Teachers with guns ?

[Joel]

Good point, but I still think that we could find most of the guns if we wanted to. Also, it would help if we took a more active role in reducing the drug trafficking that goes on around the border with Mexico.

Want to end drug trafficking? It's an argument for another thread, but legalize drugs. As for rounding up all the guns, that's a pretty optimistic and borderline naive way of looking at it. There are as many guns as people in the US.

That can pretty much be said about anything.

Why should a civilian have a 500hp V8? Sure, it's fun to go around driving fast, but other people might cause accidents with them.

 

[Slash]

I trust a lot of the teachers that I have and have had and therefore I'd feel safe if they carried a weapon, especially as a lot of them are avid hunters.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

That can pretty much be said about anything.

That's very true. Nobody really needs more than 200 bhp, but more is fun. However, it's a lot harder to deliberately kill 30 people with a supercar than with an assault rifle.

Want to end drug trafficking? It's an argument for another thread, but legalize drugs. As for rounding up all the guns, that's a pretty optimistic and borderline naive way of looking at it. There are as many guns as people in the US.

Why should a civilian have a 500hp V8? Sure, it's fun to go around driving fast, but other people might cause accidents with them.

Guns are designed for killing/wounding, sports cars are designed for fun. Both can be used for the other purpose, but see what I said above.

Sure, it won't be easy to round up all the high powered weapons, but if you outlaw concealed weapons, and require all law abiding citizens to turn their assault weapons in, then it becomes much easier to tell who is about to commit a crime, or who even has an assault weapon. You will never get them all, but the fewer there are out there, the fewer lunatics can get their hands on one.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Now it's worth mentioning that on this side of the world (or at least the slice I inhabit), gun laws are far more strict than they are over there. My brother recently acquired his after about 6 months of checks, tests and paperwork. This license is the only one that most Australians, who aren't primary producers (farmers) or of a security/military devision can get their hands on. From my understanding, It basically allows them to buy and use a selection of manual rifles and shotguns on their own property while obeying strict laws. A gun can not be carried on one's person outside their property and must stay in a gun safe to travel by car.

I like the sound of that. ^^

 

[Slash]

@Mr.Dino

Thats about how long it takes to get a conceal weapons permit in New York.

 

[arora]

I like the sound of that. ^^

Right.

When one side only of a story is heard and often repeated, the human mind becomes impressed with it insensibly.

 

[Crispy]

Personally, I don't like the idea of teachers having guns. Kids can find anything, and I'd rather not see little Jimmy and his Kindergarten gang on the playground with a Baretta M9.

Office Staff with guns? Sure, as long as they are required to take a special course for those weapons.

The thing is, this is just so rare. Yes one tragedy happened, but I don't think this mass hysteria that it will now happen every day from now on is the way to go. You scare kids, you make them think that school is unsafe, where in actuality, it is one of the safest places to be. Yes you can never be 100% safe, but the amount of over-reaction to an event is just insane.

It is like a meteor slammed into a building and destroyed it, so now we have to arm every building with meteor defense units. It is a rare event. Instead of worrying how to protect these schools we should worry on how to educate these kids so they can go on to live a productive life, and maybe start stopping these things from happening.

 

[Northstar]

and require all law abiding citizens to turn their assault weapons in

The problem isn't the law abiding citizens though, it's the other kind who got their gun illegally in the first place.

then it becomes much easier to tell who is about to commit a crime

Easier to spot maybe, but harder to stop.

You will never get them all, but the fewer there are out there, the fewer lunatics can get their hands on one.

So because there a few lunatics all the people who are responsible non-lunatics should suffer?

I guess we should ban the internet too since there are some sickos who use it to share child porn with other sickos.

 

[Sphinx]

This subject is brewing everywhere. What are your opinions about a teacher carrying a gun into school for protection of the children ?

Does not compute.

 

[niky]

I think "rarity" is part of the problem with the solution.

I work at a school. Do I agree that it's a good idea to have armed security personnel protecting the school? Heck, yes, if there are possibly armed perpetrators who are trying to get in.

But harried, stressed and edgy classroom teachers forced to deal with unruly students day-in and day-out, carrying guns? Hell no.

And this is coming from someone who has worked as a classroom teacher for unruly kids. And it's especially dangerous to have firearms in the classroom if you are teaching high-spirited teenagers or a special class full of children with behavioral and/or mental problems.

