TDKR review/discussion - FILLED WITH SPOILERS!!!

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Don't take the Robin connection so literally.

Blake is a combination of Robins from the comics. Is he the Robin, in any known form? No. Is he the Nolan version of a Robin, to later wear the cape and the cowl when he actually dons a mask? Yes. It is why there is a forced, horrible line blatantly calling him Robin. If you think it has some other significance then please explain it, but I believe it is either a blatant head nod or a completely pointless line that has no bearing on anything whatsoever and just happens to share a huge coincidence with the comic sidekick.

While not a masked vigilante riding shotgun in the Batmobile, he does act as Batman's sidekick after he returns.

Instead of breaking down the comic connections I'll link the Time article that already does it.

The Next Batman: Is John Blake the New Bruce Wayne?

For something as obsessed with masks and secret identities as it is, it shouldn’t really be a surprise that The Dark Knight Rises waits until its final moments to reveal the real name of one of its central characters. But, even as we discover that the birth name of Joseph Gordon-Levitt’s John Blake was Robin — changed, presumably, for the purposes of dramatic effect and divorcing himself from his traumatic past — that doesn’t actually explain who he actually is.

The name Robin, of course, is a particularly loaded one in this specific context. The comic-book Batman, after all, has had one Robin or another almost continually by his side since the latter was first introduced on the cover of Detective Comics #38 as “The Sensational Character Find of 1940!” decades ago. None of them, though — and there have been six comic-book Robins in total — ever went by the name John Blake. For that matter, all six of the comic-book Robins joined the Batman’s war on crime as children, not as fully grown, if somewhat charmingly boyish, adults. So is the casual throwing out of Blake’s real name just a red herring, an Easter egg for longtime fans to cheer at as they move toward the movie’s final scenes? Is Blake actually a Robin, or one of the Robins? The answer is, somewhat fittingly considering the movie’s constant mentions of clean slates and hidden truths, somewhat more complicated than a simple yes or no.

On the face of it, Blake appears to be an original character to The Dark Knight Rises; there isn’t anyone named John Blake in any of the Batman comic books published across the Dark Knight’s seven decades–plus career of confronting evil. But that’s somewhat misleading; the same could be said of Miranda Tate. Yet any comic fan who has seen the final chapter of Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy knows that — as Talia al Ghul, the identity she reveals in the movie’s climactic scenes — she is a very familiar character who not only has been part of the Batman mythos since 1971, but is also the mother of the current comic-book incarnation of Robin, Damian Wayne. (Bruce Wayne is the father, adding a delicious layer of soap operatics on top of the superhero struggle.) Similarly, anyone familiar enough with the careers of Batman’s many sidekicks will find more than a few commonalities between Blake and the various Boy Wonders who have served the greater good.

Take, for example, Blake’s introduction to Wayne, when he casually reveals that he knows about Wayne’s double identity; that scene echoes the entrance of the fourth Robin, Tim Drake, into the Batman world. Drake (should we take note of the rhyme between his name and Nolan’s heroic cop, or is that too desperate?) too had worked out Wayne’s double identity before he introduced himself to the millionaire playboy turned nighttime vigilante in 1989′s A Lonely Place of Dying story line. But if Blake has the introduction of Robin No. 4, he has the attitude, charm and even career of Robin No. 1, Dick Grayson. Grayson, who served as Robin for 43 years before retiring and taking on a second costumed identity as Nightwing — with a new look to accompany the new name, complete with upturned collar and David Cassidy hair (because it was 1984, and for comics running merely a decade behind fashion counts as contemporary). If you’re looking to stretch things, Blake’s implied past as a street rat echoes the unfortunate second Robin, Jason Todd (whose lack of popularity in 1987 led to his meeting a temporary end thanks to death by 1-800 reader phone poll, of all things).

