Taxes

[CMvan46]

How common is it for Canadians to cross the border to get gas or food or whatever supplies they might need? Is there any noticeable trends or effects on local economies?

Oh all the time. I live a half hour from the border and we go across probably once or twice a month. There isn't much that is cheaper up here, alcohol, clothes, shoes (half price literally), electronics, gas, food....

Our border crossing near me, there are 4, have 3+ hour lineups every Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning unless you go early. We went across at midnight for Black Friday and there was a half hour lineup when we got there that got as long as an hour. Was worth it though we saved a ton of money.

Gas in comparison:

Home:
$1.30 per litre = ~$5.20 a gallon

Literally within sight of the border in the states:

$3.50 a gallon = ~$0.85 a litre

And that's being kind of generous. Gas isn't unusual to be up to $1.40 here. Keep in mind though I live in BC and we are some of the most taxed people in all of North America.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Taxes are good, if the tax money is used correctly by the government.

Correct, but there is a lot of control needed from the population, which practically does not seem to be possible. Transparency from the government is needed, but generally they believe the population does not see the "Big Picture".

In Sweden, thanks to taxes, education is free, no matter if you're in 3rd grade or at a university, and from high school and up you actually get payed if you do any kind of studying. Not much of course, but if you live at home together with your parents it's enough to get everything you need and go out a couple of times a month.

Here in the Belgium-Luxembourg area you get some perverted effects on this one. In Belgium a lot of foreigners come to study since the entrance fees are low (government sponsored) and they can do studies that are limited in number in their country; thus Belgians pay for other people studies. In Luxembourg people that pay taxes but do not live in Luxembourg do not have rights on support for university studies of their children. Although all these ways of organizing accessible education have their reasons, you can always find some flaws in it.

The healthcare is also largely paid from taxation although not entirely free (I think it isn't anyway), and everyone has equal access to it.

The issue with this, which I understand from the US opposition to the government organised healthcare is that you do not have a choice (freedom) to decide how much you pay and for what you pay. It might be more efficient if people could choose, the charges put upon the companies are also high and might effect their competitiveness against e.g. China.

P.S.: I love my full coverage (partial government, partial my wife private policy)

 

[axletramp]

Living in Jersey I suppose I should have something to add to this.

One of the deciding factors in me leaving the UK was taxation. Pretty much the only thing that isn't taxed is the air... or not, as I'm sure some of the taxation goes towards researching cleaner fuels and encouraging the manufacturing industries to lower their CO2 emissions.

By the time I left the UK (2003) I was paying over a third of my wage in tax plus the 'congestion' charge in London was about to be extended to where it sits today. Don't even get me started on that one! Why couldn't the government just be honest and call it the London Toll? How could it be a congestion charge (tax) when any vehicle which emits less than 100g/km CO2 is exempt (plus others)? Even 'green' cars cause traffic jams. And what happens when more and more vehicles drop below this threshold which is more likely year-on-year.

The tax on fuel is obviously out of control as well. Motorists are always hit the hardest. They operate a much fairer system here where the road tax is included in the cost of the fuel. If you drive more yearly miles or an uneconomical vehicle () then you pay more. It gives you the choice plus fuel tax is much lower here, diesel is about £1.19 a litre at the moment and petrol about £1.25 (including tax remember).

But Jersey is outside of the EU and Euro Zone - see you can exist without it. OK, we're in a slightly unusual position in that the offshore finance industry has made it's home here due to the less restrictive regulations and 0% tax they enjoy. The overheads are also lower here which means that the supporting infrastructure is where the tax is made and that is quite extensive.

Tax here is much lower than the UK; you don't pay anything on your first £19K (dependent on circumstances like marriage, kids, etc) and then it's a flat 20% on anything above it. VAT, or GST as we call it, is 5% on any goods over £250. But, and it's quite a big 'but', the cost of living is generally higher and property is expensive, I think the average 3 bedroom house is now rated at £600K+ and that won't be a great one!

So to not cut a very long story short, I pay a fraction of what I did in the UK and have a better environment and general standard of living (due to my tax allowances and reductions I currently only pay 2%). Get out while you can, it's only going to get worse... and the best thing? It's not even your fault and you still have to pay for it all! Brutal.

