The detailing and washing thread

  • Thread starter Moglet
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Just two quick questions on the topic:


  1. What does the term 'agitation' mean in this field of work?
  2. Why do professional detailers recommend you use wheel cleaner instead of degreaser in the door jams? (example)
  3. Should degreaser only ever be used on the painted bodywork when cleaning the front? (due to spray from bugs)
 
Pretty bad. Maybe it makes it worse I dunno. The Front brakes on the thing are monstrous.

Can't be much worse than cleaning 4 of these:

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But yeah, there's a few products you can buy. The stuff I've got doesn't repel it as such (so they still get caked in the stuff, just slightly less than normal), but it does make it much much easier to get off when you clean it. I didn't use it once, and regretted it the next time I had to clean them. I've forgotten the name, but it comes in a trigger spray bottle and feels like Pledge when you put it on.
 
Pretty bad. Maybe it makes it worse I dunno. The Front brakes on the thing are monstrous.

From what I've noticed with our Saabs, they deposit loads of brake dust on the wheels. Maybe it's the pads, maybe it's the finish on the wheels, but they get filthy very quickly.

I'm pretty sure that some aftermarket companies advertise their brake pads as not giving off much dust, so maybe look into some of those, to beat the problem at the source!

Regardless, a high-pressure hose seems to cut through the grime pretty quickly. Our driveway is stained black afterwards!
 
Can't be much worse than cleaning 4 of these:

33fa_1.JPG
The spokes on my RPF1s are really thin, so the inside of the wheel is very exposed. I have to clean in there every time I wash. That's a serious PITA because I have to roll the car to get the spots at the top of the calipers.
 
Also, @ Moglet: Your 500 is probably the cleanest about by the sounds of it. There's a guy in my class with an identical one to you, and I noticed yesterday when he overtook me that his was in a horrific state. Bought it in september, and I don't think it's seen a sponge since then. I mean yeesh, if I'd spent £8,000 on my first car you wouldn't be able to stop be cleaning the damn thing.

Mine hasn't seen a sponge since I first got it either. Sponges trap dirt and scratch your paintwork with the next wash so I avoid them. That's why I also use two buckets so I can rinse the dirt out of the wash mitt between applying the shampoo coat. 👍

For those who have never used this method, here's why I use it. My car was 2 weeks old when this wash was performed, the one on the left was my rinse bucket used to rinse my wash mitt (also shown) between applying the shampoo and the one on the right contained just shampoo. If you use just 1 bucket all the dirt in the left will go back onto your car! Which kind of defies the object really.



Just two quick questions on the topic:


  1. What does the term 'agitation' mean in this field of work?
  2. Why do professional detailers recommend you use wheel cleaner instead of degreaser in the door jams? (example)
  3. Should degreaser only ever be used on the painted bodywork when cleaning the front? (due to spray from bugs)

'Agitation' basically means scrubbing the area where the product has been applied so that it foams up slightly and removes stubborn dirt as you pass over it.

For door jambs I tend to use a cheap all purpose cleaner (APC) instead of wheel cleaner. APC should be diluted a fair amount and then used to clean door jambs and even interiors.

Regarding the bugs, a decent shampoo should remove them with your hand wash. I use 'Sour Power' from the Dodo Juice boys and it removes everything but tar spots. Using a degreaser will remove any wax or sealant you've applied to the car and should be avoided unless it's absolutely necessary. But if you do need to use a strong product, then a tar remover should do the trick.

Do you guys have any tips/products for keeping brake dust from building up on the wheels? I only cleaned my wheels yesterday and they're caked already, especially the fronts.

I use Finish Kare 1000p on my wheels and it seems to hold off the brake dust quite well, but other people I know also recommend Poorboys' Wheel Sealant. Both of these products will add a sub-micron thickness level of protection to your wheels meaning the brake dust will try and stick to a 'slick' surface as opposed to your wheels. It's the same sort of idea as getting oil on your hands, when you try to wash it off it won't budge without a special cleaner!

EDIT: Jacoja, the methods used by that company sound terrible! No offence but most detailers I know of would cringe reading that post, especially the bit about the wheels. Most people I know nowadays use Valet Pro Bilberry, it's a really mild cleaner designed not to be harsh on wheels but it's still very, very effective, even on caked on dirt.
 
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Take it to the hands free car wash once a month. $7.99.
Wash it at the coin op once a week in between. $2.50 each time.

Perhaps an hour of my time a month....
 
when the dust gets visible is when i wash it, usually with polyglaze all purpose cleaner, with a sponge and rinse it off with the hose, and let it dry in the sun then after its dry spray silicone on the tyres and rims (black biscuits) but its only a crappy civic.