Blake, then, is a patchwork Robin, made up of bits and pieces of his comic-book namesakes. True, he seems to have taken nothing from the two female Robins — Carrie Kelly from Frank Miller’s 1986 The Dark Knight Returns and Stephanie Brown, who served just a matter of months in the role back in 2004 before being killed by a supervillain — nor from Damian Wayne, the character who’s been working as the latest Boy Wonder since 2009. But in the grand scheme of things, all three are mere blips in the 72-year-long Robin mythology. Blake, instead, is made up of the three most “important” Robins: Grayson, the originator of the role who lasted more than four decades as a sidekick; Drake, who demonstrated his detective prowess early on and stayed for two decades; and Todd, the Robin who died in service to the Dark Knight. Just as The Dark Knight Rises offers us a Batman who repeatedly tries to make the case that the idea of a hero is as important as the reality, so too does it create a hero that distills the appeal of decades’ worth of other characters into one person, an über-Robin that’s as much the personification of an ideal as he is a person in his own right.

(This take on translating Robin from his comic-book origins to a live-action incarnation is infinitely preferable to the more literal attempts he’d suffered through earlier. Consider, for example, Burt Ward’s portrayal of the character in the 1960s Batman TV show. That particular Robin was a prudish killjoy who seemed to derive pleasure solely from socking crooks in the jaw and making terrible puns. He was merely a square stick-in-the-mud who couldn’t deal with Batman doing the Batusi or falling for the lures of Catwoman or whatever nubile mod temptress who was thrown in his path that week. As far as everyone involved with that hit show was concerned, it seemed, Robin just wasn’t as much fun as his crime-fighting mentor. Even so, Ward’s Robin was still far preferable to Chris O’Donnell’s take on the character in the two Joel Schumacher Batman movies, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. O’Donnell’s Robin wasn’t a killjoy, but the very opposite: a selfish, overconfident jerk who’d steal the Batmobile because he thought it’d be a hit with the chicks, and pout when he felt that Batman was holding him back from his true potential. Compared with those failed attempts, Blake is an even more charming alternative.)

If you start thinking of Blake as some idealized ultimate Robin, taking all the appealing parts of the various comic-book incarnations and leaving out their missteps and growing pain — no one needs to see Gordon-Levitt in the mullet that Grayson sported for a decade, trust me — then suddenly Blake makes more sense within The Dark Knight Rises. No wonder he could stand above the moral quagmire that manages to suck in every other character in the movie, and no wonder that his absolute faith in Batman never wavers. That he can shift from being Batman’s booster to the outside world to becoming his conscience when talking to Wayne (as well as being able to follow orders, take action and even get out of Dodge when necessary) all seems to fit more comfortably together when you start thinking of Blake less as a random cop that you’ve never seen before, but an important part of the puzzle that’s been missing for the entire series up until this point.

In that sense, the final scene of the movie resonates even more. Of course, Blake will take Batman’s place. Various Robins have, historically, filled in for Batman during multiple absences, with Grayson even going so far as to take over the role of Batman during 1994′s Prodigal story line and 2009–10′s Batman Reborn epic, but there’s more to it than tradition. The entire notion of Robin implies, in some way, the idea that he will one day take over as Gotham City’s protector from the Dark Knight; why else even have an apprentice, if you’re not preparing him to take over your life’s work at some point in the future? Even further, it provides closure to Nolan’s fascination with Batman as mythical figure instead of man, and fulfills what Batman himself tells Commissioner Gordon before he flies out over the water with the unstable reactor: who Batman is isn’t important. Batman could be anybody. Or, at least, anybody with the right stuff, the same haunted look, painful past and righteous anger that Blake has already shared with Wayne earlier in the movie.

And so, then, who is John Blake? He’s someone who knows the same tragedies as Bruce Wayne, but didn’t learn the same life lessons afterward. He’s someone who finds it easier to be around other people and share himself with them. (Look at the way he can communicate with the kids in the shelter as proof.) He’s someone who believes in Batman (and isn’t scared of him) but, even more so, believes in justice and realizes that it’s not always the same thing as “the law.” Although he doesn’t share one specific secret identity with any of his comic-book forebears, Blake is Robin for all intents and purposes. By the end of The Dark Knight Rises, he just might be the new Batman as well. Pretty impressive, considering he didn’t even have to put on bright green shorts once throughout the entire movie.
 
Enjoyable, though it lacks a 'feeling' the 2nd had. Also could not interpret most of Bat's or Bane's funny garbled/muffled speech. :lol:
I think most major plotholes have already been mentioned so...

Random-other-fact/query time!

