That's it I'm DONE with Daily Races and FIA Demolition Derbies

[LBDN123]

Reading this thread is like reading the iracing forums all over years ago.

If it were simple to implement a better system or more accurate one, i imagine iracing would have already introduced it.

The fact they havent suggests it not that easy and the fact GTS is pretty much a carbon copy of the iracing system suggests that there are not better alternatives right now.

So just accept it for what it is and stop getting so worked up.

At the end of the day it works fairly well as the races are much cleaner than anything you see on say F1 2017 for example..

 

[LNSE492]

Look at this drop in points in just two races.

GR4 race, started 9th on the grid. First corner cars off everywhere, yellow flags out so I slow down as not to get penalised or hit other slow cars and promptly get shunted off the track.

Tue Dec 12 2017 21:00:43 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time) -> DR:11133 | SR:99/99 | Races:224 | DPUR:6
Tue Dec 12 2017 21:32:40 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time) -> DR:7375 | SR:97/99 | Races:226 | DPUR:56

Where do you find the stats breakdown like that?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Reading this thread is like reading the iracing forums all over years ago.

If it were simple to implement a better system or more accurate one, i imagine iracing would have already introduced it.

The fact they havent suggests it not that easy and the fact GTS is pretty much a carbon copy of the iracing system suggests that there are not better alternatives right now.

So just accept it for what it is and stop getting so worked up.

At the end of the day it works fairly well as the races are much cleaner than anything you see on say F1 2017 for example..

The sentiment I gather from these boards is that the system works best for the drivers who have the best car control or who take a much more measured approach to racing. It doesn't work as well for those that lack a certain level of car control or who want to be able to race without constantly watching their mirrors for the next Dale Earnhardt coming up from behind to make deliberate contact. The question isn't does it work better then F12017 or PCars2. That's like saying my iPhone works better than my [insert budget phone here]. Of course it does, it has a much bigger budget for development. The question is does it do what casual players need it to do to enjoy racing online? I don't think it does and the participation numbers from Milouse back that up in spades. They are atrocious to put it mildly. Comparison to other game is pointless, including iRacing. Giving the casual fans what they need to enjoy online racing is the goal and it's not succeeding based on the numbers.

 

[Foxis]

Reading this thread is like reading the iracing forums all over years ago.

If it were simple to implement a better system or more accurate one, i imagine iracing would have already introduced it.

The fact they havent suggests it not that easy and the fact GTS is pretty much a carbon copy of the iracing system suggests that there are not better alternatives right now.

So just accept it for what it is and stop getting so worked up.

At the end of the day it works fairly well as the races are much cleaner than anything you see on say F1 2017 for example..

I agree it's just a matter of accepting the state of GTS and its wider community if you want to keep sane.

However, your comparison to iRacing is a bit off - at least according to my memory. I was active in iRacing from 2009-2015 in two stints (IIRC, getting old). And while there were some questions and debates about the safety system, I cannot remember the focus being on m*rons wrecking people on purpose. It was more about the no-fault system being unfair to those that got caught up in something due to the mistakes of others.
I also remember most members actively apologising for such mistakes. In general, the community was pretty positive, probably due to the fact that everyone has to disclose their real life name.
Anonymity in general tends to bring out the worst in people sadly.

I have done a bit of research on iRacing over the last couple of days, and despite the above I'm not sure I'm going back. Apparently the physics model has not improved that much over the years. Although some hail iRacing as the best sim out there I personally don't think it is. It's too slippery compared to RL (based on my track experience). Sure I have not raced the exact cars in iRacing, but car types close to a few of them and while the basic techniques certainly transfer, the feeling is way off. GTS is actually closer in terms of grip feel even though it's severely lacking in other aspects.

The sentiment I gather from these boards is that the system works best for the drivers who have the best car control or who take a much more measured approach to racing. It doesn't work as well for those that lack a certain level of car control .....

Well, I count myself in the first camp, and it's not working for me either. So it's apparently not working well for anyone, except those that just accept it for what it is.
My handicap is my iRacing experience. I know what competitive, clean racing online *can* be like. So every instance of someone punting people off on purpose just annoys me that much more.

 

[LBDN123]

the problem you have is people are essentially moving across from a predictable AI based racing environment who are pre-programmed to brake at specific points etc to real people who all do different things. People expect perfection when realistically you are never going to get that on a console game. It's a pick up and play game and most people have little actual racing experience and will therefore make mistakes.

People expect driving standards to be that of real life racing drivers when you just aren't going to get that.

People need to reduce their expectations

 

[Mrgisi]

Yesterday i took part to the fia races...we all had the same car ( mazda, i dont remember which model) except 1 player.. He had the Megane!!!!(here tooo!) I dont know if it was a bug or he was cheating....but he gave us an huge gap.. And he won the race easly.we were so disappointed..

