The answer to Global Warming?!?!

[UnoMOTO]

ERIE, Pa. - An Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.

John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.

The discovery has scientists excited by the prospect of using salt water, the most abundant resource on earth, as a fuel.

Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, has held demonstrations at his State College lab to confirm his own observations.

The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

The discovery is "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years," Roy said.

"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Roy said. "Seeing it burn gives me the chills."

Roy will meet this week with officials from the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense to try to obtain research funding.

The scientists want to find out whether the energy output from the burning hydrogen — which reached a heat of more than 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit — would be enough to power a car or other heavy machinery.

"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Roy said. "The potential is huge."

http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570

How cool is that? I hope this pans out into something real.

 

[FoolKiller]

http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570

How cool is that? I hope this pans out into something real.

Now my wife will really hate me as I make a batch of saltwater for my aquarium and another for the car. She's already tired of the buckets sitting on the floor.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I hope this is for real, it'll make all the oil companies mad. I've always said (since i was a kid) that there's gotta be more ways than one to run a car.

 

[Touring Mars]

Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

Since when did hydrogen burn like that? Whatever he is burning is not pure hydrogen, since hydrogen doesn't produce a flame, let alone a coloured flame like that seen in the video above... Clearly, something is burning, but what's so special about that? I've set fire to jammy dodgers by exposing them to intense microwave radiation for 5 minutes...

The flame may be producing light and heat energy, but they don't say anything about the amount of energy that they are using to generate the radio frequency radiation which is allegedly causing the combustion in the first place. Without a detailed description of the experiment, we're flying in the dark. As for the hand-in-the-beam trick, I'm very doubtful that that is a clever thing to do. You can put your hand in an intense beam of X-rays and 'nothing happens', until a couple of years later when you die of cancer.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well, the video showed him making his saltwater using table salt. So he has an iodized salt and unless he is using distilled water there is some stuff in his water too. If he is using tap water most American companies put fluoride in the water, which the Wiki article said will burn with hydrogen. Another possibility is his water may also contain chlorine, which the Wiki article also said burns with hydrogen.

Lack of details in a quick media jump for the story leaves a lot of questions. Obviously the saltwater is breaking down and to my knowledge hydrogen is the only element in the mix volatile enough to burn spontaneously at room temperature, but what else is being released? The color is coming from something else. I know if you sprinkle salt into a flame it sparks up in a bright yellowish-orange color like that, but I can't imagine the salt itself releasing as a gas. Maybe the salt is also breaking down, releasing the chloride?

Heck, it might not even be hydrogen burning at all, but whatever it is is supposedly burning at 3,000 degrees and if it is clean then we should be able to find a way to contain and use it.

But you do have a good point about the power used to create the radio waves. If it can't run on a car battery it is pointless.

 

[Danoff]

I agree that the question is whether more energy is being extracted from the bonds in the saltwater than is being pumped in.

It would be cool if we could build powerplants out of this sort of thing - but I kinda doubt it will work out. I'm still very skeptical.

 

[Philly]

We could probably run a consistent power plant off of this reaction.

An engine would be interesting. We could have injectors or whatever shoot the water in, then have a radiation transmitter shoot waves that cover the cylinder, causing the reaction and powering the car Would it work? My guess is that it would be very inefficient. And it would probably rust like none other unless it was made out of something non-corrosive.

 

[DustDriver]

If this works they'll probably find a way to weaponize (is that a word?) it.
You could maybe use it to send the radio-frequency as a focused beam to boil the water under an enemy ship to literally melt it?

 

[livemusic]

Sounds interesting, I hope this turns into something useful.

 

[FoolKiller]

I agree that the question is whether more energy is being extracted from the bonds in the saltwater than is being pumped in.

It would be cool if we could build powerplants out of this sort of thing - but I kinda doubt it will work out. I'm still very skeptical.

One question would be how well the radiation penetrates the water. I know water can be a good radiation shield, so I doubt very far. But if it could penetrate and continue on then you could just add tanks of water in a line and one beam of radiation could power a whole lot of power plants.