1) If Bruce became a recluse, how can an Aventador be conveniently available for use? When did he last step out into public to buy it? Doubt Alfred would drive one ever.

2) How did he retrieve his Lambo from Selina? Or is it a different one?

3) I thought there was supposed to be a special Chrysler 300C somewhere... Only noticed one in the distant background later.

4) There was quite possibly the most underused Maserati ever in film history.

5) Someone commandeering a Legacy Outback then later stepping out of a Hyundai(?) at the end. Totally random, though interesting I guess. Like the Genesis in Inception.

6) How did Bruce get across the river to the city when everything was under lockdown and he presumably didn't have most of his equipment?
 
R1600Turbo
That article above was hard to read with all the weird random crap mixed in.

My article? By weird random crap do you mean the fanboy tangents or something I'm not seeing on my phone?
 
My article? By weird random crap do you mean the fanboy tangents or something I'm not seeing on my phone?

The apostrophes are showing up as &rsquo but I personally didn't find it that distracting. Interesting article actually.
 
The point was he had to do over 400mph while towing something he had trouble lifting at all.

At what point in the movie are we informed about the huge weight of the bomb? Coz I missed that part, even after my fifth time watching it. On the other hand, however, three men are able to - via a little cart - wheel it up a ramp from the tunnels/locker rooms in a stadium on to the pitch with ease. And also - three, possibly four men are able to lift it from the ground on to the back of a trailer sliding it up a couple of pipes, also with relative ease.
 
Reading this thread confirms at least, I am not the only one less then blown away by this iteration.

In addition to the points raised before which were gaps or 'points of discontinuity', the following bugged me too:

1) We're introduced to a Wayne barely able to walk because of medical issues, and he has to resort to new tech 'braces' that will support his knee's to be Batman. Yet in prison, he didnt have these supports and somehow his joint cartildge issues are non-issues and he can have a normal range of movement again.
That is part of the reason why elements of Batman Beyond may have inadvertently slipped into the film, I believe. Mr. Fox said in the film when referring to the Bat Jet that it would take an more idle mind to fix the auto pilot on the machine, a mind like Bruce's. If Bruce invented the braces in the first place, isn't it that much of a stretch to integrate them into the suit? You have to remember that in the DCAU, strength amplification was an emerging technology WHEN Bruce retired as Batman, and was still considered cutting edge during Terry's time as the Dark Knight. As for the other side of the point, he was delusional about seeing Ra's Al Gaul again. It could have been that disillusion that helped him get over the pain. Ra's got him to stand and get over his broken back the first time.


Can someone explain to be how Blake got the gps co-ordinates for the Bat cave? I must have missed that clue...

I suspect that Bruce had it left with Blake's bag at the reading of his will. He was carrying the said bag with him when he entered the cave for the first time. He also funneled money to had the Bat-signal repaired/replaced with a blue background/grey bat, which also hints that there would have been another batman had Nolan wished to continue the Batman films.

2) How did he retrieve his Lambo from Selina? Or is it a different one?

He didn't. He rode home in an Aston Martin.
 
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R063R
At what point in the movie are we informed about the huge weight of the bomb? Coz I missed that part, even after my fifth time watching it. On the other hand, however, three men are able to - via a little cart - wheel it up a ramp from the tunnels/locker rooms in a stadium on to the pitch with ease. And also - three, possibly four men are able to lift it from the ground on to the back of a trailer sliding it up a couple of pipes, also with relative ease.

When he was first lifting it and then coming up over the buildings it appeared to be giving him trouble until he got into open air. That may have been more due to the flight characteristics of the bat than anything, but that is how it appeared to me. Maybe it even had to do with air disturbances between tall buildings, which prevents most large rotor craft such as helicopters from safely flying between buildings. There is no mention of its actual weight, which is why I did not quote a weight.

That said, how does that change the point that at no time do we see him approach 400mph? And aerodynamics would still play a huge role in towing an object of that size.
 
I may be the only one, but does anyone else agree that Bane's voice sounds like a cross between Sean Connery and Skelator? :lol:
 
FoolKiller
When he was first lifting it and then coming up over the buildings it appeared to be giving him trouble until he got into open air. That may have been more due to the flight characteristics of the bat than anything, but that is how it appeared to me. Maybe it even had to do with air disturbances between tall buildings, which prevents most large rotor craft such as helicopters from safely flying between buildings. There is no mention of its actual weight, which is why I did not quote a weight.