 

[LBDN123]

@Foxis re iracing, admittedly there were less idiots but then it was not a console game. You had to be quite into sim racing to generally become involved in it due to the cost of it.

Personally i don't think the safety rating issue on GTS is too bad. I would say it is at least making people think about being cleaner than they otherwise would.

I do wonder if introducing damage to the daily races would perhaps make things a little better though

Also, don't forget this is GTS's first real attempt an online racing. Give it time.

 

[BigJimmy]

I got a 5 second penalty for passing a lone back marker stuck in a gravel pit in ghost mode. Major face palm for PD there. Luckily I had a 10 second gap to 2nd, otherwise I would have been rather annoyed. I manged to win with a 4 second gap after getting rid of it. It needs patching for sure.

 

[Foxis]

the problem you have is people are essentially moving across from a predictable AI based racing environment who are pre-programmed to brake at specific points etc to real people who all do different things. People expect perfection when realistically you are never going to get that on a console game. It's a pick up and play game and most people have little actual racing experience and will therefore make mistakes.

People expect driving standards to be that of real life racing drivers when you just aren't going to get that.

People need to reduce their expectations

That's not the real problem, it's that too many players simply ignore common decency. It requires no experience whatsoever to understand that punting people on purpose is not ok behaviour. Yet most races are full of it.

I totally agree it is a barrier to entry problem, but it is one that PD needs to adress if they want anyone seriously interested in racing to stick around.

 

[joegrafter]

The system should work by knowing which car hit the other, ie front impact to rear of another, driver who hits another with front of car is penalized, not both

 

[LBDN123]

That's not the real problem, it's that too many players simply ignore common decency. It requires no experience whatsoever to understand that punting people on purpose is not ok behaviour. Yet most races are full of it.

I totally agree it is a barrier to entry problem, but it is one that PD needs to adress if they want anyone seriously interested in racing to stick around.

Fair enough if your having a bad experience i guess.

I've had more clean races in one week on GTS than i ever had online on F1 2017.

Sure theres the odd bit of contact here and there but not many ocassions that i feel it is malicious as such. Just either inexperience or people with controllers which lets face it arent totally ideal to race with.

I suppose to a degree in some instances what you think was malicious was just a genuine mistake.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Where do you find the stats breakdown like that?

Over on KudosPrime. Check the thread on this forum; https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...layers-rank-feedback-requests-updates.362085/

 

[Mr616]

Last night I watched some youtube videos of "dirty drivers". The DR & SRs were around the C/C level. Yes there were dirty racers, but the victims were just as bad. Driving like they were the only ones on track. Moaning when getting hit, but then chucking it up the inside whenever there was a speed difference. Nobody waited for an overtake. It was chaos, a horror show if I'm honest.

Jump forward to my daily races. I'm DR:B (nearly A) SR:S. A great 3 lap battle between 5-6 of us ends on the last corner, with a guy who had been clean all race dives up the inside on the last fast left hander from 4-5 car lengths back and spears me onto the grass and into the barrier. THAT my friends is gaming the system. He was SR:S and stayed S after the race. Any contact that heavy from an S rated player should immediately lose them the SR:S rating.

The system as it is now would be great if everybody drove how PD expects them to. The problem is, human beings.

I've had far more pleasurable experiences than bad in GTS by a long way, but it needs to be harder to achieve, and keep an SR:S rating. That should be the pinnacle. I fear there are to many people grinding for SR:S at the back of races, then once the achieve it, they think "great, now I can drive how I want". No you can't. Once in S you're expected to be more vigilant, more sportsman like. Treat every racer with respect.

The system shows it works when 5-7 fast racers battle it out with no penalties, no contact and hard racing (I've experienced this many many time in GTS). This is normally at the front half of the grid. Trying to make everybody have that mindset, regardless of the system in place is Nigh on impossible.

*maybe a "timeout" system for repeat offences so you cannot just join another race straight away.

 

[eclipsee]

I do wonder if introducing damage to the daily races would perhaps make things a little better though.

+1

And not just mechanical damage, a tow too and waiting for 4 minutes in pits for repairs if the wreck is good enough, after the race we should pay with credits all the car damage.

Don't Polyphony Digital want FIA online racing simulation? Go for it then.

 

[Sean Renon]

Last night I watched some youtube videos of "dirty drivers". The DR & SRs were around the C/C level. Yes there were dirty racers, but the victims were just as bad. Driving like they were the only ones on track. Moaning when getting hit, but then chucking it up the inside whenever there was a speed difference. Nobody waited for an overtake. It was chaos, a horror show if I'm honest.