You could maybe use it to send the radio-frequency as a focused beam to boil the water under an enemy ship to literally melt it?

This just got a whole lot more awesome.

 

[High-Test]

This just got a whole lot more awesome.

So, logically, the water cycle will see that the water we blow up in our cars will return to where we got it, right? Nice point about the rust. Would they take a twin spark motor and replace one spark with a radio frequency generator? Would it stand up to combustion?

 

[FoolKiller]

So, logically, the water cycle will see that the water we blow up in our cars will return to where we got it, right? Nice point about the rust. Would they take a twin spark motor and replace one spark with a radio frequency generator? Would it stand up to combustion?

Crazy thing about many radio waves, they can pass through solid objects. Depending on the frequency and the materials it could possibly be outside the combustion chamber.

 

[Famine]

Since when did hydrogen burn like that? Whatever he is burning is not pure hydrogen, since hydrogen doesn't produce a flame, let alone a coloured flame like that seen in the video above... Clearly, something is burning, but what's so special about that? I've set fire to jammy dodgers by exposing them to intense microwave radiation for 5 minutes...

I'd guess at, using my basic chemistry knowledge, sodium ions. Sodium burns with a lovely orange flame and is present in the mix (sodium chloride and water), probably in some ionised form thanks to the input of energy from the radio waves.


I've done burning experiments before where, after burning sodium on a deflagrating spoon, everything in the lab has burned with an orange flame for quite some time afterwards.

 

[FoolKiller]

Wow, one of my semi-edumacated guesses (which is a fancy way of saying I burned lots of stuff as a kid) was kind of close.

 

[Venari]

Um, I thought hydrogen burned with a yellow flame... am I wrong?

 

[Philly]

Crazy thing about many radio waves, they can pass through solid objects. Depending on the frequency and the materials it could possibly be outside the combustion chamber.

We would still have to have one transmitter per cylinder because a combustion engine doesn't work quite as well with all of the cylinders pumping at the same time. It would probably sound pretty awful too.

As for weapons, if we could make one huge transmitter make a field around an island, we could burn all the water around it, thus making it hot and killing everything.

And Famine, if we are burning the ions dissolved in the water, what are the chances of using a different ion that could possibly be more efficient?

Another question: I know that the Alkali metals "explode" when they come into contact with water when they are in their pure form. Does the radiation maybe find a way to isolate the sodium which would react with the surrounding water?

 

[Duke]

I'm going to operate under the assumption that generating the radio waves takes more energy than you get from burning the water.

 

[High-Test]

I'm going to operate under the assumption that generating the radio waves takes more energy than you get from burning the water.

I'm sad to say that I think you're right. Ah well, it was a nice gesture?

We would still have to have one transmitter per cylinder because a combustion engine doesn't work quite as well with all of the cylinders pumping at the same time. It would probably sound pretty awful too.

Since when!? Since when did a Ford FE EVER run better as a slant 4 than a V8? The point of having all of the cylinders running is for balance. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 is far healthier to the engine mounts than 1- - -3- -5-7- . That may not be the FEs firing order, but its trying to make a point. The forces of combustion have to be countered by the forces on the other end, and they have to be balanced well enough to ensure that the motor doesn't break itself out of the mounts. The Pontiac 194 wasn't well received for a reason.

 

[Kylehnat]

Hydrogen burns a very faint white. The yellow would come from the sodium ions in the water. What he is claiming is that the radio waves break water down into its elements. This is impossible, because radio wavelengths are far too long to split covalent bonds apart. Judging by the complexity of his equipment, he's neglecting something rather large.

The odds of someone "stumbling" across the answer to our energy problem are next to nothing. The way in which we harness energy is far more fundamental than curing cancer (the "rules" of which are not fully understood). We know the rules of physics and chemistry damn well. He seems to be violating a few of them here.

 

[Danoff]

As a side note, even if this thing were really a viable energy source (unlikely), the question as to whether it would end global warming would be a very difficult one to answer.

