The 9/11 Republican

[Anderton Prime]

personal attacks = what you do when you don't have a good argument.

Actually I did have an argument, and if you'd care to actually read through the whole thread you can find this argument in post #16 (where I agree the reporter and her driver were not wise) and post #23 (where I try to look at the situation from the reporter and her driver's perspective).

And as for you, ViperZero, I have turned over a new leaf, and I do not resort to personal attacks unless a member has pushed me to my limit. I have never liked you or the way you peddle your American-patriotism bull**** all over the Opinions Forum. However I have tolerated it and for the most part I have declined to post replies in any of the threads you have started.

But when I see you and ledhed discussing better ways to try and stop a car and kill the people inside it, a la:

They should have had a missile.

and

The main 120mm cannon from a M1A2 would have been better.

I feel it is my duty and my right to step in and tell you how I feel about you. It's part of my mission to make sure you're aware that your egotistical and ignorant attitude will not go unchecked on GTP. It will most certainly be checked, by me.

And even if you think I've gone back on my new leaf, I still haven't called you anything as disrespectful as a "Tool." Did you think I had forgotten about that? I haven't. I just decided to overlook it and let bygones be bygones, in the vain hope that you might mature and smarten up a little.

Which you quite obviously haven't and most likely never will.

ViperZero, you are to American patriotism what SuperCobraJet is to Christianity.

For an explanation on what this means, look no further than this thread.

 

[Minnesota01R6]

Anderton, I realize that, but I don't think the results would be any different in ANY OTHER WAR where someone tries to run a military checkpoint. Do you think the car would not have been fired upon if it was WWI or WWII or some other war? I have tried to put myself in the reporter's shoes, and all I can think is "damn, that was really F'n stupid." When I put mysellf in the soldier's shoes I think "yep, I would have had no choice but to do the same thing."

Also, the analogy between VZ and SCJ is just harsh. But it was good for a laugh.

 

[Anderton Prime]

I say again, I agree that she is lucky she wasn't killed because what she did was not wise, but to boast about it and debate on which weapon would have done a better job at killing everyone in the car is so tasteless it's beyond belief. And this sort of behaviour is what ViperZero is all about. When you think of an American soldier being obsessed with guns and killing, it's a fallacy. But it's due to people like VZ that these myths are turned into common public perception (at least in other countries).

 

[Solid Fro]

I think we just got to the root of the problem.

Anderton doesn't like American Patriotism.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Not in raw, ignorant concentrated form. I think it's tremendously important to have patriotism, especially in a country like the US, where if you DON'T have it you could be called a traitor. But there's patriotism, and then there's overkill, which is annoying and more than a little dangerous.

ViperZero, you might want to respond to at least ONE thing I said in my posts regarding you and your arrogant comments? Instead of claiming that I hate American patriotism? Hmm?

Oh, and stop capitalizing the word patriotism. It's not an institution, it's a word. Just because you put "American" in front of it doesn't change that fact.

 

[Solid Fro]

Not in raw, ignorant concentrated form.

Why?

Does American Patriotism have to be diluted and and shackled for you to accept it? Americans can wave their little flags all they want, but when they are attacked, they cannot do anything about or it will be a war crime.

These American troops showed great strength and did not use a 120mm round from a M1A2 Abrams main battletank on the Italian communist's car, but from the pictures above, only used spitballs to disable the car.

Was Sgrena's Car Speeding?

WASHINGTON, March 8, 2005 — A senior U.S. military official tells ABC News he believes the investigation into the fatal shooting of an Italian intelligence officer by U.S. troops in Iraq will ultimately prove the officer’s car was traveling in excess of 100 mph. ...
The driver almost lost control several times before the shooting as the car hydroplaned through large puddles, the official told ABC News. The car had not gone through any previous checkpoints, the source added.

The official also denied previous claims that a tank opened fire on the car.



Funny, this corroborates what the communist journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, has said herself in her Il Manifesto (My Truth).

Sounds a lot like Mein Kampf.

