Sweden searches for Russian submarine.

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Dennisch

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The Swedes intercepted an emergency call from a possible Russian submarine that might have had problems, and possibly went missing. Further details are still unclear, but the Swedish army is taking it seriously. Russia of course denies it all. But intelligence agencies are reporting that a Russian ship is heading towards the site. Which of course is also denied by Russia.

So, hot air or Kursk 2?
 
You can never trust something Russia has said to be true.
You can never trust something Russia has said to be untrue.

Hmm.

But in all seriousness, we don't really know what has happened thus far. What 'problems' did this Russian sub have, or has it simply accidentally drifted into Swedish waters?

You'd think it's just hot air and we certainly hope so. But it wouldn't be the first time a country has played chicken with another's territorial waters.
 
The Swedish army reported that there were signs of an underwater operation in their waters, and while listening in on that situation they intercepted emergency calls in Russian.

Sweden itself doesn't want to point any fingers yet, but all signs point towards Russia, they say.

Let's just hope that if it is a sunken sub, Russia will ask the west for help a lot quicker than he did with the Kursk.
 
*Looks up Kursk submarine disaster*

Woah. Totally unaware of that. Yes, let's hope that this is nothing of the sort indeed.
 
Isn't the source some Russian blogger - Pavel Shehtman? That guy had also reported about Russia being invaded by China, lol.
 
Yeah, and the Russians have been flying fighter planes over Swedish territory at two separate occasions this summer.
I've seen these so called 'evidence photos' of the so called 'submarine'. They are a joke, there are better photos of the Loch Ness monster than there are of that 'sub'.
It's all over the news.

All I will say is watch the movie 'Wag the Dog', starring Robert de Niro & Dustin Hoffman.

This is not about a submarine.
 
And the Swedish Navy.
I think, the blogger's message was picked up by Ukrainian news (like the "Chinese invasion" one), then was repeated by some European media, and the Swedish command thought it may be real, and started the searching operation. A classic "broken phone".
Somehow the Swedes know that the submarine is Russian and nobody's else.
 
I think, the blogger's message was picked up by Ukrainian news (like the "Chinese invasion" one), then was repeated by some European media, and the Swedish command thought it may be real, and started the searching operation. A classic "broken phone".
Somehow the Swedes know that the submarine is Russian and nobody's else.
They suspect that it is Russian because they received a Russian distress call.
They aren't sending a large part of their navy vessels for fun and giggles, one would think, and with Putin and his pride you never know, there could be another seaman's grave being build as we speak.
 
FRA (the swedish National Defence Radio Establishment) picked up a distress call in Russian a few days ago with detailed information about an encrypted signal being sent to Russia from the location where observations regarding a possible underwater operation previously has been made. They are currently suspecting that a possibly damaged russian midget-submarine is lurking somewhere in the waters.

The picture below is supposed to be one of the the observations made by someone.
%5Bref%5Dmaincolumnprestart.jpg
 
The picture could be anything, but I think that the Swedish Navy are more likely to act on information they have collected and deciphered themselves rather than acting on information posted by a Ukrainian blogger because propaganda and the west.
 
They suspect that it is Russian because they received a Russian distress call.
They aren't sending a large part of their navy vessels for fun and giggles, one would think, and with Putin and his pride you never know, there could be another seaman's grave being build as we speak.
I think you're falling for stereotypes again.
Leaving an expensive submarine and dooming a large crew to death just because of pride? Jeez. It's not in the Russian mentality to leave comrades in trouble. The stake is too high, don't you think? If a submarine gets found, this will hurt the Crab's "pride" a lot greater than it would if the Defence Ministry had said "Yes, there is our submarine having problems!".

The distress call, hmm... This needs more details.

The picture below is supposed to be one of the the observations made by someone.
SEAxj85Mi4c.jpg


A Swedish source reports about some sub witnessed in the area, including pictures.
http://vlt.se/nyheter/vasteras/1.2684084--jag-sag-en-ubat-200-meter-ut-i-vattnet-

But she looks much like a Walrus-class Dutch submarine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNLMS_Walrus_(S802)_(1985)
 
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@Rage Racer

Did you forget about the Kursk disaster? Those guys probably could have been saved if Russia acknowledged sooner that it happened. The entire western world offered equipment as soon as they knew. But it was already too late by the time Russia asked for help.

And that's how stereotypes are created.

And for the sake of not repeating that kind of disaster, let's just hope this situation is indeed a bunch of hot air blown up by the media.

Russia now claims that the unidentified vessel is the Dutch submarine Bruinvis. The Netherlands acknowledged that that submarine has been part of a training exercise in those waters, but also mention that the Bruinvis has been in an Estonian port since Friday morning. And why on Earth would a Dutch vessel sent a distress call in Russian?
 
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The distress call, hmm... This needs more details.

But so does you saying it's probably some Ukrainan guy whose blog got picked up by the frigging Swedish Navy and treated as fact.