The race car on the other hand has never had a wash since it was painted 3-4 months ago, only had a dry polish for photos, and is currently in the garage under sheets and a tarp (sheets to protect the paint)
 
Do you guys have any tips/products for keeping brake dust from building up on the wheels? I only cleaned my wheels yesterday and they're caked already, especially the fronts.

I've got two reccomendations for you:
-Wax your wheels. While it won't help with buildup much, it will make them much easier to clean.
-When you buy new brake pads, spend some extra money and get a ceramic pad. It puts out a grey/white dust that's much less visible.

I pretty much do the same except with Armor-all in the interior and i use Mother's on the rims.

I would not reccomend the use of Armour-All. I've heard from multiple sources (but cannot personally confirm) that Armour-All will eventually dry out any plastics that it's used on, resulting in fading, powdery deposits, and even cracking (on dash pads).

For those who have never used this method, here's why I use it. My car was 2 weeks old when this wash was performed, the one on the left was my rinse bucket used to rinse my wash mitt (also shown) between applying the shampoo and the one on the right contained just shampoo. If you use just 1 bucket all the dirt in the left will go back onto your car! Which kind of defies the object really.


One thing that I will point out is that the bigger the bucket you use, the better it is for your paint. Using a small bucket (as pictured) gives very little room for any solids to settle in the water. The two-bucket method negates this somewhat, but you're still disturbing any silt on the bottom of the 'dirty' bucket every time you rinse your mitt.

I have used a single 10 gallon bucket (but still plan on switching to two of the same size) to help negate any solids in the water. They're still there, but because you've got much more water to use, you're not disturbing it every time.


Edit - I'll add that the Canadian Zymol store looks pretty expensive. I get all of my supplies at 'net' costs from the local auto parts suppliers, which typically knocks the prices down by half. Hence why I do use Meguiars primarily.
 
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The spokes on my RPF1s are really thin, so the inside of the wheel is very exposed.

You have RPF1's, epic jealously here. Those are my absolute favourite rim in black, you got black right? I knew it was an RPF1 in your display pic but I never knew anyone here had some.
 
Every 6-8 months it gets put through the car wash and if it's very lucky i might even get the Dyson out too.
 
The Charade I'm all Meguiars 3-step, all babycare on. The Corolla hasn't been washed since October, but when I do it next, I spray some water on it, dump some soap on it and spray it off, driving off to dry the car..
 
The Pulsar gets a wash about once a month, with Polyglaze car wash, a bucket and a hose. Then gets air dried at 80km/h (have an 80km/h zone at the end of my street). Every 6 months or so it either gets taken to Penrith Plaza Valet/Car Wash for a full detail, inside and out, or if cash is a bit tight, to one of those DIY pressure wash places for a full blow job, body and under the bonnet.

The Skyline is lucky to get washed once every 3 months, but when i do wash it, I realise that I should wash it more often and promise myself that I will...never do though. I have to park it with it's nose facing slightly up hill to wash it though, otherwise the boot jam fills with water. Engine bay is degreased EVERY time I wash it with spray on, hose off degreaser. When i remember, the interior gets a wipe over with Orange Oil (I forget the brand, but it's meant for conditioning leather and vinyl furniture, and gives a nice citrusy smell.

My dailies have never been washed, and when I get another one, it won't be. (I'm thinking another $500 AE82 Seca)
 
You have RPF1's, epic jealously here. Those are my absolute favourite rim in black, you got black right? I knew it was an RPF1 in your display pic but I never knew anyone here had some.

Both the more active Honda guys run RPF1s actually. (Perfect Balance and Keef)
 
Haven't washed my car in a long time. I don't really remember washing it last.

That said, I always keep the inside clean, taking rubbish out etc. And every few weeks spend about half an hour to an hour hoovering the inside and wiping down surfaces with a damp jay cloth.
 
I wash my own car about 1-2 times a month. The wife's car gets a monthly treatment. About every 3-4 months, I'll do a full detail, and spend 4-6 hours washing and waxing both cars, and "spot polish" if I see a weird scratch mark or something similar. I'd spend more time detailing them, but usually the sun sets, and that means it's time to clean up. Years ago, I'd hand wash my car about once a week. But I do not have the time I once had.

At home I mostly use the Meguiar's series of car washing stuff; the Deep Crystal soap, their Gold Class wax, and the ScratchX for the tougher stuff that wax alone won't take out. I use their interior leather cleaner twice a year, and PlastX for the plastic polish like headlamps.

