Telenav Wants to Annoy You With Adverts in Your Car

[KingFrog]

Do you not see any difference between free services that sustain themselves with advertising and a product that you've just purchased for tens of thousands of dollars?

I'm more than happy to use a free service with advertising. That doesn't mean that I'm encouraging advertising in paid for products like a car. If Mazda is giving me the car for free they can put as many advertisements in it as they like.

Then it's not really free now is it , My logic is, if people aren't willing to pay for it, it shouldn't exist. Listening to adds is a form of payment, which im not willing to put up with. Also, I pay for my internet service, and I paid for my computer, and my electricity. I don't want to see adds on MY computer. Telenav is offering a service much like any website is, it requires servers and personnel to maintain said servers but somehow it's not ok for them to put an add on your onboard car computer, but its ok for a website to put an add in my in my home computer. Logic! It's plain hypocrisy. There are plenty of ways to generate revenue that doesn't include plastering adds about irrelevant crap on your website, the simple fact is no one is willing to pay to access these sights because there's no inherent value to the end user. GT planet has a premium feature, which allows users to pay a fee if they wish to support the site. IF i ever do have that kind of disposable money I'll probably purchase it. Meanwhile im keeping my addblock off . If Jordan wants to modify the AUP to make it mandatory to run adds, he can, meanwhile don't give me the " websites require the revenue" speech. All websites have the power to pull a New York times/Forbes /Hulu which requires your addblock to be on to access the site.

 

[Imari]

Then it's not really free now is it , My logic is, if people aren't willing to pay for it, it shouldn't exist.

That's not logic. That's an unsupported opinion.

As for it not being free, it's free to me. I'm the only person I really care about in that situation. If someone else wants to pay for my beer, it's a free beer as far as I'm concerned.

Listening to adds is a form of payment, which im not willing to put up with.

See, some people are willing to pay in forms other than currency. Apparently your problem isn't that stuff shouldn't exist if people aren't willing to pay for it, it's just that you don't want to pay in that way.

Also, I pay for my internet service, and I paid for my computer, and my electricity. I don't want to see adds on MY computer.

They're not on your computer. They're on someone else's, who you are using your electricity, computer and internet service to connect to. You can choose not to connect to that computer, if you wish.

Telenav is offering a service much like any website is, it requires servers and personnel to maintain said servers but somehow it's not ok for them to put an add on your onboard car computer, but its ok for a website to put an add in my in my home computer. Logic!

Rofl. Your computer doesn't push ads at you without you accessing a third party. Well, if you have Windows it sort of does and I'm not OK with that either. But the fact that you can't distinguish where your computer ends and someone else's begins sort of makes this conversation moot. It seems pointless to discuss this with someone who thinks that they own the entire internet simply because they have a computer and an internet plan.

It's plain hypocrisy.

It's plain irony, is what it is.

There are plenty of ways to generate revenue that doesn't include plastering adds about irrelevant crap on your website, the simple fact is no one is willing to pay to access these sights because there's no inherent value to the end user. GT planet has a premium feature, which allows users to pay a fee if they wish to support the site. IF i ever do have that kind of disposable money I'll probably purchase it. Meanwhile im keeping my addblock off .

So now you are willing to put up with ads? Before you weren't. Which is it? Or is it only audio ads that you won't "listen" to?

If Jordan wants to modify the AUP to make it mandatory to run adds, he can, meanwhile don't give me the " websites require the revenue" speech.

When you get older, you'll learn how money works. It's more complicated than you think.

All websites have the power to pull a New York times/Forbes /Hulu which requires your addblock to be on to access the site.

You'll hopefully understand also while this is true in the most literal of terms, but also false in real terms. Most websites don't have enough of an established audience to turn away a significant portion of their potential audience. They certainly can require adblock to be on, but they may be doing more damage to themselves by doing so than otherwise.

 

[Foofer37]

Cars have been dying a slow death since the catalytic converter. I'll remember the good 'ol days as I walk to the store.

 

[KingFrog]

That's not logic. That's an unsupported opinion.

As for it not being free, it's free to me. I'm the only person I really care about in that situation. If someone else wants to pay for my beer, it's a free beer as far as I'm concerned.



