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The Forgotten Cars Thread
- Thread starter el fayce
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- SpacedustDaddy
But that Lebaron and Sebring convertible. How?
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I don't hate it. Or the early-2000s Thunderbird that actually went into production, for that matter. Cars like this get a bad rap for not being dynamically anything special, but I think there's a lot to be said simply for stylish (subjective, obvs) open-topped cars built for nothing more than cruising along in. The early generations of Thunderbird were exactly that, and so were C1 Corvettes (particularly before they dropped the V8 in).That and:
I'll always like proper sports cars, but I can understand the appeal of open-topped cruisers too.
Chopping the roof off an existing sedan is cheaper and easier than designing a convertible outright.
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- StreetHawk555
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- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
I kept mistaking those for Jags.
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- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Those grills are atrocious! Are the headlights E-Class Merc items?
- 3,726
- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
2008-2009 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
Saw one of these in traffic just the other day, for the first time in many years. Though only produced for two years, this was the raciest Caliber model offered and served as the spiritual successor to the Neon SRT-4. But unlike the Neon, the Caliber SRT-4 is massively forgotten while the former is still pretty relevant, 15 years later, and there's good reason for it.
Let's start with 0-60 times. The Neon SRT-4 was an absolute monster when it came to off-the-line acceleration; it could shoot up to 60mph in just 5.3 seconds, very impressive for a 230hp compact sedan. The Caliber SRT-4, despite making 285hp, did the 0-60 in 6.0 seconds (.7 slower), since not only was it a heavier car, but the 2.4L Chrysler World inline-four simply lacked the responsiveness of the 2.4L EDT used in the Neon.
Also, the competition was much stiffer in 2008 when the Caliber SRT-4 debuted, compared to 2003, the Neon SRT-4's first year. In those days, the Neon annihilated other sporty compacts like the Focus SVT, Sentra SE-R SpecV, Acura RSX, etc, and wasn't too far away from competing with the Lancer EVO, WRX STI, and even muscle cars like the Mustang Mach 1. The Caliber, however, was no longer a class-leader, outshined by the WRX STI hatch, Cobalt SS Turbo, Mazda 3 MPS, and even the Golf R32. This is mostly because of it's below-average handling and torque steer, which was beyond excessive. In terms of high-performance compacts in this era, it was sadly at the bottom of the barrel.
Finally, the whole fit-and finish wasn't too impressive either. Some regarded the Caliber's 5-door wagon-esque shape to be quite ugly, while looks were never an issue for the Neon SRT-4. As with most Chrysler cars of the Daimler-Chrysler era, overall build quality was poor and the interiors were dull and cheap feeling. This held true in the case of the Caliber.
That being said, the Caliber SRT-4 still cool enough of a car in my book even with it's flaws, nearing guilty-pleasure status. The fact that it never reached the same popularity as other cars in it's class only makes it cooler, since it doesn't have the obnoxious fan-following of the Neon SRT-4 and WRX STi. And the fact that most Caliber SRT-4s today have remained stock while most Neon SRT-4s have been modified really says something about it.
Saw one of these in traffic just the other day, for the first time in many years. Though only produced for two years, this was the raciest Caliber model offered and served as the spiritual successor to the Neon SRT-4. But unlike the Neon, the Caliber SRT-4 is massively forgotten while the former is still pretty relevant, 15 years later, and there's good reason for it.
Let's start with 0-60 times. The Neon SRT-4 was an absolute monster when it came to off-the-line acceleration; it could shoot up to 60mph in just 5.3 seconds, very impressive for a 230hp compact sedan. The Caliber SRT-4, despite making 285hp, did the 0-60 in 6.0 seconds (.7 slower), since not only was it a heavier car, but the 2.4L Chrysler World inline-four simply lacked the responsiveness of the 2.4L EDT used in the Neon.
Also, the competition was much stiffer in 2008 when the Caliber SRT-4 debuted, compared to 2003, the Neon SRT-4's first year. In those days, the Neon annihilated other sporty compacts like the Focus SVT, Sentra SE-R SpecV, Acura RSX, etc, and wasn't too far away from competing with the Lancer EVO, WRX STI, and even muscle cars like the Mustang Mach 1. The Caliber, however, was no longer a class-leader, outshined by the WRX STI hatch, Cobalt SS Turbo, Mazda 3 MPS, and even the Golf R32. This is mostly because of it's below-average handling and torque steer, which was beyond excessive. In terms of high-performance compacts in this era, it was sadly at the bottom of the barrel.
Finally, the whole fit-and finish wasn't too impressive either. Some regarded the Caliber's 5-door wagon-esque shape to be quite ugly, while looks were never an issue for the Neon SRT-4. As with most Chrysler cars of the Daimler-Chrysler era, overall build quality was poor and the interiors were dull and cheap feeling. This held true in the case of the Caliber.