Wet, soap, wet, use a silicone blade squeege to remove some of the standing water/windows, and then dry it all off with an Absorber. Then wax it if time permits; I use elbow grease for a workout, apply wax on a pad, let it sit for a few minutes, and clean it off with a microfiber towels. I use old terry-cloth towels for the wet stuff in dirty places, and old rags to clean anything that accumulates in the engine bay.

I usually just use a wet, soapy towel to clean the interior bits, unless it's dirty/messy; wipe with a static microfiber cloth to accumulate the dust, and wash it accordingly. Scrub the floor mats every few months, and sometimes I go nuts with a toothbrush and cleaning every surface I touch. Once a year, I'll clean every nook and cranny, wiping the grease and dirt away from corners unseen.

I use a wet cloth to get the wheels clean; I' have never needed polish or anything more to wipe the brake dust and make the wheels shiny again on my car. For family that brings over their car, and only wash it once every year or so, then their wheels do stain. Tire dressing (Black Magic, or something like that), when I'm all done. I've suddenly realized that wearing latex gloves saves you that slimy feeling and avoids 15 minutes of post-wash fingernail scrubbing. If i"m going to wax, I'll do that afterwards, so any excess spray or streaks on the paint goes away.

About 3-4 times, a year, I use Rain-X or just wax the outer windows so water beads off the glass, especially during the summer rainy season. One tip I'd like to share is for the smudges on the inside of the front windshield/back glass. For some reason, you can never get them totally smudge or streak-free, which drive me nuts. The trick I figured out is to actually use a light coat of wax, and wipe it away, just like you were polishing the paint. No streaks!

I also picked up a special mitt (similar to this one) with a rough, Velcro-like finish that picks up pet hair; mostly the wife's car has this problem. The dog and cat hair weave themselves into the carpet fibers, making it nearly impossible to get out with a vacuum. This little $2 item does the trick.

Lastly, I confess that actually own one of those car dusters, so every 2 days after a wash, I will dust off the car for 2-3 minutes, if it's dry. After a week, I give, up because the car is "dirty" again. No, it doesn't scratch the paint, but I'm gentle and only use it on light dustings.

Other confessions: I have washed my car in the rain, since sometimes it will rain nearly once a day for two months straight, during the summer rainy season. Just use the free water and use the soap and buckets. Other times, I've washed, and just drove around in the rain to clean off the bubbles. I've washed every rental car I've used but one, and always if I've used someone else's personal car/truck for more than a day.

An advantage of owning a Lexus is that you can get free car washes any time the service department's open. I go in about every 2 months to say hi and chit-chat my former co-workers, and get some cappuccino and danishes. They use an automated wash there, but from my personal experience (my wet and soapy hands and my car), and from those owners who brought in their cars in the past, it doesn't scratch the car's finish (unless you drive into the machine at 20 miles an hour like one bozo did some years ago). It's not a detail, but it is a good wash; they do a quick vacuuming, put a little tire dressing on the donuts, and dry it with a chamois to get most of the wet spots off.

I used to wash my own car at Lexus/Audi, off-the-clock, about once a week (although Audi's automated wash was only half as good). Honda never had any such perk, although you could get a wash for $7 (instead of the customer-pay price of $15). The Honda guys were an outside company, and they were terrible; they were the only place that could make a brand-new car look like it was re-painted by blind body painters at the Pay-N-Spray, so I never took them up on the offer.
 
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I generally try and give the GTI a wash around once a week. For that I just rinse, wash one body panel, rise that, wash it again and repeat all the way around the car. When done, I spend a while hand washing the wheels then dry the whole thing off.

I try to wax it once a month, and I usually do a Rain-X job and clean out the interior then too. I'll also try and start doing some polishing work a couple times a year.

The car hasn't been through a machine wash since we bought it (AFAIK), although my parents said they were washing it a week or so ago so they may have then. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, the car only gets washed when I wash it, so that means it goes a few months between washes when I'm off at college.
 
Using a small bucket (as pictured) gives very little room for any solids to settle in the water. The two-bucket method negates this somewhat, but you're still disturbing any silt on the bottom of the 'dirty' bucket every time you rinse your mitt.

I wouldn't have anywhere to fill up any buckets bigger than those, otherwise I'd have bought bigger buckets ages ago!
 
Mine takes about 40 minutes - done about once a month.

- Spray wheels with brake dust remover.
- hose down car (avoiding wheels)
- apply dish soap to all panels
- hose down car (avoiding wheels)
- brush brake dust off wheels
- hose down wheels
- hose down the car again (keep it wet)

The above takes about 5-10 minutes. Not long at all, and the car is squeaky clean - but it's wet and I've found that it looks like hell when it dries if I'm not careful with what comes after.