See, some people are willing to pay in forms other than currency. Apparently your problem isn't that stuff shouldn't exist if people aren't willing to pay for it, it's just that you don't want to pay in that way.



They're not on your computer. They're on someone else's, who you are using your electricity, computer and internet service to connect to. You can choose not to connect to that computer, if you wish.



Rofl. Your computer doesn't push ads at you without you accessing a third party. Well, if you have Windows it sort of does and I'm not OK with that either. But the fact that you can't distinguish where your computer ends and someone else's begins sort of makes this conversation moot. It seems pointless to discuss this with someone who thinks that they own the entire internet simply because they have a computer and an internet plan.



It's plain irony, is what it is.



So now you are willing to put up with ads? Before you weren't. Which is it? Or is it only audio ads that you won't "listen" to?



When you get older, you'll learn how money works. It's more complicated than you think.



You'll hopefully understand also while this is true in the most literal of terms, but also false in real terms. Most websites don't have enough of an established audience to turn away a significant portion of their potential audience. They certainly can require adblock to be on, but they may be doing more damage to themselves by doing so than otherwise.

Except for TeleNav isn't exactly your computer, the dash access another computer to work, making your point " mute". You can choose not to connect to it as GPS/Radio ( that has advertisements) services are a critical or even essential function of using automobiles. As to my first comment being an " unsupported opinion", yeah no, its called free market capitalism. Goods that aren't worth being purchased are not worth manufacturing, hence why products no one buys are discontinued or why businesses no one shops at going under. All advertisements are intrusive unless I agree to watch them, and no accessing a website does not mean I consent to watching/seeing/hearing an advertisement.

 

[Imari]

Except for TeleNav isn't exactly your computer, the dash access another computer to work, making your point " mute".

The word is "moot".

You can choose not to connect to it as GPS/Radio ( that has advertisements) services are a critical or even essential function of using automobiles. As to my first comment being an " unsupported opinion", yeah no, its called free market capitalism. Goods that aren't worth being purchased are not worth manufacturing, hence why products no one buys are discontinued or why businesses no one shops at going under. All advertisements are intrusive unless I agree to watch them, and no accessing a website does not mean I consent to watching/seeing/hearing an advertisement.

I'm not even sure what point you're making any more. You can choose not to use a critical or essential function?

Free market capitalism doesn't determine what should exist, it determines what is economically viable enough to produce or supply. There's a difference. You have an opinion on what should exist, and it apparently doesn't include things that are economically viable by payment means other than cash. An unsupported one, given that you've chosen not to provide any reasoning to support it.

And yes, accessing a website with advertisements on it means that you consent to watching them. That's part of the site content. If you don't want to watch them, don't connect. Why should you be entitled to someone's work while avoiding the method of payment they have chosen, Mr. Free Market Capitalist? That's like saying by taking a cheeseburger from McDonalds you don't consent to paying them for it.

I mean, maybe that's true. Maybe you're actually an anarchist who thinks might means right is the way of the world. Most of us don't agree though.

 

[05XR8]

I think they got inspiration from a certain touring car series. Not sure which one though.

Keep the Fords separate from the Holdens please.

 

[GTsimms]

This.

If this causes you to take your eyes off the road while you're driving, it should be hit with the instabanhammer.

I can see the Telenav instalawsuits coming with the first vehicle accident.

 

[KingFrog]

The word is "moot".


And yes, accessing a website with advertisements on it means that you consent to watching them. That's part of the site content. If you don't want to watch them, don't connect. Why should you be entitled to someone's work while avoiding the method of payment they have chosen, Mr. Free Market Capitalist? That's like saying by taking a cheeseburger from McDonalds you don't consent to paying them for it.

That's 100% false , if this were true being exposed to malware is consensual as you clicked on the website. FYI most viruses are obtained through malicious adware. So if I did consent to watch advertisements then I guess people who get malware through advertisements consented to it. You seem to be clueless as to how advertisements work, The staff from the website does not pick it, they run AdSense which gets their content from a third party source. So even if you were right, I consented to have AdSense run, not the advertisements it displays. Also people who want to use telenav have to " pay for the service" by watching adverts .