We don't know anything yet. I hope it's merely an "accidental" (or not) incursion into someone else's territorial waters rather than anything else too serious or tragic.
 
A Dutch source reports about some sub witnessed in the area, including pictures.
http://vlt.se/nyheter/vasteras/1.2684084--jag-sag-en-ubat-200-meter-ut-i-vattnet-

But she looks much like a Walrus-class Dutch submarine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNLMS_Walrus_(S802)_(1985)
That's probably due to the fact that the Swedish Navy did a military excersie with the Dutch, including a submarine, several days before. It has no connections to the ongoing events/searching.

Though I must admit, the picture was pretty funny.
 
@Rage Racer

Did you forget about the Kursk disaster? Those guys probably could have been saved if Russia acknowledged sooner that it happened. The entire western world offered equipment as soon as they knew. But it was already too late by the time Russia asked for help.
I remember it well.
The Russian Navy started the searching operation after an hour when Kursk did not contact the command for a standard status report. She was found after few hours of searches, and the rescue operation began immediately. All attempts of attaching the rescue devices to the emergency exit hatch were unlucky, because the hatch was damaged. After many attepts of rescue module attachment, Norway joined the operation.
But there was nobody left to rescue - the majority of the crew was killed by the first explosion, the last 23 who were locked in the 9th compartment did not survive for longer than 8 hours - there was a second explosion when they tried to change an oxygen regeneration cassete, 3 died instantly, the rest were poisoned by the carbon monoxide and died later. So they could not have been saved even with the help from Europe.

What do we see here? Russia doesn't even itch about searching for anyone in that area. And it's not the first day of that mysterious sub being reported.

And why on Earth would a Dutch vessel sent a distress call in Russian?
I don't know... Are the Swedes sure that they heard Russian communication? If they knew what language it was and what were they talking about - may we hear the record (or read the text of it, at least)?

http://www.thelocal.se/20141020/why-foreign-vessels-lurk-in-swedish-waters
A distress call made last week suggests Swedish forces are looking for a damaged Russian submarine, newspaper Svenska Dagbladet reported. The military said it would not “confirm or deny” the identity of the alleged intruders.


But so does you saying it's probably some Ukrainan guy whose blog got picked up by the frigging Swedish Navy and treated as fact.
Time to fix this: that Russian blogger's post was made a day later than the Swedes reported about that sub in their waters. :embarrassed:
I thought so because the Ukrainian media was referring to Shehtman in the reports on that topic.

We don't know anything yet. I hope it's merely an "accidental" (or not) incursion into someone else's territorial waters rather than anything else too serious or tragic.
I hope that, too, but it's also possible to be someone's mistake or misunderstanding. Let's wait and see.
In the "Typical Military" community I'm reading now, people say: "If something really has happened - **** the pride, let's hope there are no victims!"
 
Beeb

Sweden has increased its search area for the suspected troubled submarine and have asked civillian boats to leave waters south of Stockholm.

Interestingly, the Swedish Navy have not disclosed what information they have or have received, citing it only as 'credible' but the persistent rumour of an intercepted Russian distress signal has not gone away.
 
I remember it well.
The Russian Navy started the searching operation after an hour when Kursk did not contact the command for a standard status report. She was found after few hours of searches, and the rescue operation began immediately. All attempts of attaching the rescue devices to the emergency exit hatch were unlucky, because the hatch was damaged. After many attepts of rescue module attachment, Norway joined the operation.
But there was nobody left to rescue - the majority of the crew was killed by the first explosion, the last 23 who were locked in the 9th compartment did not survive for longer than 8 hours - there was a second explosion when they tried to change an oxygen regeneration cassete, 3 died instantly, the rest were poisoned by the carbon monoxide and died later. So they could not have been saved even with the help from Europe.

That isn't so. Both Norway and the UK have trained for submarine rescues where the couplings are damaged - they're designed in such a way that they can be (fundamentally) repaired quite quickly - the primary function is a double-clamp that locks two seals together, very basic and the seal itself allows for quite a lot of distortion. They're designed with disaster in mind, naturally. I think it's fair to say that if the Russians had accepted the help of the British, the Americans, the Norwegians or the Swedes on Day One then the outcome could easily have been much better.

You underestimate how long the crew were alive for.

As I recall Putin was in Sochi (his holiday home, and very nice too) and didn't come back for 5 days? His demonstrated lack of urgency shouldn't make you think that the situation wasn't critical; it was.

There's a good reason for Russia to act this way of course; no superpower wants other superpowers getting up-close-and-personal with one of their submarines.
 
I was just Googling "russian submarine" to read up on the story, but stupid Google predictive text thought I wanted "russian sleep experiment" and now I'm not sleeping tonight.
 
Look for this story being recycled with ever-increasing hysteria; Sweden could use force in submarine hunt.