- Spray all panels with turtle wax polish. This is the stuff that waxes as you dry.
- Chamois the entire car including all seams and the inside of door jams. If anything started to dry while I was working, I re-wet. <- This is where the time is spent.
- Finally, spray on tire cleaning foam.

That's it. The car looks pretty great when I'm done. The interior doesn't get treatment quite as often.
 
Dish soap's not the best wash solution to use on a car since it strips wax. It might be fine in your case since you wax your car every time. ;)
 
Do you guys have any tips/products for keeping brake dust from building up on the wheels? I only cleaned my wheels yesterday and they're caked already, especially the fronts.

There are waxes specifically formulated for alloy wheels. I have a product called Wheel Wax in my garage, but haven't gotten around to using it yet. (It's winter up here) I am told that they still dust, but will spray off more easily with a hose. I don't know that I'm eager to spend a lot of time waxing wheels, but this spring I'll give it a try.

You can also switch to aftermarket brake pads that are designed to dust LESS. I used to run their Axxis Ultimate street pads on my M3s --they were excellent street/auto-x/light track pads and produced about 50% less dust.


I'll share some waxing/polishing tips in this thread when I get some time to write it all up.


Other confessions: I have washed my car in the rain, since sometimes it will rain nearly once a day for two months straight, during the summer rainy season.

Haha, I did that once too. In Florida, of course.


M
 
I just use a rag to clean the wheels; I'm not going try to polish these, though each one only takes 1 minute to clean out.

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1 minute per keyhole, you mean?

I'm definitely switching to something else for my next set of pads. The BMW stuff is simply ridiculous. Whatever they use on my wife's TSX are amazing - great initial bite even when cold, but quiet, and almost dust-free. I can go weeks without having to do more than spray off the wheels.
 
Okay, maybe two minutes per wheel...I wrap the rag around middle and index finger, and it cleans it all out well, probably since the Toyota brake dust is quite fine and rather light (for this car). I'm also gentle on my brakes. The painted surfaces of the wheel makes for surprisingly smooth cleaning.

Now this is a whole other level of wheel cleanliness.

As for dish soap, I was taught by my dad that liquid Ivory dish soap (regular) was safest to use on a car's finish. We used all the time for car washing when I was young. But I haven't used it on a car since the mid-1990s, since the odor is 99.44%-nasty to me.
 
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No household soaps should be used on a car's paintwork! A PH neautral car shampoo is ideal, even the cheaper car shampoos are good but household cleaners are designed to be VERY tough and I wouldn't want them anywhere near my paintwork, they also strip layers of wax which makes waxing useless.
 
I've never waxed my car. Or any car.

I always thought spending 2 hours washing the car with a bucket of warm water (to stop my hands from freezing) and Mer, then going over with a hose then a leather shammy and squeegying the windows was a long process.

But spending 4 hours washing a car, that's dedication.
 
I wouldn't have anywhere to fill up any buckets bigger than those, otherwise I'd have bought bigger buckets ages ago!

No hose outside?

If not... How about the shower? I filled mine in the shower before I moved. Plus, warm > ice cold. Especially in the winter.
 
No hose outside?

If not... How about the shower? I filled mine in the shower before I moved. Plus, warm > ice cold. Especially in the winter.

I have a hose outside but I use half hot water half cold for the wash bucket, and the hose only sprays feeezing cold water! My shower hasn't worked for over a year :lol:
 
No household soaps should be used on a car's paintwork! A PH neautral car shampoo is ideal, even the cheaper car shampoos are good but household cleaners are designed to be VERY tough and I wouldn't want them anywhere near my paintwork, they also strip layers of wax which makes waxing useless.

While I generally agree with this, there is a strong "Ivory dish soap" mythology in the detailing world and a lot of old timers, like Pupik's dad, swear by the results. They wouldn't do so if it did not produce results.

But one thing I've learned in my research in compounding/polishing/waxing is that paint is different. They differ from one manufacturer to another, differ from one country to another and from one era to another. Something that works on a 30 year old Mercedes with solvent based urethane or enamel paint may not work so well on a brand new Honda painted with the latest water based paint and clearcoat technology.

Detailing is truly one of those cases where YMMV.

That said, I avoid using products not specifically formulated for use on cars. Dish soap can be too aggressive and remove existing wax. The only time you WANT this to happen is if you are prepping you car to be polished and waxed ('sealed').


I got you beat. Try washing four of these:



Gorgeous wheels. But I won't miss keeping them clean.


M
 
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