That said, how does that change the point that at no time do we see him approach 400mph? And aerodynamics would still play a huge role in towing an object of that size.

The trouble he had that you mention, I believe is down to him having a little moment of realisation of what's going on. The first time I watched it I thought it was a 'dying for my city in the next couple of minutes' where he throws his head back against the headrest in the cockpit and lets out a laboured sigh, he lapses in concentration for a second and the Bat lowers in altitude slightly scraping the bomb on the street. But now after these times watching it I don't know what that moment is that he has. Maybe a 'pressure is on me to do this, can't fail' moment. I'm not sure.

The weight of the bomb is never disclosed, nor do we see the speedo in the Bat to find out the speed. If he had a minute to cover six miles and done it, then we have to assume he reached 400mph.
 
Alfred chauffeured him in a Bentley (wasn't it?) after the party but what I meant was after he got booted from the company board and lost all his monies.

At the party, you couldn't tell it, but the Aston Martin logo was embroidered on the head rests of the front seats. In fact, the car in question was an Aston Martin Rapide. However, addressing your time stamp, it was a different lambo due to the color. The one being towed was gold, and more likely there for product placement, and Wayne's was black.
 
R063R
nor do we see the speedo in the Bat to find out the speed. If he had a minute to cover six miles and done it, then we have to assume he reached 400mph.
Just as soon as we see the indicators of acceleration. Keep in mind, 400mph is assuming immediate acceleration to that speed. It is a huge suspension of disbelief to accept the required speed was obtained. That is a no-no when placing your story in the real world. When Megashark takes out a jet in a way that requires breaking the sound barrier we all just laugh and enjoy another outlandish moment in an outlandish movie. When physics are violated in a reality grounded film I go, huh?
 
22625_o.gif

I just noticed this in the funny gif thread. Pretty similar to the ending of this movie. :lol:
 
Well, I loved it but did have one problem with the film. The twist in which Bane is revealed to not be Ra's Al Ghul's child, and instead Miranda (Talia) is. I understand that's how it is in the comics but it was a bit weird because the whole thing had been built up for Bane by that point.
That's the point about a twist though, isn't it? Building something up and then twist it around. Besides, Bane is not one bit like Ra's Al Ghul, so Miranda being his child instead of Bane just made more sense in my opinion, and I was not familiar with the comics until I read up on the subject after I saw the movie.
 
And it's not like Talia had no presence in the story until she revealed herself. As Miranda Tate, she convinced Bruce Wayne to build the fusion core, encouraged him to keep going with the project once he shut it down, was probably the person who located Bruce's arsenal within Wayne Enterprises and directed Bane to its physical location so that he could steal it, took control of Wayne Enterprises when Bruce needed to keep it out of Daggett's hands, protected the people closest to him during Bane's occupation of Gotham, and positioned herself close to him so that she would never suspect she was the one in control of the bomb. Talia weaves in and out of the story, influencing events from the very beginning.
 
Well I thought it was a great film, I watched it Once at Imax and twice in a Normal Screening and I enjoyed it Just as much as the first time. Tom Hardy was great, and there was no denying it. And those who thought that the story was rubbish. Think again, the amount of pressure we put on Christopher Nolan was Horrific. Even HE can make mistakes you know?
 
It would be interesting to conduct a study, someday, into what makes the The Dark Knight trilogy so compelling to the masses, so much so that an iota of criticism brings on a hailstorm of hate and threats.

If it wasn't for the 2nd movie, I would probably go see TDKR (still might since it's apparently closer to the 1st movie in principle than the 2nd). But I've read the plot on wikipedia so it can wait. :D
 
mikAE86
I hope they decide to continue with Christopher Nolans Batman World.

Christopher Nolan already said he's done and turned down any Justice League offers. That is why Warner Bros has already green lighted a Batman reboot.

Besides, if they go the Justice League route based off of Nolan's Batman then Batman's first words upon meeting multiple superheroes with actual legitimate powers should be, "WHERE THE 🤬 WERE YOU GUYS?!"
 
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