Suspension tuning in GT6 should be more realistic

[EpicHeelToe]

One thing that's always irked me about the GT games is how toe and camber settings are always set at "0" (except for rear wheels, which always have a .2* negative toe) for all factory tuned cars. These alignment settings differ from car to car as do the values that are set at the factory. In order to change them, instead of an alignment adjustment, the user is forced to purchase a full blown racing suspension package. I think this is ludicrous, since toe and camber settings only need a handful of simple wrenches to adjust these settings on any stock street vehicle in real life. No racing components are necessary, unless camber bolts and/or plates are required for extreme settings. I hope PD has improved this aspect of suspension tuning to reflect a more realistic and easier to access experience. Suspension and alignment adjustments are 2 different specifications. They should be separated into 2 different menus, with alignment setting adjustments not requiring any purchased parts. Perhaps a service may be required, but aftermarket parts are completely unnecessary. Perhaps, as stated before, camber bolts or plates may be purchased to increase the range of camber adjustment. All cars should also have their factory alignment specs already set when purchased in stock form. I doubt PD has done anything to correct this problem, but with the new suspension physics model, one can only hope. Does anyone else agree?

 

[shirakawaa]

Yep, I highlighted this a couple times in the past. Since wheel alignment settings are clearly absolute and not relative anything besides zero camber, zero toe, I question the authenticity of the driving model of most cars in stock, untuned form in GT5, as in real life they have a deep impact on car handling (in addition to tire pressure, another setting which should be freely adjustable without any tuning part needed). Heavy fudging in order to fix or improve car behavior might have occurred because of the lack of care by PD about default wheel alignment settings.

We'll see if the partnership with KW Suspensions will be put to some use on this aspect. I fear it won't, though.

 

[dragon_girl]

OP raises a good point you should be able to adjust angles when stock at least a little bit.
Would make sense if you got more extreme angles and more precision when adjusting with the full custom however.

Wonder if it will let us set individual angles for each wheel side now.
Or even let us set positive camber instead of just negative, would be good for those drag racing events so when the weight moves back because of the positive camber they flatten out better.

Edit - I don`t know about you guys out there but when a vehicle gets brought to where I live it needs to get an alignment to make it pull to the left very slightly since our roads are higher in the center so all the rain drains to the sides.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I don't expect there to be any significant changes within the tuning menus. They haven't changed in 15 years. I think the suspension model has improved from what I've seen, but not the interface.

 

[05XR8]

All suspensions should drop until the exhaust pipe or undertray scrapes on the ground. The difference in each type of suspension, should be the spring and damper rates. Lowering springs should be a stand alone option. Street and Competition suspensions should be packages.

 

[eSZee]

One thing that's always irked me about the GT games is how toe and camber settings are always set at "0" (except for rear wheels, which always have a .2* negative toe) for all factory tuned cars.

From my understanding, based on threads from years and years ago, many thought that toe/camber settings at 0 were not actually ZERO. ZERO represented stock settings and then adjustments were made from there.
So, if a car had -1.2/-.6 f/r, those would be represented by 0/0.
Thinking about it, it makes sense and I'm sure it saved some time during development. Whether it's true or not. I have no clue.

 

[dragon_girl]

From my understanding, based on threads from years and years ago, many thought that toe/camber settings at 0 were not actually ZERO. ZERO represented stock settings and then adjustments were made from there.
So, if a car had -1.2/-.6 f/r, those would be represented by 0/0.
Thinking about it, it makes sense and I'm sure it saved some time during development. Whether it's true or not. I have no clue.

I guess only Kaz could confirm this. But it is plausible for certain.

 

[shirakawaa]

At zero camber from the tuning screen on all GT and GT5 in particular, wheels are perfectly straight. You can check this out by making photos in the photo mode and measuring wheel angle on your pc.

Very few cars come with more specific, non-zero wheel alignment settings, which strongly implies that these settings are not relative to zero [EDIT, I didn't actually mean that] some other base default settings.

 

[05XR8]

I think there are only two cars in GT5 that have negative camber set from factory settings. The R35 GT-R BLACK SERIES and the Isuzu Bellett. Let me know if there are others.

 

[Whitey093]

I have been frustrated with the tuning in gran turismo games from the start. In real life i'm a massive car nut. Have modified my cars, drag raced and raced on a short track. In the game, the way you tune a car is so removed from reality that there is no relation to how you would actually do it.

Who gets into autocross or track days and goes out and gets a 100% fully customizable suspension system? Does that type of thing even exist? Never seen or heard of such a thing. What you do is get your springs from hotchkis or eibach or whomever at your desired spring rate and drop. Then you get either a sport shock or a semi adjustable one to go with the springs. You can decide on minorly adjustable sway bars and strut tower braces if you need more. Other games like shift have a much more common sense tuning system. Full customizable race suspensions should still be an option, i would just like more realistic street modifications. Just check out a summit racing catalog. Those are the kind of options that are actually available.