She wrote that the car was “almost losing control” to avoid “puddles” as they “all incredibly laughed.”

 

[Anderton Prime]

These American troops showed great strength

How is shooting at a car a demonstration of great strength? You make it sound like one of the troops walked out into the middle of the road and stopped the car with his bare hands, Wonder-Woman-style.

Shooting a gun does not demonstrate strength of any kind, save for finger-muscle strength, I suppose.

 

[Solid Fro]

How is shooting at a car a demonstration of great strength? You make it sound like one of the troops walked out into the middle of the road and stopped the car with his bare hands, Wonder-Woman-style.

Strength compared to my so called arrogance of using a 120mm tank round.

How do you stop a speeding car?

 

[RacyBacy]

Where is the 400 bullets, Racybacy? I count one bullet hole. Care to explain the other 399?

Well I count a few more, since one VICTIM was shot dead in the head and the other VICTIM in the shoulder.

Any pics of the other side of the car?

There are numerous reports on the net quoting 300-400 shots and the Italian foreign ministry said the shooting lasted 10-15 seconds - more than enough for 400 rounds from machine guns.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Don't bother, RacyBacy. Viper'll just refute that report, coming as it does from the Italian foreign ministry. Because we all know America always tells the truth, and all other countries should immediately be suspected of lying.

 

[ledhed]

Sorry guy but my concern is for the soldiers first and foremost. I make no apology for that and most likely never will. They are out there facing bad conditions and suicidal people hell/ heaven bent to kill them. I wish they had a missle because IMO a missle is more certain to obliterate an attacker driving a car full of explosives at a distance far enough away from the soldiers so that they will not be killed or injured. As far as the journalist I feel she took her job knowing the risks and she should be happy she is alive after so many mistakes she and her companions made .

 

[Anderton Prime]

No need to apologize, ledhed. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, ViperZero doesn't think along those lines. He only wants America to win, and to see things blowed up real good! His track record speaks for itself. He's obsessed with the Armed Forces and I wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with guns as well.

 

[ledhed]

Why does it matter how many rounds are fired ? Are you scoring for accuracy ?

 

[Solid Fro]

However, ViperZero doesn't think along those lines. He only wants America to win

And if America loses?

He's obsessed with the Armed Forces and I wouldn't be surprised if he was obsessed with guns as well.

I never held a gun in my life.

More personal attacks I see. That's when you know you're losing.

Racybacy still can't find the other 397 bullets.

 

[Solid Fro]

Why does it matter how many rounds are fired ? Are you scoring for accuracy ?

The communist journalist Sgrena said herself that 400 rounds rained upon her and that she filled her hands with them.

As the pictures above showed, only one bullet is shown penetrating the windshield.

 

[Famine]

As the pictures above showed, only one bullet is shown penetrating the windshield.

Was it the same one that killed JFK?

 

[antisport.net]

9/11 was horrible, and anyone who approves of those actions should have been in those aircraft. No reason for anyone to ack like that.

 

[Solid Fro]

Was it the same one that killed JFK?

No, that one had magical powers.

American troops just use spitballs... with magical powers.

 

[RacyBacy]

Racybacy still can't find the other 397 bullets.

I'll just wait for the magical powers of the investigation to find them.

 

[Anderton Prime]

More personal attacks I see. That's when you know you're losing.

Ha ha ha HAHAHAHAHA. This coming from the personal attack world champion himself.

I haven't "lost" anything. I am just getting warmed up...just charging my cannons, getting ready to bear witness to you digging yourself into a grave once again...looks like you've started already.

By the way, that wasn't a personal attack either, no matter what you think.

I would assume that not addressing or replying to questions / accusations made towards you in another member's posts is the true evidence of "knowing you're losing."

Your simple, one-sentence responses are great for dodging issues at hand. I maintain my ViperZero=SuperCobraJet equation.

 

[Solid Fro]

Sorry, Anderton. I don't understand the me = SuperCobraJet equation. I'm not even religious.