 

[Imari]

I see that you can't answer the question of why you should be entitled to someone's work while avoiding the method of payment they have chosen.

That's 100% false

What, the bit about the word being "moot"? It's true. Look in the dictionary. Using "mute" instead is a common miscontraception.

...if this were true being exposed to malware is consensual as you clicked on the website.

Nope. Malware is installed without your knowledge. Advertisements cannot be shown without your knowledge, then they would not be advertisements. If you don't consent to watch the advertisements, leave the website or shut your eyes. This is not A Clockwork Orange where you're forced to watch them.

You can't consent to something you don't know is happening. That's why sex with unconscious people is rape by definition.

You seem to be clueless as to how advertisements work, The staff from the website does not pick it, they run AdSense which gets their content from a third party source.

So? What difference does that make? They've chosen to run AdSense as a means of monetising their site.

So even if you were right, I consented to have AdSense run, not the advertisements it displays.

Lol. "I consented to watching an advertising service, but not the advertisements on the advertising service."

I strongly suspect that your profile is over-selling your age by a lot. That's the sort of logic that leads to this:

Also people who want to use telenav have to " pay for the service" by watching adverts .

Cool. On top of having paid for the car already? So now the price tag on the car should read $45,999 + taxes + advertisements every time you stop the car. As long as there's clarity in what you're paying and how, no problem at all.

 

[KingFrog]

I see that you can't answer the question of why you should be entitled to someone's work while avoiding the method of payment they have chosen.



What, the bit about the word being "moot"? It's true. Look in the dictionary. Using "mute" instead is a common miscontraception.



Nope. Malware is installed without your knowledge. Advertisements cannot be shown without your knowledge, then they would not be advertisements. If you don't consent to watch the advertisements, leave the website or shut your eyes. This is not A Clockwork Orange where you're forced to watch them.

You can't consent to something you don't know is happening. That's why sex with unconscious people is rape by definition.



So? What difference does that make? They've chosen to run AdSense as a means of monetising their site.



Lol. "I consented to watching an advertising service, but not the advertisements on the advertising service."

I strongly suspect that your profile is over-selling your age by a lot. That's the sort of logic that leads to this:





Cool. On top of having paid for the car already? So now the price tag on the car should read $45,999 + taxes + advertisements every time you stop the car. As long as there's clarity in what you're paying and how, no problem at all.

Advertisements are shown without my knowledge, I have no possible way of knowing what lays behind the site I click. Or are you using a special version of Google that has a list of every damn advert and pop up that's going to be placed in front of me? If I click on Astronomy.com, I want to go read about astronomy, not donating to planned parenthood or local Russian singles.

Also about the Adsense topic, Adsense is part of the website, not the adds on it, so even if I did consent to view the contents of the website, the advertisements are not a part of it, but rather a third party. It's like buying a house with a cats house. Once I buy the house I find a stray cat living inside, i have the right to get rid of it. I agreed to the cat house, but not the stray cat. I would be idiotic to say " but you knew there was a cat house so you should WANT the feral cat ".

And once I again I paid 1200$ for my PC set up, 50$ a month for Internet, 15$ a month for electricity and TAX and I still get advertisements when trying to relax and surf the web, but nah that's fine. Hypocrite.

 

[Doomotron]

50$ a month for Internet

I think you're being overcharged mate.

 

[Imari]

Advertisements are shown without my knowledge, I have no possible way of knowing what lays behind the site I click. Or are you using a special version of Google that has a list of every damn advert and pop up that's going to be placed in front of me?

If you have eyes, you know what ads you're viewing. If you're not viewing them, I don't see your problem. Any ad shown without your knowledge is not a distraction and I don't see why you'd care. If an ad does show up, just click away?

It's not rocket science. Every now and then I come across a website with objectionable or intrusive ads. I close the tab. Problem solved. If there's information I need, I can look for it elsewhere or I can decide to knowingly undermine the financing of the site by using an ad blocker. No worries.

There's no requirement to know what ads will be shown before you go to a site. You go, you see, you decide whether you want to stay. You're trying to build it into the ridiculous burden that it just isn't.