I play gran turismo primarily to drive street cars in a similar fashion to ihra, scca or other club or entry level racing. There are many other games that do more justice to organized racing series. I believe gran turismo should focus more on the street aspect of car culture than try to be a hardcore race sim which it is abhorrent in attempting to represent.

 

[QuikSlvr223]

I'd think that with all that work with suspensions with KW, they must have gotten some settings correct from stock.

 

[QuikSlvr223]

Double post I keep pressing reply instead of edit!

 

[LeadFootLiam]

It would also be nice if we could tune each individual suspension. Allowing us to make better tunes for NASCAR and oval racing.

 

[dragon_girl]

It would also be nice if we could tune each individual suspension. Allowing us to make better tunes for NASCAR and oval racing.

Didn't I already mention that?
Not to be nasty or anything.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Didn't I already mention that?
Not to be nasty or anything.

I make a bad habit of just reading the OP and posting, then reading the replies later on.

 

[jimipitbull]

I doubt PD has done anything to correct this problem, but with the new suspension physics model, one can only hope. Does anyone else agree?

Sorry I took so long. I was busy adjusting the tension of the screws located on the back of my Dualshock 3

 

[dragon_girl]

I make a bad habit of just reading the OP and posting, then reading the replies later on.

No trouble but about that, I to would really like if they let us do that. Silly that we can only adjust both wheels the same on front and back.

 

[azn_racer]

Wonder if it will let us set individual angles for each wheel side now.
Or even let us set positive camber instead of just negative, would be good for those drag racing events so when the weight moves back because of the positive camber they flatten out better.

Considering you're talking over 10 seconds for a reasonable 1/4 mile time. How much time do you think you'll gain by setting positive camber all for the start?

And to the main topic the suspension tuning isn't majorly flawed, yes it does not represent an accurate view of how you would do an alignment in the real life however it covers enough that you would be fine to play with. It's more than adequate for what it needs to be in the GT series.

 

[dragon_girl]

Considering you're talking over 10 seconds for a reasonable 1/4 mile time. How much time do you think you'll gain by setting positive camber all for the start?

Assuming the rear is independent like a McPherson strut and not a solid axle or a double wishbone(still independent but the camber doesn't change much when moving up and down). You would gain much more road contact than if you had it set to 0 and getting a ton of negative camber when launching. Obviously it not like your shaving seconds off but every bit helps.

 

[azn_racer]

Assuming the rear is independent like a McPherson strut and not a solid axle or a double wishbone(still independent but the camber doesn't change much when moving up and down). You would gain much more road contact than if you had it set to 0 and getting a ton of negative camber when launching. Obviously it not like your shaving seconds off but every bit helps.

So lock out the rear end suspension wise. Really stiff rear springs, increase bump on the rear dampers, increase rebound on the front dampers. Essentially make your car into a go kart. You may gain some advantage on the start but what about half way down the track? Now your car has settled and you're running on positive camber the rest of the way...

 

[dragon_girl]

So lock out the rear end suspension wise. Really stiff rear springs, increase bump on the rear dampers, increase rebound on the front dampers. Essentially make your car into a go kart. You may gain some advantage on the start but what about half way down the track? Now your car has settled and you're running on positive camber the rest of the way...

You want softer springs, a higher ride hieght and lots of rebound in the rear to maximize weight transfer to the back. When you are accelerating that hard the rear isn't just going to settle to its natural position.

But in any case you set it how you want Ill set it to how I want simple. I was just saying it would be nice to have the option.

 

[azn_racer]

You want softer springs, a higher ride hieght and lots of rebound in the rear to maximize weight transfer to the back. When you are accelerating that hard the rear isn't just going to settle to its natural position.

But in any case you set it how you want Ill set it to how I like it simple. I was just saying it would be nice to have the option.

Yeah by running softer springs you're just asking for heaps of rear end movement which means you'll get camber change. But please do tell me how running softer springs increases longitudinal weight transfer? I was under the assumption that LWT = mass * CoG height * acceleration / wheelbase. And that even if you do lock out your suspension you still will get LWT. The only thing softer springs does is move the chassis around the wheels more lol.

I mean when you look at cars that do the NHRA or ANDRA series in the top alcohol class they almost never run any rear suspension at all. It's all locked out and the chassis has some flex in it and the wheelie bar does the rest of the work.

 

[dragon_girl]

Yeah by running softer springs you're just asking for heaps of rear end movement which means you'll get camber change. But please do tell me how running softer springs increases longitudinal weight transfer? I was under the assumption that LWT = mass * CoG height * acceleration / wheelbase. And that even if you do lock out your suspension you still will get LWT. The only thing softer springs does is move the chassis around the wheels more lol.

I mean when you look at cars that do the NHRA or ANDRA series in the top alcohol class they almost never run any rear suspension at all. It's all locked out and the chassis has some flex in it and the wheelie bar does the rest of the work.

Well the weight is going to move rearwards anyways but softerish(not super soft) rear springs seem to help a bit making the rear body a little lower when accelerating instead of lowering the rear ride height so much that there is no movement. I was thinking more of a super street set up.