Reading the article it seems as though they were asked if they might use weapons. They answered honestly and said that if they found an enemy sub then they could use weapons to force it to surface. That's true and obvious.

By the time it gets to Buzzfeed (or any other Facebook-cookie-scraping "news" clickbait) it'll be "OMGZORS TEH SWEDES BOM TEH NUKES ON RUSSKIS!". Or very similar.
 
That isn't so. Both Norway and the UK have trained for submarine rescues where the couplings are damaged - they're designed in such a way that they can be (fundamentally) repaired quite quickly - the primary function is a double-clamp that locks two seals together, very basic and the seal itself allows for quite a lot of distortion. They're designed with disaster in mind, naturally. I think it's fair to say that if the Russians had accepted the help of the British, the Americans, the Norwegians or the Swedes on Day One then the outcome could easily have been much better.
Even if the West could do some real help, it's still not like "the sailors were left to die for Putin's pride". The Navy command just thought they can handle it without foreign help.


I have this info:
There was considerable debate over how long the sailors survived. Russian military officers initially gave conflicting accounts, that survivors could have lived up to a week within the sub, but those that died would have been killed very quickly. The Dutch recovery team reported that they thought the men in the least affected ninth compartment might have survived for two to three hours.[2] Lieutenant Kolesnikov's last note has a time of 15:15, indicating that he lived almost four hours after the explosion.[71] Other notes recovered later show that some sailors in the ninth compartment were alive at least 6 hours and 17 minutes after the ship sank.[26]

Death of survivors[edit]
The official investigation into the disaster found that a number of potassium superoxide chemical cartridges, used to absorb carbon dioxide and chemically release oxygen to enable survival, were found in the ninth compartment. But the level of carbon-monoxide in the compartment exceeded what people can produce in a closed space.[6] Divers had found ash and dust inside the compartment when they first opened that hatch, showing evidence of a fire. But this fire was separate from that caused by the exploding torpedo. This and other evidence found in the salvaged wreck suggested that while the crew survived for a period of time, they may have accidentally dropped one of the chemical superoxide cartridges into the seawater slowly filling the compartment. When the cartridge came in contact with the oily sea water, it triggered a chemical reaction and flash fire.[26] The investigation showed that some men temporarily survived this fire by plunging under water, as fire marks on the bulkheads indicated the water was at waist level at the time. But the fire consumed all remaining oxygen, killing the remaining survivors,[55] who died of asphyxiation or carbon monoxide poisoning.[26]

As I recall Putin was in Sochi (his holiday home, and very nice too) and didn't come back for 5 days? His demonstrated lack of urgency shouldn't make you think that the situation wasn't critical; it was.
I suppose the Navy thought they'll handle it without the Boss being worried about this, and Putin wasn't well informed. On the Larry King's question, "What happened with the submarine?", he said a famous phrase: "It sank."

The thread about the Swedish searches today on 2ch (an imageboard, the Russian 4chan) is called so - "It sank".
 
Even if the West could do some real help, it's still not like "the sailors were left to die for Putin's pride". The Navy command just thought they can handle it without foreign help.

A human tragedy transcends borders. Russia, or the Russian Navy, however you want to look at it, screwed up big time with the Kursk. Both during the incident and its aftermath. Wasn't there that RTL broadcast where the Russian feed edited out the bit where that woman was sedated on live TV because she was criticising Putin yet the world feed saw the event?

No more news about this current sub though, it seems.
 
Well, the Swedes have called the search off. If there was anything out there, it's moved on by now.

They say they have. Earlier in the week they lied about the location of the conning tower photograph in order to obfuscate.

Maybe they've loudly said "Oh it's not there, let's go home Sven!", then tiptoed back with a few submersibles. Bear in mind that they'll have had time to position other, more complex assets by now if required.

On balance though I do think they have given up, I think the sub was Piranha and it made its way back to the mother ship (seen in Swedish waters a few days ago).
 
And the Swedish Navy.

Just to be clear, the Swedish navy din't confirm anything. All they said was that they were running an operation with the goal of confirming foreign underwater activity in the archipelago. Everything else is media speculation based on very lose grounds. Russia is not even mentioned by the navy.

For all I know it could be anything from a private submarine to farting herrings, to a hoax with the goal of getting a lot of media attention ("the media has contributed in a positive matter") so that the government will give the military more resources. It could also be a foreign submarine, even a Russian one, but it's just impossible to know.
 
So it's just media's paranoia? "Russians! They're under my bed! They'll invade me!"

The RF Defence Ministry had said "well-well, we will impatiently wait for the search results". The Swedes, however, didn't get the joke.

It could also be an exercise of the Swedish Navy under the legend of a "hostile submarine in the territorial waters".

I wonder if Russia will ever make a sub in the image of their glorious leade.

Here is a template they can use
AP-GldmmbrSb2.jpg
You're exaggerating the Crab's gloriousity. ;)
Name a carrier after him - maybe, but I don't think his face has great hydrodynamics.
 
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