 

[Submerged]

Just China.

Yeah, I pay tax, on my salary, but only as a foreign expert which means about 5% of my monthy income.

Tax on smokes, beer, food? Na, forget it.

If I chose to buy a car in this country, on the other hand, I will pay double the UK price as tax on vehicles is insane.

Tax? Meh, what tax!?

*Smug Shem.*

Sorry for all you folk that pay but I spent years paying tax NI in the UK and barely ever saw a use for it. Tax kept my bins empty and my street lights on. I can't complain about that. (council tax)

Also, once again China intrigues me with the way things are done there. Not saying anything good or bad about it, just how different it is compared to us.

I had looked into working and living in China last year. The tax system was NOT at all similar to the UK for Income tax system. It seems to be far too lax in comparison to England, so I wouldn't really be too surprised if they changed the rules at some point in the future. However, the income tax is only one part of the system. The car tax is astronomical, up to 70% extra in some cases. This is why expensive cars such as Maybachs, Bentleys and so on are so desirable in China. Health care needed to be paid (health insurance and so on) which is a bit weird for an Englishman to consider that, but it does force oneself not to get into scrapes and accidents in the first place....

The most annoying thing about the system in China is that you get ten different answers from one question.

In England, my problem with taxation is that even if you are earning below the threshold for no or very limited tax, you have two options. Inform the government and hope they implement the correct tax code on your pay slip or remember after April to ask for your tax back. Additionally, getting the tax back is a challenge or rather easy, depending on how complicated your financial system is. But then, that's the same everywhere in the world. Thing is, if you are not earning a lot of cash, England does seem to want to have all your money. But that money that goes to the government (once it is not wasted through wages and projects) seem to lead toward a good quality of living for most people.

Projects. Council cutting costs. That annoys me in this country. They could just cut most of the managers salaries to a reasonable amount and save a huge amount of money that way, rather than cutting projects or scrapping systems that was working in the first place!

 

[Vince_Fiero]

There seems to be a large international conflict starting on the next:

Trade war looms over Europe's aircraft carbon tax.

Aircraft have always been a Tax challenge, since the whole purpose is generally to go between different tax authorities.

e.g.: Ryanair and the French justice.

 

[Keef]

Aircraft have always been a Tax challenge

Maybe it's not aviation that is the problem; maybe it's the tax authority.

 

[Lizard]

The ammount of tax thats fair depends on what you want the government to do.

I personaly am anti conservitive as I think they cut too much so raising taxes to allow the government to do stuff is good IMO.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^The problem with that is that the government will have to decide who ends up paying more. And with lobbying being a disease that plagues our American politics, the upper classes usually fight tooth and nail to not pay them.

Which to me, logically makes no sense. If you have the income to pay it, then you have to pay it.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

...the upper classes usually fight tooth and nail to not pay them.

Which to me, logically makes no sense. If you have the income to pay it, then you have to pay it.

I'm with the upper class, well not in means but in thought.
However if you opt out of taxes (except for a minimum), you also opt out of the advantages the state can realise with them. The poor that opt out can put themselves in danger, but that is their choice. Forcing people to pay for others is not a solution, in Belgium we know about the conflicts that creates.


@Keef: Understand. Here the EU is taxing people polluting EU sky, if you do not pollute you do not pay. The principle is clear, but the effects could be very unpredictable on EU economical development. We would hope the EU does something to clean up the pollution with the tax income, but I fear that is too much to ask.

 

[Ibonibo]

Just an other topic I wanted to introduce.

In the Euro zone some leaders are spreading the theory that we can not have a solid monetary policy without having the same taxes everywhere.

Now if the dollar has survived different Tax rates, why wouldn't Europe?

P.S.: We apply here 15% max and 3% on food (including alcohol), which is certainly not going to make it as the norm for the others.

Doesn't matter, Merkosy will be gone soon. Osy sooner than Merk.

The Eu needs to go back to it's roots: economic union, and not legislative, fiscal, social union....