 

[Philly]

Since when!? Since when did a Ford FE EVER run better as a slant 4 than a V8? The point of having all of the cylinders running is for balance. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 is far healthier to the engine mounts than 1- - -3- -5-7- . That may not be the FEs firing order, but its trying to make a point. The forces of combustion have to be countered by the forces on the other end, and they have to be balanced well enough to ensure that the motor doesn't break itself out of the mounts. The Pontiac 194 wasn't well received for a reason.

I'm talking about having all four/eight/twelve cylinders firing at the same time. All on the same part of the cycle at the same time.

We probably would never get the water to put out what we put into it. As for this as the answer to global warming, I would say that is quite a bit exaggerated. It probably won't make it as an energy source.

And about the energy of the radio waves, because the sodium is dissolved in the water, there are just sodium ions floating around in the water. No bonds to break. I was thinking that the radio waves would pretty much just act as a starter, giving the necessary energy required to start a reaction. Similar to how gasoline needs a spark to begin it's reaction with air.

 

[Kylehnat]

He says that the hydrogen will burn as long as the radio waves are present.

This wouldn't be another case of a researcher playing investors for chumps and running off to Tahiti with a large grant, would it? No, they wouldn't do that.

 

[niky]

This guy has been playing with radio waves for years. He's an ex-broadcast engineer turned cancer survivor who's got an idea of killing cancer cells with radio waves.

The idea is intriguing... release metallic flakes (oh, okay... "nanoparticles", he calls it) into the bloodstream, and the cancer cells' high metabolism (or whatever) causes them to absorb it, then you bombard them with the right frequency to reduce them to cancer cell puree.

As to the usefulness of this idea... hard to say. It's likely that a lot of power is being used to generate the RF, and the power you could extract from the flame might not be enough to sustain the RF generator.

As for weaponizing... the Nazis went through all of that with ultrasonics, supposedly, near the end of the war. Field effect weapons are difficult to use, and require very specific circumstances to be effective.

By the time you managed to light the seas aboil around an enemy boat, you'll have probably taken quite a few torpedoes and missiles up the wazoo.

There's a reason, despite over a hundred years of technical progress, that we still use projectile weapons. Whoever hits first and hardest usually wins.

 

[Touring Mars]

He says that the hydrogen will burn as long as the radio waves are present.

This wouldn't be another case of a researcher playing investors for chumps and running off to Tahiti with a large grant, would it? No, they wouldn't do that.

Ha ha, you've worked in academia before, haven't you...?

Funnily enough, the work I used to do was surprisingly similar to this "experiment". I used to do NMR spectroscopy, which involves hitting an aqueous sample with RF pulses. My solutions were often fairly high in salt, and did they ever burst into flames? Did they 🤬.... Given the concentration of salt in my samples, the total volume of liquid, and the relatively high power (0.1-1W) of radiation passing through such a small volume (~0.5 cm3), you might well wonder how come my samples didn't behave the same way as this guy is claiming.

 

[Robin]

On the surface this sounds great and I really hope it works out but there are lots of issues...

Firstly constant radio frequences, probably quite powerful so it will be like driving around in a mobile network transmitter... we will all get brain tumours!

Secondly everything will rust tons! Transport to non coastal areas will be tricky because you probably need alot more to get the same perfomance as petrol..Thousands of miles of pipes to replace powerlines!

Thirdly it probably wont solve global warming because the amounts of water needed for lets say a power station would be insane, your going to drain the sea pumping it and also if you pump it back in afterwards it will be different killing fish, probably heating up the water and causing the ice caps to melt anyway!

Fourthly if its literally free (once to have the tech you can get a bucket and go to the beach) what compaines are going to bother investing in it! Theres no money to be made! People will just source it themselves, sure they make money on the technology but once you sell your saltwater powered car thats all they are going to make from you!

It would really take some major imminent environmental threat to the human race before anything is implemented...

But if it can be used for anything at all beneficial then im all for it!

Robin