Jump forward to my daily races. I'm DR:B (nearly A) SR:S. A great 3 lap battle between 5-6 of us ends on the last corner, with a guy who had been clean all race dives up the inside on the last fast left hander from 4-5 car lengths back and spears me onto the grass and into the barrier. THAT my friends is gaming the system. He was SR:S and stayed S after the race. Any contact that heavy from an S rated player should immediately lose them the SR:S rating.

The system as it is now would be great if everybody drove how PD expects them to. The problem is, human beings.

I've had far more pleasurable experiences than bad in GTS by a long way, but it needs to be harder to achieve, and keep an SR:S rating. That should be the pinnacle. I fear there are to many people grinding for SR:S at the back of races, then once the achieve it, they think "great, now I can drive how I want". No you can't. Once in S you're expected to be more vigilant, more sportsman like. Treat every racer with respect.

The system shows it works when 5-7 fast racers battle it out with no penalties, no contact and hard racing (I've experienced this many many time in GTS). This is normally at the front half of the grid. Trying to make everybody have that mindset, regardless of the system in place is Nigh on impossible.

*maybe a "timeout" system for repeat offences so you cannot just join another race straight away.

This is where a simple report function would be good.

CS:GO has/had a system where players review other players who have received enough reports for any number of bannable offences. Mostly hacking, but communication abuse also.

I think a system like that could help with reporting players who abuse the SR system, purposely punting somebody off should be weighted a lot harsher than accidentally bumping someone. Yet 1 intentional ram is enough to keep a blue SR, whereas 2 accidental light bumps can be enough to make your SR white.

 

[chris090927]

Reading this thread is like reading the iracing forums all over years ago.

If it were simple to implement a better system or more accurate one, i imagine iracing would have already introduced it.

The fact they havent suggests it not that easy and the fact GTS is pretty much a carbon copy of the iracing system suggests that there are not better alternatives right now.

So just accept it for what it is and stop getting so worked up.

At the end of the day it works fairly well as the races are much cleaner than anything you see on say F1 2017 for example..

Sort of. The issue I have is with purposefully dirty drivers. I raced in multiple races where one guy didn't qualify and waited at the back of the grid for the racers to come around on the first lap then started reeking absolute carnage!!! on anyone who tried to pass him. I was particularly pissed one race where I had pole and he ruined it for me on lap two. He had a buddy blocking for him and helping crash other cars.

Before the races on the chat feed, he typed all this pro-Trump crap and told off the other drivers.

I raced about 5 races that night trying different races and I was always in a race with this guy except once. It's impossible to raise your SR with someone crashing into you on purpose. I had an A SR rating thaty dropped to D that night.

There needs to be a stricter set of penalties over multiple races for ass-hats like this! He should be banned for at least a period of time. Would that not happen in real racing?

Ideas:
1. Black Flag System: after sending drivers off the road your race is over. This could be contingent on your driveing level.
A & S drivers are immediately black flagged for sending someone off the road. B & C drivers get two chances. D & E get 3 chances. In addition you start at the back of the grid your next race.

2. Multiple race penalties: If you carry a penalty over from one race you start at the back of the grid, or carry that penalty over to your next race no matter when you play. You are also labeled with a penalty icon so everyone knows you're an ass.

3. Adding car damage: If cars attain damage from crashing into one another, then that really ought to solve some of these ass-hat driver issues. It will be less fun for them to ruin everyone's race if they can only finish a lap due to damage.

Thoughts?

 

[John Crellin]

Before the races on the chat feed, he typed all this pro-Trump crap and told off the other drivers.

well there is your problem!
My advice: (to quote the great sameul clemens)
"Don't argue with fools, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

we could fix this with a simple poll before unlocking sports mode

-Do you support trump?
-yes
-No

there is only one answer that will get you into the dailies

 

[Oswald07]

The system should work by knowing which car hit the other, ie front impact to rear of another, driver who hits another with front of car is penalized, not both

What if they brake check you. I spent 2 laps realing this guy in, beginning of the straight was in the slip stream about to pull out for the pass. He pumped his breaks I rear ended him and got a penalty he was propelled forward. There is no penalty system that would see this as anything but my fault. I think the community needs a system of publicly shaming these people. The introductory SR video was all about not wanting to look bad. Well we should create a post for people with no honour who look bad.

 

[Voodoovaj]

+1

And not just mechanical damage, a tow too and waiting for 4 minutes in pits for repairs if the wreck is good enough, after the race we should pay with credits all the car damage.

Don't Polyphony Digital want FIA online racing simulation? Go for it then.

Yes, mechanical damage has proven to be completely pointless.