 

[Keef]

The principle is clear, but the effects could be very unpredictable on EU economical development.

Technology and service industries will thrive, while China manufactures all the machines and supplies Europe needs to run those technology and service industries. All the clean air in the world isn't worth losing every last scrap of self-sufficiency, because when that happens you become dependent and cede your sovereignty to whomever is providing the supplies you need, sort of like how the states in the US have done with the Federal government, or how numerous militaries around the world have done with the US military, or how virtually every country around the world has done with the US dollar.

The idea of sovereignty and self-sufficiency might seem arcane to European-types. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not advocating nationalism, but I am suggesting that self-sufficiency might come in handy when the world goes to pot, as it does from time to time. That way when one big important country screws up, they don't drag the rest of them down with it.

 

[Liquid]

The idea of sovereignty and self-sufficiency might seem arcane to European-types. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not advocating nationalism, but I am suggesting that self-sufficiency might come in handy when the world goes to pot, as it does from time to time. That way when one big important country screws up, they don't drag the rest of them down with it.

Most of the common folk in Europe don't like the EU and are opposed to its Borg-like assimilation. This is certainly true with the Brits and Germans I know.

And remaining more self-sufficient is why I'm thankful that the UK is still on the pound and not the euro. But as for our taxes themselves, they're extortionate.

 

[Keef]

Most of the common folk in Europe don't like the EU and are opposed to its Borg-like assimilation. This is certainly true with the Brits and Germans I know.

Then why don't they grab their guns and protest it?

 

[Liquid]

Then why don't they grab their guns and protest it?

We're less interested in guns and artillery. If we kick off, we prefer setting things on fire.

It's the old world. It's all tutting and muttering. And you wonder why we're not the superpowers we once were.

 

[Emptyone]

Then why don't they grab their guns and protest it?

One thing throughout British history especially, that there has only been one revolution of any note at all (The Commonwealth 1649-1660) It seems we as a nation sort of quietly moan to ourselves and get on with it, as opposed to actively protesting about anything, and rarely feel the need for drastic change.

EDIT: Bad date

 

[Liquid]

One thing throughout British history especially, that there has only been one revolution of any note at all (The Commonwealth 1849-1860). It seems we as a nation sort of quietly moan to ourselves and get on with it, as opposed to actively protesting about anything, and rarely feel the need for drastic change.

Commonwealth was 17th century, not 19th. But as a rule, we're less inclined to revolutions. Sure, we've had changes in the Crown from one dynasty to the next but not many true revolutions. I can only think of three, and they're all related;

The Civil War/Commonwealth
Restoration of the Crown
The Glorious Restoration

 

[Emptyone]

Oops, blame the time of day, it was indeed 1649-1660. And yes those 3 you mentioned are all rather related. Is the restoration when we invited William of Orange to come and take us over? Slightly off topic I know

 

[Vince_Fiero]

The presidential elections brought the theme back on my agenda:

French:
* Sarkosy:
still in office: - increase in VAT sales tax to 21.2 percent from 19.6 percent
- tax on financial transactions 0.1% levy
* Hollande proposed to levy a - 75 percent tax on incomes over €1 million.
- 45 percent tax rate on incomes over €150,000 now 40 percent
* The communists proposed 100% tax over 30000€/month

US:
* Obama wanted to tax oversees operations, that would mean I would contribute to the US soon?
* Romney's 25% proposed rate carries a less aggressive reduction than
* Gingrich (12.5%),
* Rick Santorum (17.5%)
* Ron Paul (15%); like in Luxembourg

I understand the French are promoting getting money in so they can keep spending. Not clear where the republican candidates will go without money to spend.

In the current climate I would not go for less income, first get the deficit and debt under control. But it is clear, simple taxes and less taxes should be the goal for all. Less taxes to get more business, I believe in it, but then you need to have your shop under control first, you should implement it when it is easy to reduce income.

 

[MatskiMonk]

In the UK we could more effectively use income raised from taxes, by not giving the largest share of all the revenue back to the welfare system.

 

[Keef]

* Ron Paul (15%); like in Luxembourg

Fifteen percent of what, and where did you get this stat from?