Let's not forget that the latest shooting was by a person with mental problems.

But arming non-teaching staff specially trained for security purposes? A no-brainer.

 

[Joel]

Guns are designed for killing/wounding, sports cars are designed for fun. Both can be used for the other purpose, but see what I said above.

Sure, it won't be easy to round up all the high powered weapons, but if you outlaw concealed weapons, and require all law abiding citizens to turn their assault weapons in, then it becomes much easier to tell who is about to commit a crime, or who even has an assault weapon. You will never get them all, but the fewer there are out there, the fewer lunatics can get their hands on one.

Guns are designed to propel a projectile downrange. Where you propel it is not the gun's fault. Knives are designed for cutting/slashing. Where you swing the knife is not the knife's fault. Cars are designed for driving, where you point the front end of the car is not its fault.

There's also plenty of guns that are designed for fun: http://www.issf-sports.org/.

Again, I also don't agree that rounding up the guns is going to help anything. The only people who would actually turn in their guns are people who weren't a danger to the public in the first place (law abiding citizens).

 

[Johnnypenso]

Instead of arming all the teachers, something I'm sure the teachers unions might adamantly disagree with forcing their members to comply with, why not just give schools the same level of security you would see in any apartment building, at least what I see locally here in Ontario?

A security camera system for all entrances, all entrances locked from the outside at all times, an armed security person monitoring the cameras during all school hours. No one gets in until they identify themselves and state their business and that business is confirmed by contacting the person the visitor is intending to see. Anyone coming to any school is by appointment only, verified by the front office in advance. Bulletproof glass on all entrances.

It's not perfect, you still have recess, kids could open doors for people they don't know etc...but it could help prevent at least some of these tragedies.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The only people who would actually turn in their guns are people who weren't a danger to the public in the first place (law abiding citizens).

According to the facebook updates from my friends, that's not going to happen.

 

[McLaren]

Makes sense, but I don't think it's necessary.

Instead focus on preventing people from committing these crimes in the first place, and if that fails, keep them out of the building.

If we do go with guns in school, limit access points to the buildings and place armed security at those access points. You basically get the same level of protection as a school full of armed teachers with less people/material.

Kids don't seem to run screaming from cops or soldiers.

Kids don't also spend 7 hours a day, 5 days a week with a cop or soldier either, to be fair.

 

[Northstar]

A security camera system for all entrances, all entrances locked from the outside at all times, an armed security person monitoring the cameras during all school hours. No one gets in until they identify themselves and state their business and that business is confirmed by contacting the person the visitor is intending to see. Anyone coming to any school is by appointment only, verified by the front office in advance. Bulletproof glass on all entrances.

That is more or less how most schools I have been in are set up. Usually the only un-locked door while school is in session is the main entrance which sometimes has a security guard by it. They also have that glass with the metal mesh in it.

 

[tankuroded]

How about more survillance in schools?

 

[Exorcet]

That's very true. Nobody really needs more than 200 bhp, but more is fun. However, it's a lot harder to deliberately kill 30 people with a supercar than with an assault rifle.

You don't need a supercar. And I don't think killing 30 people with a car is all that crazy. When I went to school, the street on the side was blocked off for recess. All the kids were out there after lunch. Some maniac speeder could have taken out half the school in a few seconds if he came by at the wrong time.

You'd need a 30 mm cannon out of an Apache to match that with a gun. And don't forget how easy it would be for someone to load a car with home made explosives, wait for school to let out, drive through the doors and then blow up the car. You can do this with house hold items that don't require a background check.

Guns are designed for killing/wounding, sports cars are designed for fun. Both can be used for the other purpose, but see what I said above.

I went to a shooting range for 4 years, and we never killed anything. Even when I handled guns after that, I never killed. I've fired hundreds, or thousands of bullets. None with the intent to even touch a living thing. Gun's aren't mean to kill. They're meant to shoot.

Sure, it won't be easy to round up all the high powered weapons, but if you outlaw concealed weapons, and require all law abiding citizens to turn their assault weapons in, then it becomes much easier to tell who is about to commit a crime, or who even has an assault weapon.

Then why are drugs a problem?

And recall Prohibition, which was a huge boost to organized crime.

Kids don't also spend 7 hours a day, 5 days a week with a cop or soldier either, to be fair.

I suppose not, except the cop's kids maybe. Some kids do hang out at shooting ranges, or just have guns in their homes.