If I click on Astronomy.com, I want to go read about astronomy, not donating to planned parenthood or local Russian singles.

Indeed. And it's the choice of Astronomy.com whether they wish to fund their site by including advertisements about planned parenthood and local Russian singles. You are not owed access to a version of Astronomy.com without ads. You're not owed access to Astronomy.com at all.

You'll be interested to know that Adsense actually serves based on data that it holds on the user. It's interesting that those are the advertisements you're getting.

Also about the Adsense topic, Adsense is part of the website, not the adds on it, so even if I did consent to view the contents of the website, the advertisements are not a part of it, but rather a third party.

So when you buy a game made with Speedtree or Havok, that module isn't part of it? That's unfortunate, it's going to be a much worse game without that code, if it even runs.

It's like buying a house with a cats house. Once I buy the house I find a stray cat living inside, i have the right to get rid of it. I agreed to the cat house, but not the stray cat. I would be idiotic to say " but you knew there was a cat house so you should WANT the feral cat ".

Again, the stray cat is not an intended part of the purchase. Check on the contract what the actual house purchase entitles you to. Simply because a cat walks onto your property doesn't make it yours.

As I said in the last post, something slipping in clandestinely isn't part of the deal. Ads are not clandestine. They're the opposite, because the entire point of them is for them to be viewed.

And once I again I paid 1200$ for my PC set up, 50$ a month for Internet, 15$ a month for electricity and TAX and I still get advertisements when trying to relax and surf the web, but nah that's fine.

I don't particularly like ads either. I'm simply aware that many websites need some method to sustain themselves. Some do it through subscriptions. Others through Patreon. Many through ads. And probably dozens of other methods I haven't mentioned or thought of. I find it more pleasant when there aren't ads, but I'm aware of why they exist and yes, I'm fine with it.

You buying a computer, an internet connection and electricity does not entitle you to access a website for free. I'm sorry if you've been misinformed, but the internet is not a communist society where all servers belong to the collective. Parts of GTP are essentially behind a paywall, and that's the right of the site owner. Other parts display ads, and the site owner has chosen not to block the site to people using ad blockers. Again, as is his right to choose.

Nobody on the internet owes you a red cent. They don't owe you free access to information or services, any more than anyone in the real world does. I don't get how you think that the internet is somehow different from every other facet of human interaction in this way.

Want to take a third crack at why you're entitled to someone else's work while avoiding the method of payment they've chosen? Or is that too close to the heart of the matter and too hard to answer honestly? I think if you can actually answer that question, we'll come very close to putting this matter to bed.

Hypocrite.

Settle down and quit the abuse. I've not said anything hypocritical, you're just angry because you don't like what I'm saying but you're finding it hard to refute it with logic rather than emotion.

I think you're being overcharged mate.

I pay something like $80 AUD a month, but the Australia Tax is a well known phenomenon. Stuff here is more expensive than most, simply because Australia. In Japan several years ago I paid half as much for a connection at least twice the speed.

 

[NLxAROSA]

And once I again I paid 1200$ for my PC set up, 50$ a month for Internet, 15$ a month for electricity and TAX and I still get advertisements when trying to relax and surf the web, but nah that's fine.

You paid the manufacturer of your computer. You paid access to the web. You paid your utility provider for the electricity. And the government in tax. But you did not pay the website owner/content provider. They still have bills to pay/profit to make. Would you expect a local store to provide you with free goods/services because you paid your road taxes, car and gasoline to drive your car to their store? Because that's essentially the same.

Still, the whole discussion is moot. Use an adblocker and be done with it. (And you should run one, if you don't want cross-site tracking of your entire internet behavior!) But don't be surprised when paywalls start popping up once everyone starts doing it.

More on-topic: While I shudder at the idea myself, I think this is a valid business model As long as it adheres to road security laws/rules I don't see an issue with having the choice. I certainly think people will be interested in an (almost) free entertainment/navigation system in return for some adds.

 

[SiriusR]

You'll be interested to know that Adsense actually serves based on data that it holds on the user.