:shock:

A compassionate Neo Conservative who's not even religious! Holy cow, stop the presses! The world as you know it is gone.

More articles of fact:

Danger on Route Irish

My Army staff section dubbed the dangerous high-speed dash through Baghdad "Route Irish Racing." Route Irish is the military code name for the 8 kilometers of highway linking Baghdad International Airport (BIAP) with the Green Zone.
When heavily armed and armored men cram into Ford SUVs, jam the pedal to the floor and weave through freeway traffic at 70 miles an hour, film fans may think Road Warrior or the Keystone Kops. However, the Road Warrior's auto macho and the Kops' slapstick car chases are misleading.

War in a sprawling, complex megacity isn't a movie that ends in two hours -- it's a relentless experience where training, courage and discipline are constantly challenged by fear and adrenaline.

In Baghdad, commuting is a combat operation, for both soldiers and civilians. Blame Saddam's henchmen and Al Qaeda fascists. These beasts have made the suicide car bomb their primary murder weapon.

Baghdad, like Houston and Los Angeles, is built for wheels. Narrow side streets feed boulevards, which feed expressways. Traffic moves day and night. This road net with a million vehicles is ideal terrain for an auto kamikaze. Roll up to a street corner and detonate -- instant atrocity, instant headlines, with media coverage being the murderer's strategic goal.

Stopping all traffic might halt car bombs -- just like locking everyone in their house might halt all street crime -- but terror's goal is political, economic and emotional paralysis. On Jan. 30, the Iraqi people demonstrated that they aren't paralyzed. These courageous people move, even under difficult and dangerous circumstances.

This brings us to roadblocks. Roadblocks put a crimp in the car bomber's plans. Roadblocks stop vehicles and people, particularly suspicious vehicles and suspicious people. In a war zone featuring auto kamikazes, roadblocks aren't user-friendly places -- and any honest adult will admit they aren't supposed to be. Iraqis complain about American roadblockss -- they're hassles. Iraqis complain more about terrorist bombs -- 2,000 Iraqis demonstrated against terror in Hilla last week to make that point.

At Route Irish's Green Zone exit, traffic slows to a crawl as it weaves through concrete barriers. Once stopped, young Americans and young Iraqi National Guardsmen -- their automatic rifles ready -- quiz drivers and scowl. It's understandable -- in late June, an Iraqi Governing Council official was assassinated at the barrier. A bomb-laden car slammed the councilman's vehicle and detonated.

Occasionally, temporary roadblocks halt Route Irish traffic. I recall a long wait in July as Iraqi police closed a lane and redirected non-military vehicles. Yes, I felt like a target -- it's a war zone, stay alert.

Route Irish's approach to BIAP is clearly marked with signs. Heavy trucks await inspection by troops. Concrete barriers divide the lanes.

The man driving the car carrying communist writer and newly released terrorist hostage Guiliana Sgrena didn't slow down as he approached a roadblock on the way to the airport. Perhaps he was afraid and fear led to speed, or perhaps he was laughing. Sgrena wrote that her car "kept on the road, going under an underpass full of puddles and almost losing control to avoid them. We all incredibly laughed. It was liberating. Losing control of the car in a street full of water in Baghdad ..."

Roadblocks have rules. Coalition and Iraqi troops operate roadblocks with Rules of Engagement (ROE). The ROE can change, based on current intelligence and command judgment.

But one rule never changes at a roadblock: Even escorted military convoys slow down as they approach a roadblock. As for a single civilian auto approaching at high speed? If a driver doesn't hit the brakes, the troops will shoot.

U.S. soldiers fired on Sgrena's speeding car as it approached their roadblock. The fire killed Italian security agent Nicola Calipari. His death is a tragic mistake. President Bush says we'll investigate the incident. I suspect Italian officers serving with multinational forces will help conduct that investigation. We need the facts.