When I was a kid my thoughts on guns were good when good people have them, bad when bad people have them. I tended to lump teachers with the good side along with cops and firefighters (except when they gave too much homework).

I wonder if there is a survey that actually has data on kids' opinions on guns.

 

[Azuremen]

Good point, but I still think that we could find most of the guns if we wanted to. Also, it would help if we took a more active role in reducing the drug trafficking that goes on around the border with Mexico.

First, no. So many people in this nation would refuse to hand over weapons they had obtained legally. Have you ever been to areas with strong gun culture in the country? Not to mention how many we have illegally in the country to begin.

As for controlling the drug trafficking, are you not familiar with the War on Drugs? Are you also not familiar with how massively it has failed?

That's very true. Nobody really needs more than 200 bhp, but more is fun. However, it's a lot harder to deliberately kill 30 people with a supercar than with an assault rifle.

You could easily maim a dozen people, likely more, by just jumping onto a sidewalk when school is just getting out. And not even with a super car, but something common like an SUV.

Sure, it won't be easy to round up all the high powered weapons, but if you outlaw concealed weapons, and require all law abiding citizens to turn their assault weapons in, then it becomes much easier to tell who is about to commit a crime, or who even has an assault weapon. You will never get them all, but the fewer there are out there, the fewer lunatics can get their hands on one.

Are you really this naive to think that banning guns in US would be at all effective in keeping them out of the hands of criminals? And lets not forget that the crazies that really want to kill many people can just build car-bombs and other explosives.

Does not compute.

Sure it does, if you actually think for a moment instead of just instinctively reacting to the word "gun."

But by all means, great contribution to the discussion.

Kids don't also spend 7 hours a day, 5 days a week with a cop or soldier either, to be fair.

This is true, but a lot of people are simply uneducated on guns. Where I grew up, it wasn't uncommon to start shooting when you basically start grade school, and everyone is generally educated on guns. They aren't scary or terrifying (unless pointed at you) and people are sane about it. I far more trust people with guns that own them and are familiar with them than people that are anti-gun/anti-violence because, frankly, they have no actual respect for guns and wildly ignorant about them.

 

[MSTER232]

Teachers with guns? I don't think so; I just can't visualise it happening and I'm pretty sure even if it does happen it would need to be under strict control/supervision and it would also creep the 🤬 out of students. And if all teachers were supplied with guns, then you would have people studying to become teachers just so they can have a gun for free and shoot anyone that doesn't hand in their homework .

 

[Azuremen]

Teachers with guns? I don't think so; I just can't visualise it happening and I'm pretty sure even if it does happen it would need to be under strict control/supervision and it would also creep the 🤬 out of students. And if all teachers were supplied with guns, then you would have people studying to become teachers just so they can have a gun for free and shoot anyone that doesn't hand in their homework .

the absurdity of that last bit.

I think this is more of a US topic, and some of have clarified it would be more aimed towards those that normally carry a concealed weapon.

 

[arora]

And if all teachers were supplied with guns, then you would have people studying to become teachers just so they can have a gun for free and shoot anyone that doesn't hand in their homework .

Happy new year.

 

[terminator363]

It really depends, I would like to see badass teachers with guns but seeing a pathetic English teacher with a firearm they do not even know how to use is scary.

 

[MSTER232]

the absurdity of that last bit.

I think this is more of a US topic, and some of have clarified it would be more aimed towards those that normally carry a concealed weapon.

Happy new year.

Glad it made you guys laugh. But let's hope that won't be the case anytime soon !

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Ahh! I think I've been jumped upon. Okay, I'm too lazy to go back and quote the responses, partly because I'll be restating the argument which you just responded to. Less guns=less gun violence. Example: The UK has some of the strictest gun regulations in the world. They have had 3 gun massacres in the past 60 years, if my research is correct. The US has had that many in the last 6 months. Sure, we have more people, but not that many more. Of course, they have nationalised healthcare to take care of the crazy people, but that's another story...

 

[Azuremen]

Ahh! I think I've been jumped upon. Okay, I'm too lazy to go back and quote the responses, partly because I'll be restating the argument which you just responded to. Less guns=less gun violence. Example: The UK has some of the strictest gun regulations in the world. They have had 3 gun massacres in the past 60 years, if my research is correct. The US has had that many in the last 6 months. Sure, we have more people, but not that many more. Of course, they have nationalised healthcare to take care of the crazy people, but that's another story...