 

[Liquid]

In the UK we could more effectively use income raised from taxes, by not giving the largest share of all the revenue back to the welfare system.

Welfare is needed in many of the lower sections of society, thanks to how poor the infrastructure around them is.

The big question is at what income level do you stop welfare.

I agree that the Government is tax inefficient though.

 

[GTsail]

Fifteen percent of what, and where did you get this stat from?

I think I've seen this mentioned as what Ron Paul would like to reduce the top Corporate tax rate to (from the current top rate of 35%).

I found a link where its mentioned:http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Keef]

Last time I heard he wants it at 0% just like all other involuntary, unapportioned taxes. And the last time I heard, it taxation is a fuction of Congress, not the President, so his opinion is nothing more than a suggestion.

 

[Villain]

This is my first year not being claimed as a dependent.

 

[ziopaperone]

We're less interested in guns and artillery. If we kick off, we prefer setting things on fire.

Also true down south: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/world/europe/in-italy-rioting-leads-to-recriminations.html?_r=1.
Not to mention the HSR controversy going on...

Returning IT, things aren't going very well: VAT on "luxury" goods brought to 21% (will be 23% in October), property tax being re-introduced (and increased, of course) after some years, and, as usual, income taxes at an unbelievably high level (heck, my dad has to pay three different taxes on his income, plus for his and his employees' pension funds, not to mention a government-mandated restructuring of his practice, which wasn't really needed...).

And guess what? A good part of those taxes are simply thrown in the bin. A billion governmental cars, my city council has 140 millions euros of debt (were 160 three years ago, and we have 130k inhabitants!), and you literally have to wait for years for some kinds of clinical exams.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

It has been active in the tax promises.

Hollande and Sarkozy want to tax wealth of French that not resident, it seems they could pull it off everywhere, but in Luxembourg.

The UK finally wants to reduce tax!

 

[MatskiMonk]

Welfare is needed in many of the lower sections of society, thanks to how poor the infrastructure around them is.

The big question is at what income level do you stop welfare.

I agree that the Government is tax inefficient though.

I agree with welfare being needed in some cases, but poor infrastructure can't be blamed for the social and financial irresponsibility demonstrated by many of the (younger) people recieving benefits.

 

[Mark T]

There are certain taxes that I don't mind paying but I think that the level of tax is unfair especially on fuel.

Inheritance tax is just plain wrong, you spend your whole life paying off the mortgage and hope to leave something substantial for your children only for them to be taxed on it. I think the threshold is around £250k but with the high price of property in the south of England it affects many people.

Stamp Duty is also wrong, having to pay tax for the privilege of buying a house is robbery. I'm in the process of buying a second house now (saved £25k over two years - that was hard enough!) and have to pay another £1625 to the government.

The government has just increased stamp duty for those buying houses over £2,000,000 to 7%. The government should be encouraging people to buy and sell houses scrapping stamp duty.

 

[Keef]

Here in the US we fund childrens' public health programs with taxes on tabacco products, especially cigarettes.

At the same time the government has had a strong anti-smoking campaign in effect for years now, basically a war against cigarette companies. Because of these programs and others, there has been a steady decline in cigarette sales for quite a long time.

The result is that some of these childrens' health programs are going unfunded because the government is attacking its own source of revenue. Now just try and tell me that the government cares about the wellbeing of children in this country. Then they want to continually raise taxes to keep the revenue up, but raising taxes lowers sales which lowers revenue...I swear some of the stupidest people in the world hold political office in the US. But even the biggest morons are smart enough to work solely for personal gain.

 

[Liquid]

I agree with welfare being needed in some cases, but poor infrastructure can't be blamed for the social and financial irresponsibility demonstrated by many of the (younger) people recieving benefits.

There are those who sponge for the sake of sponging, but then there are also many people, my own family included, who really have depended on limited welfare because there really aren't any good alternatives. And I really don't get how some people live comfortably on welfare. No-one I know who receives benefits lives well off. It's a meagre amount.

But my own experiences and anecdotes aside, sponging off the taxpayers is a big problem. But in areas when there isn't much investment in anything else, it's difficult for those who do try to work to find any.