what so ever to a product, if it sucks it sucks if it's mediocre it's mediocre if its great its great PS xbox PC i couldn't care less.

Claiming subjectivity to negate a point made - and then defend your own with a subjective stance?

I actually didn't own up to what you think, there again that could be partly my fault as I was tired at the time, quite ill and was due to leave for a weekend away (sans laptop) so had no further energy to explain further.

I think you missed the point of the Driveclub reference. Regardless of Evolution's eventual fate, it did well, better than the 2 million sales cited at around the year one mark. The fact of its projected path, with updates, more and chunkier often than GT5 or 6 but they were a part of the planned progression and helped improve the game no end. You mentioned the dynamic weather update, that was just one of them. I was merely tagging the game onto the previous points.

 

[invetedevo]

If GTS was perfect fron launch what would you people have to complain about? This forum would die.....

 

[7HO]

The outcry happened long before the release and I remember them saying this stuff would be in this game before it was released and I was pleasantly surprised when it wasn't. So at this point I'd guess it was a reaction to early backlash and either they just didn't have it ready for release or decided to delay it a little so Sport mode could establish itself. There's another option I can imagine, perhaps they wanted to see if the community would love the game as it is enough to not require adding this.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Now that we have this info on the latest update which brings a lot more content which should have been there from start.

Mind boggling question is:

Why didn't they delay for 1.5 months and Release with this. Avoid the backlash. Avoid the negative feedback. Avoid less sales.

Game is 50% off already.

Wouldn't releasing a month later brought more revenue?

Whats the point of this. Can't understand this from PD and Sony.

It took them four years to get a half-game out on the PS4, they could ill afford to wait any longer.

 

[Huzar]

Claiming subjectivity to negate a point made - and then defend your own with a subjective stance?

I actually didn't own up to what you think, there again that could be partly my fault as I was tired at the time, quite ill and was due to leave for a weekend away (sans laptop) so had no further energy to explain further.

I think you missed the point of the Driveclub reference. Regardless of Evolution's eventual fate, it did well, better than the 2 million sales cited at around the year one mark. The fact of its projected path, with updates, more and chunkier often than GT5 or 6 but they were a part of the planned progression and helped improve the game no end. You mentioned the dynamic weather update, that was just one of them. I was merely tagging the game onto the previous points.

What's subjective? DC is such a flop that got its developer canned. It's a failure, a flop a commercial loss. Nothing subjective about that. Sony doesn't shut down successful profitable developers.

It didn't do well, it was a broken mess and sold medicore after the initial rush and hype quickly died. Was given life support with the PS plus deal and bargain bin pricing but even the sales are inflated with the Free PS plus version that was out for months.

+++2 million for a AAA title is not doing well, this isn't PS1 gen anymore.

 

[MeanElf]

What's subjective? DC is such a flop that got its developer canned. It's a failure, a flop a commercial loss. Nothing subjective about that. Sony doesn't shut down successful profitable developers.

It didn't do well, it was a broken mess and sold medicore after the initial rush and hype quickly died. Was given life support with the PS plus deal and bargain bin pricing but even the sales are inflated with the Free PS plus version that was out for months.

+++2 million for a AAA title is not doing well, this isn't PS1 gen anymore.

The subjectivity you were using to defend your point was about GT Sport. Now it's being compounded by more subjectivity about Driveclub.

The latter was only a mess if you felt it was - plenty of folks on here stuck with it and enjoyed the game more with each update. The sales figures of 2 million were before the PS+ https://www.dualshockers.com/driveclub-clears-2-million-in-sales/ and I think you may have missed a GT Planet news item about how pretty much all driving games around then not having sold as much as would normally be expected.

 

[LAVAMAN_82]

Driving is NOT for everyone... That right there is the problem.

It boils down to greed... They want to please everyone so they can sell more. In the end they have pleased no one! It's too sim-like for the kids and it's too arcade-like for the petrolheads. What I can say for sure, this game is a bad joke and it is the final nail in the coffin for Gran Turismo / PD / deluded Japanese guy. This is the final GT game, I'll bet my house on it!

 

[Huzar]

The subjectivity you were using to defend your point was about GT Sport. Now it's being compounded by more subjectivity about Driveclub.

The latter was only a mess if you felt it was - plenty of folks on here stuck with it and enjoyed the game more with each update. The sales figures of 2 million were before the PS+ https://www.dualshockers.com/driveclub-clears-2-million-in-sales/ and I think you may have missed a GT Planet news item about how pretty much all driving games around then not having sold as much as would normally be expected.

No subjectivity, DC is a flop. What is so hard for you to understand ? Those are still low sales, given the quick price drops it received. It was on discount day one with PS plus. You me or anyone else enjoying it is irrelevant to the fact it was a flop.

Gtplanet news is more bias than most with their aim to defend Gt and make any excuses for it they can, i've tried discussing it with the writers on here. They are apt at spinning things to defend GT and avoiding all facts to the contrary.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

No subjectivity, DC is a flop. What is so hard for you to understand ? Those are still low sales, given the quick price drops it received. It was on discount day one with PS plus. You me or anyone else enjoying it is irrelevant to the fact it was a flop.

Such a flop that Evo was asked to do a spin-off VR game.

Did Driveclub balance the beancounter sheets? It seems unlikely — as has been mentioned, if it had, Sony wouldn't have shuttered Evo. Was it a "flop"? Not by the traditional definition of the word. Maybe you're using a new one.

Gtplanet news is more bias than most with their aim to defend Gt and make any excuses for it they can, i've tried discussing it with the writers on here. They are apt at spinning things to defend GT and avoiding all facts to the contrary.

Some days, it's so hard for me to figure out which company I'm apparently shilling for.

You don't use "facts", you use emotionally-charged, subjective terms. You've done it for quite a long time here, actually.

 

[Huzar]

Some days, it's so hard for me to figure out which company I'm apparently shilling for.

You don't use "facts", you use emotionally-charged, subjective terms. You've done it for quite a long time here, actually.

Didn't mean you, but the writers clearly have an agenda. Especially one i had a discussion with onhere that avoid all facts and numbers.

least i'm better then the writers lol.

Such a flop that Evo was asked to do a spin-off VR game.

Did Driveclub balance the beancounter sheets? It seems unlikely — as has been mentioned, if it had, Sony wouldn't have shuttered Evo. Was it a "flop"? Not by the traditional definition of the word. Maybe you're using a new one.
.

Did sony have any other choice? it's not like they could have counted on PD to release something in a timely manner for PSVR. They Actually gave Evo studios a hell of a chance to right the ship. But well you know how it went.

Broken mess at launch.
Low sales.
Got shut down.

other then graphically and the awesome gifs is there any way it didn't flop ?