I'd like to note that this is why I have both ad blocking and anti-tracking plugins installed in my browser. As much as I understand how ad companies try to be effective by tracking down users' data and activity, I absolutely cannot stand the idea of being tracked to be served ads. Therefore, I always block ads and, whenever possible, tracking from companies that do that, such as Google, and sincerely wish them a sooner bankruptcy. Even if that means some innocent site owners don't get their pennies from me because I block ads from these companies on their sites. Pretty sure what I do is not the right thing to do, but I don't consider tracking down users the right thing to do, unless it's done for the purpose of organizations like FBI, who do this for the safety of people they're set to protect rather than making profit.

Besides, ads don't sell me anything, because from my point of view, if something has been advertised, it probably sucks.

I certainly think people will be interested in an (almost) free entertainment/navigation system in return for some adds.

Maybe, but not me. Just an MP3 player with the USB port for flash drives would be more than enough for me. Even though I wouldn't optionally mind a navigation system, I absolutely don't need anything else in a car.

 

[05XR8]

Maybe, but not me. Just an MP3 player with the USB port for flash drives would be more than enough for me. Even though I wouldn't optionally mind a navigation system, I absolutely don't need anything else in a car.

I don't know why cars can't come with speakers hooked up and a usb port. At least as an option.

 

[Imari]

I'd like to note that this is why I have both ad blocking and anti-tracking plugins installed in my browser. As much as I understand how ad companies try to be effective by tracking down users' data and activity, I absolutely cannot stand the idea of being tracked to be served ads. Therefore, I always block ads and, whenever possible, tracking from companies that do that, such as Google, and sincerely wish them a sooner bankruptcy. Even if that means some innocent site owners don't get their pennies from me because I block ads from these companies on their sites. Pretty sure what I do is not the right thing to do, but I don't consider tracking down users the right thing to do, unless it's done for the purpose of organizations like FBI, who do this for the safety of people they're set to protect rather than making profit.

Ghostery for the win. It's shocking how many tracking tags there are on some pages.

Maybe, but not me. Just an MP3 player with the USB port for flash drives would be more than enough for me. Even though I wouldn't optionally mind a navigation system, I absolutely don't need anything else in a car.

Lol, USB. I'd say just bluetooth and let your phone do the rest. Then you get music and navigation and anything else you want. Hell, the car could even come with a free phone.

 

[SiriusR]

Lol, USB. I'd say just bluetooth and let your phone do the rest.

Well, Bluetooth will do just fine too, that's not really the point of what I wanted to say.

 

[KingFrog]

You paid the manufacturer of your computer. You paid access to the web. You paid your utility provider for the electricity. And the government in tax. But you did not pay the website owner/content provider. They still have bills to pay/profit to make. Would you expect a local store to provide you with free goods/services because you paid your road taxes, car and gasoline to drive your car to their store? Because that's essentially the same.

Still, the whole discussion is moot. Use an adblocker and be done with it. (And you should run one, if you don't want cross-site tracking of your entire internet behavior!) But don't be surprised when paywalls start popping up once everyone starts doing it.

More on-topic: While I shudder at the idea myself, I think this is a valid business model As long as it adheres to road security laws/rules I don't see an issue with having the choice. I certainly think people will be interested in an (almost) free entertainment/navigation system in return for some adds.

Again I could say the same thing about Telenav, you paid for the car + taxes but not for the service which to my knowledge, is free and can be discontinued at any time. Thus TeleNav is not something you purchase with the car, despite it being embedded into the infotainment system. In fact, the software in all car infotainment systems is leased to you, and not actually yours. I was kind of upset to find out my moms corolas center console cannot be replaced, as the software must be " instaled" by Toyota at the dealer, you can buy the unit online, but it won't actually boot up as it doesn't have the software in it at all. The contract you sign with the car outlines that the software is toyotas and must be updated in order for them to honor any warranty repairs, YIKES! My original point is, you have no grounds to complain if your fine with having adds on your computer/phone.

 

[Imari]

In fact, the software in all car infotainment systems is leased to you, and not actually yours. I was kind of upset to find out my moms corolas center console cannot be replaced, as the software must be " instaled" by Toyota at the dealer, you can buy the unit online, but it won't actually boot up as it doesn't have the software in it at all. The contract you sign with the car outlines that the software is toyotas and must be updated in order for them to honor any warranty repairs, YIKES!