But we also need a fact-based perspective. Though the Iraqi election and the democratic surge in Lebanon demonstrate that this most intricate war we're fighting has the potential for huge payoffs in hope, justice and peace, on Baghdad's streets a Fiat might still be a kamikaze. Or is it a family sedan? As the car rushes forward the soldier -- whose life is on the line -- has a split-second to decide.

 

[a6m5]

These American troops showed great strength and did not use a 120mm round from a M1A2 Abrams main battletank on the Italian communist's car, but from the pictures above, only used spitballs to disable the car.

Choosing not to use an M1s' cannon has nothing to do with "great strength". Simply, it was too close. Even if it was able to hit the target, the explosion would have killed or injured your own troops at the checkpoint. Ledhed mentioned missiles, but they would've had same problem. Cannons, missiles aren't used for hitting targets in the close distance.

Sorry guy but my concern is for the soldiers first and foremost. I make no apology for that and most likely never will. They are out there facing bad conditions and suicidal people hell/ heaven bent to kill them. I wish they had a missle because IMO a missle is more certain to obliterate an attacker driving a car full of explosives at a distance far enough away from the soldiers so that they will not be killed or injured. As far as the journalist I feel she took her job knowing the risks and she should be happy she is alive after so many mistakes she and her companions made .

I agree with you on the horrible environment these troops must face everyday, but we are talking about checkpoints here. Yes, shooting terrorists' car with rocket/missile would be safer for the troops, but how are you supposed to tell which car's terrorists or not, from a safe distance?

 

[Solid Fro]

Choosing not to use an M1s' cannon has nothing to do with "great strength". Simply, it was too close. Even if it was able to hit the target, the explosion would have killed or injured your own troops at the checkpoint. Ledhed mentioned missiles, but they would've had same problem. Cannons, missiles aren't used for hitting targets in the close distance.

I wasn't serious.

 

[Max Powers]

Sorry, Anderton. I don't understand the me = SuperCobraJet equation. I'm not even religious.

:shock:

A compassionate Neo Conservative who's not even religious! Holy cow, stop the presses! The world as you know it is gone.

ViperZero, you are to American patriotism what SuperCobraJet is to Christianity.

I thought he made it pretty clear there.

:shock:

 

[ledhed]

The answer to this is easy ;

but how are you supposed to tell which car's terrorists or not, from a safe distance?

you fire at cars that represent a threat , like those approaching a checkpoint at high speed without reacting to commands to stop.

 

[Minnesota01R6]

I just saw on fox news there are rumors that the italians told the US army that they would be "passing through" the checkpoint. I still don't really get it, though. You would think they would have done some reconniassance (sp) on the route they planned to take, and would have stopped at every CONFIRMED checkpoint along the way in order to not get shot.

 

[Famine]

No, that one had magical powers.

So has this one if it managed to leave a single entry hole in the windscreen, but injure all of the occupants of the car.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Sorry, Anderton. I don't understand the me = SuperCobraJet equation. I'm not even religious.

Quite frankly, I don't either. LOL.

 

[a6m5]

The answer to this is easy ;

you fire at cars that represent a threat , like those approaching a checkpoint at high speed without reacting to commands to stop.

It's impossible to accurately confirm threat from that kind of distance IMO. It's not like terrorists always approach the checkpoints during 100mph or waving "Al-Qaeda" flags.

I'm no expert, but in order to use the M1s' cannon(probably 120mm) or missiles, the target should be at least 100 yards away from the checkpoint. We can't expect the drivers to be able to react to any commands from the checkpoint, when they are 100 yards away. Any terrorists with some intelligence would probably creep up to the target very subtly. Besides, if you are the terrorist driver who's trying to blow up the checkpoint, how would you do it? I know, I'd try to drive up to it without drawing attention to myself, wait until the soldiers walk up to my car, then blow up the bomb.

 

[Solid Fro]

So has this one if it managed to leave a single entry hole in the windscreen, but injure all of the occupants of the car.

Of course not. If the two other people in the car were injured by gunfire, then there has to be at least 2 more bullet holes, but the pictures by from Yahoo News do not show them.

I'm still waiting for the other 397 bullets.