I want the GT5 damage system finally introduced. I want parts flying everywhere. I want the car to be destroyed and people to DNF. At least it would be entertaining.

 

[vvise]

it's always the beetle drivers...

 

[acemanph]

i agree that there shou

From my point of view, I think it all comes down to the players. Granted the ranking and penalty system could be improved but as some have previously posted, this is supposed to be fun. That being said, I think that might mean different things for different people (i.e bangers who just enjoy ruining it for others, some who just wants a clean race with people of the same skill level and those who just want to dust everyone else leaving them 1min. behind if they could). I hope that for the vast majority, that would be fair and clean racing with others who think and feel the same way.

I'm usually within 2-4 seconds of the faster guys and I'd like to believe that I am a clean and fair racer. I make some mistakes and always try to own up to them. Getting a time penalty or a drop in DR or SR rating for dirty racing is not enough. In real life, those moves would probably mean your race is over or you put yourself in a really difficult spot and you have to make up positions. With that thinking, in addition to the penalties, I think it would help to add damages to the cars to where it starts to affect their overall operating conditions. I would think that would deter some people from treating the game like Mario Kart. I've done about 110 dailies in sport mode at this point, I've had some awesome ones, some OK ones but a lot of crappy ones. Out of the 110, I've only quit 1 race (this past weekend at dragon trail). I started out 7th, I got taken out 3 times in the first lap and later got hit with a 10 sec penalty for a contact that happened while I was overtaking the other guy on the inside and he turned on me...at the end of said first lap...I lost it then and rage quit. From my perspective, I was on the inside line since he left the door wide open and I should not have been penalized since the other player turned on me.

All things considered though, I try not to let those moments ruin it for me. While I don't like online playing because I hate dealing with people childish behaviors, I love racing and GTS is literally the only game that I play online (bought PS Plus specifically for that) so I will put up with it...."for now". I figured it would be alright as the game evolves over its lifetime. I enjoy beating the AI just like the next guy but after a while its just boring so having a nice battle with someone else who races clean and fair is totally worth it IMO.

On a side note, I noticed a comment about slower drivers needing to let faster ones pass...I don't agree with that as it depends on the situation. When Lewis and Vettel just recently dropped back on the grid at the Mexican GP, the back markers didn't just let Vettel and Lewis pass...heck Lewis spent almost 15 laps behind Wherlein before he could overtake him...If they are being lapped then yeah, that's another story and they should pull to the side and let them pass. However, if they are racing for positions with the faster drivers trying to make it back up the grid, they should race for it IMO. I have seen that happened on numerous occasions where someone on the front made a mistake or got taken out and they fell way back. I don't just let them pass when they come behind me, I made it so they race me for it. In some cases those were the highlights of my race because those guys tend to be clean and fair as they make their pass. On the other hand, I've had quite a few run ins with those who became extremely impatient with me on the racing line, flashing their lights and such and ultimately rammed me off track just so they can pass....and that's not cool!

i agree. there should be harsh penalty like car damage for people who ram and for people who got rammed. since its hard for the system to know whos fault it is in the first place, i suggest that both cars should be heavily penalized. we must all remember that this is a game, some are good some are just okey, so, each player has his or her style of playing, some brake early some brake late. u cant ask everyone to drive the same way. either he or she unintentionally or intentionally rammed a car or even a just a slight notch at the rear or sides, both cars should
1)be damage (depends on impact) or
2)both cars should be ghosted and totally cant move for a 10 seconds,

just my opinion. what you guys suggest?

 

[JulesDennis]

i agree that there shou


i agree. there should be harsh penalty like car damage for people who ram and for people who got rammed. since its hard for the system to know whos fault it is in the first place, i suggest that both cars should be heavily penalized. we must all remember that this is a game, some are good some are just okey, so, each player has his or her style of playing, some brake early some brake late. u cant ask everyone to drive the same way. either he or she unintentionally or intentionally rammed a car or even a just a slight notch at the rear or sides, both cars should
1)be damage (depends on impact) or
2)both cars should be ghosted and totally cant move for a 10 seconds,

just my opinion. what you guys suggest?

So you ask for a more realistic experience (damage) and then you want an unrealistic one when the first is applied (ghosted cars)?
IMO full damage would make some people think a lot before they either:
a. Drive in reckless manner
b. Drive like they are hotlapping alone during a race.
Full damage should be part of Sports mode.I've wrote this months ago here.But the damaged car should have to pit to fix that damage and not "fix" it while racing (the same goes for most penalties : people should not be able to drive in a racing pace and erase penalties).
What I say is make the game simulate more what happens in real world and not what happens in NSF world if you want that game to be called a "sim" and an "e-sports competitive" one for that matter.