Did you know that if you bought a computer with an OEM Windows license, you cannot use that license on any other hardware even if that computer breaks? It's locked to the hardware it was originally installed on.

It's actually not that uncommon to have hardware specific licenses. It just sounds like you haven't run into one before.

I will say that a little Googling will probably get you what you want for very little extra money, certainly a lot less than the dealers will charge and you can avoid giving money to scumbags. There are websites that offer access to dealer services and software for a small fee (eg. https://techinfo.toyota.com/) that can probably get you install files and Toyota is now offering free firmware updates online (https://securedp.toyota.com/download-app/downloads).

Dealers don't make it easy, but that's been their method of making sales for literally decades; make it so difficult that the customer will pay inflated prices just for the convenience. Good luck finding a way around their BS.

Again, just because I think something is a legitimate tactic doesn't mean I have to like it nor does it mean that I have to refrain from helping other people find a way around their sneaky bollocks.

 

[KingFrog]

Did you know that if you bought a computer with an OEM Windows license, you cannot use that license on any other hardware even if that computer breaks? It's locked to the hardware it was originally installed on.



It's actually not that uncommon to have hardware specific licenses. It just sounds like you haven't run into one before.

I will say that a little Googling will probably get you what you want for very little extra money, certainly a lot less than the dealers will charge and you can avoid giving money to scumbags. There are websites that offer access to dealer services and software for a small fee (eg. https://techinfo.toyota.com/) that can probably get you install files and Toyota is now offering free firmware updates online (https://securedp.toyota.com/download-app/downloads).

Dealers don't make it easy, but that's been their method of making sales for literally decades; make it so difficult that the customer will pay inflated prices just for the convenience. Good luck finding a way around their BS.

Again, just because I think something is a legitimate tactic doesn't mean I have to like it nor does it mean that I have to refrain from helping other people find a way around their sneaky bollocks.

I know how the software works, I was just surprised that I cant replace a defective console unit without going through Toyota. The fee is small but ifIi buy my own console, it cost more than if I buy the reinstall service ( 1200$ ) and I don't get a warranty. The software in the consoles won't pair with the car if I rip one out of a junked car either. Toyota is being ****** and ignoring thousands of reports that their touchscreen systems break within 1-2 years. The bottom half is unresponsive. I'v been on their forums and people have the exact same issue . New cars are designed to be serviced only by dealers or the third party's now due to all of the electronics. Seriously fixing my first gen RX-7 is easier, and that says a lot considering almost no one knows how to work on rotary anymore and most parts are NLA or very hard to find. Cras from 2005-2010 are going to get pricey when people start realizing they are the perfect match between modern tech and self-maintenance.

 

[Imari]

Seriously fixing my first gen RX-7 is easier, and that says a lot considering almost no one knows how to work on rotary anymore and most parts are NLA or very hard to find.

Maybe it's just where you live then. In Melbourne there's at least half a dozen specialty rotary mechanics and while you may have to order parts from overseas they're not unavailable.

I'm starting to get the sense that your experience of the world is very different to most folks in western countries.

 

[KingFrog]

Maybe it's just where you live then. In Melbourne there's at least half a dozen specialty rotary mechanics and while you may have to order parts from overseas they're not unavailable.

I'm starting to get the sense that your experience of the world is very different to most folks in western countries.

I Have a first gen running a custom 12 A, The parts are NLA . If I had a 13 B I would be able to get housings and rotors for it, but sadly, I'm not. I have Two specialist around me and I live in Southern California. Out of the thousands of car shops, only two. The third is strictly a tuning house ( mazdatrix) and about ordering overseas, apparently in Aussie , they have all the body parts I could ever need since they make reproductions. I guess everyone thinks I have the 13b RX-7 when I have the 79 model which has tons of NLA parts. 82-85 runs on the 13b which shares an engine with the 2nd and 3rd gen. although the housings are "different" they are all interchangeable. But hey, if you can point me towards a new driver side fender for a 79-80 rx-7 that's not above 300$ plus shipping be my guest. But Il probably get a link from black dragon automotive which shut down , FML.