If you'd done your research, you'd also see the rate of violent crime has steadily increased since the UK basically banned guns.

 

[Danoff]

Ahh! I think I've been jumped upon. Okay, I'm too lazy to go back and quote the responses, partly because I'll be restating the argument which you just responded to. Less guns=less gun violence. Example: The UK has some of the strictest gun regulations in the world. They have had 3 gun massacres in the past 60 years, if my research is correct. The US has had that many in the last 6 months.

Aurora, Sandy Hook, and.... I'm forgetting the third massacre somehow.

Sure, we have more people, but not that many more. Of course, they have nationalised healthcare to take care of the crazy people, but that's another story...

Yet you're more likely to be assaulted in London than New York. Violent crime rates are what matters.

 

[Northstar]

They have had 3 gun massacres in the past 60 years, if my research is correct.

There may have been fewer gun massacres, but they have made up for it in bombings, even if only one or two people are killed at a time.

 

[Keef]

Teachers with guns, hmm...

Are they human? Yes. Do they have rights that must exist through logic and reason? Yes. Is one of those rights the right to their own life? Yes. Logically, if one has the right to life must they also have the right to defend it? Yes. Does that right still exist at the workplace? Yes. It stands to reason, then, that teachers in the workplace must be allowed the means with which to defend their own lives.

But there's another level to this: Are those teachers both logically and contractually placed in a guardianship over children who are not legally, and often mentally incapable, of understanding and protecting their own rights to life? Yes. The responsibility to protect those lives falls on the guardian, the teacher, and to be able to exercise that responsibility a teacher must be allowed the means to exercise it.

The whole guns-in-the-workplace argument brings up another dilemma, and that is people carrying guns on others' property. Before you enter another person's property (house, Walmart, workplace) you must first respect their right to their property. They might not want you to carry your gun on their property - their rules are their rules. But here's the catch: Can the manager of that Walmart, or the principle of that school, absolutely guarantee the protection of your life at all times, as if you yourself were in charge of protecting it? No, they can't do that. And that's why this dilemma has been brought up in court already, and many businesses are now allowing guns on the property, the premises being that customers feel their ability to defend their lives is being restricted. Now, they could simply shop somewhere else, yes, but in the interest of keeping customers happy many businesses have allowed their customers to carry concealed weapons.

My workplace allows guns. Most if not all places like it will, simply based on the demographic of people in the machine business. They do it because it just makes sense - what if some crazy ass walks through the unlocked doors during the workday and starts shooting at workers who can't defend themselves? That's not a problem where I work. It shouldn't be a problem where anybody works, anywhere, ever.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Speaking as a high school teacher, I think it's a ridiculously stupid idea.

The more I look at it, the more I become convinced that this is a political agenda that says one thing and does another.

The NRA refuses to support any legislation banning civilian ownership of assault rifles, a weapon that no civilian has any need to own in the first place. They have proposed that teachers carry guns and/or security guards with guns be placed at schools. They claim that this will better-protect children, but given their refusal to back any legislations, this is obviously only a secondary consideration. No matter how many children it might save, guns would be placed in schools to protect the right to bear arms first, and children second.

There is no easy way to put this, so I'll just say it plain: America, if things are getting to the point where teachers have to carry guns just so that their students feel safe, your country is screwed up beyond belief.

 

[arora]

The NRA refuses to support any legislation banning civilian ownership of assault rifles, a weapon that no civilian has any need to own in the first place.

You do know the nra is not part of the gov right? Civilians don't need to own lots of things, fortunately we have a law that gives us the right to defend ourselves from the government with the same weapons they use.

They have proposed that teachers carry guns and/or security guards with guns be placed at schools. They claim that this will better-protect children, but given their refusal to back any legislations, this is obviously only a secondary consideration. No matter how many children it might save, guns would be placed in schools to protect the right to bear arms first, and children second.

Wrong, you are under some illusion that guns can be removed from our country, cannot, will not, ever, happen, criminals will always have easy access to guns here. You want to take away the rights of the innocent.

There is no easy way to put this, so I'll just say it plain: America, if things are getting to the point where teachers have to carry guns just so that their students feel safe, your country is screwed up beyond belief.

Good thing for you, you don't live here then 👍

I'll repeat what I've said more then once since you like to do the same. I think it should be very far from mandatory to place our children in the hands of the state, period. Public schools are the joke to me.