That being said, the Caliber SRT-4 still cool enough of a car in my book even with it's flaws, nearing guilty-pleasure status. The fact that it never reached the same popularity as other cars in it's class only makes it cooler, since it doesn't have the obnoxious fan-following of the Neon SRT-4 and WRX STi. And the fact that most Caliber SRT-4s today have remained stock while most Neon SRT-4s have been modified really says something about it.
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- 27,205
- United Kingdom
I've often wondered about the mystique around the Neon SRT-4, and I certainly wonder about that 0-60 time given it's somehow half a second quicker than a modern Civic Type R (US 0-60 times seem to include a one-foot rollout, which is supposedly worth 0.3sec on its own - though the Neon's figure seems optimistic for a 230bhp front-driver even so).
It's hard not to imagine it being at least in part because competition in that segment in the US has never been that strong compared to Europe - in 2003 we had Focus RSs, Civic Type Rs, Megane RSs, Alfa 147 GTAs, Leon Cupra Rs, Audi S3s etc, and the segment only got better in the following years (the Mazda 3 MPS that seems to be hailed as one of the best in the US was typically hugely outclassed in UK tests).
I'd love to drive a Neon SRT-4 myself. And a bunch of the other US performance cars that never made it over here, just to see if they were actually great full stop, or merely great compared to pretty average competition.
It's hard not to imagine it being at least in part because competition in that segment in the US has never been that strong compared to Europe - in 2003 we had Focus RSs, Civic Type Rs, Megane RSs, Alfa 147 GTAs, Leon Cupra Rs, Audi S3s etc, and the segment only got better in the following years (the Mazda 3 MPS that seems to be hailed as one of the best in the US was typically hugely outclassed in UK tests).
I'd love to drive a Neon SRT-4 myself. And a bunch of the other US performance cars that never made it over here, just to see if they were actually great full stop, or merely great compared to pretty average competition.
The Vanishing Boy
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-> The Chevy HHR SS had a similar fate as the Caliber SRT-4/SRT, it was grossly outshined by the Cobalt series.
^ But I will never forget that the HHR SS is Nurbie-Ring tested!
^ But I will never forget that the HHR SS is Nurbie-Ring tested!
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The Neon SRT-4 is remembered because it absolutely slaughtered everything in its price class (this is when the horrible breadvan Civic cost nearly the same, for example), plus a fair amount of things in a price class higher; on top of a car that the magazines already really wanted to like most of the time even with typical Daimler era problems.
The Caliber SRT-4 is forgotten because it absolutely didn't, on top of a car that was easily the worst in its class.
The Caliber SRT-4 is forgotten because it absolutely didn't, on top of a car that was easily the worst in its class.
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Well, in all fairness the HHR was a novelty vehicle so it was never intended to sell as many units per year as the Cobalt. Not only was it awkward looking, but it was an awkward size; too high and boxy to be a traditional compact car but not quite a compact crossover either, like the Equinox. Though both had the same 2.0L turbo-four making 260hp, the HHR SS was slower, uglier, and more expensive of a car than the Cobalt, so of course it would be less popular. Think of it as GM's take on the PT Cruiser GT, equally as dreadful but not as successful.-> The Chevy HHR SS had a similar fate as the Caliber SRT-4/SRT, it was grossly outshined by the Cobalt series.
^ But I will never forget that the HHR SS is Nurbie-Ring tested!
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- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
I can't remember the last time I saw a T100 in the wild, which is a shame because I thought they were handsome enough pickups; definitely more than the dimensionally similar Dakota. The extended cab SR5 topped the line aesthetically for me, though practicality took a hit with that stubby box.
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1987-1991 Sterling 825 and 827
The Sterling 825 (1987-1991, sedan body-style) and 827 (hatchback, 1989-1991) were rebadged Rover 800-Series cars sold exclusively in the United States. These cars were marketed as avant-garde luxury cruisers intended to compete with premium marques such as Cadillac BMW, and Volvo. The only engine available was a 2.5L Honda V6 (hence the name 825); these cars were also similar, appearance-wise and mechanically, to the Honda/Acura Legend. Sales of the 825 were initially strong, but nosedived after the first year; 14,000 were sold in 1987, and less than 5,000 were sold each subsequent year. By 1991, the Sterling marque was completely phased out, and no other Sterling models were made besides the 825/827.
The Sterling 825 (1987-1991, sedan body-style) and 827 (hatchback, 1989-1991) were rebadged Rover 800-Series cars sold exclusively in the United States. These cars were marketed as avant-garde luxury cruisers intended to compete with premium marques such as Cadillac BMW, and Volvo. The only engine available was a 2.5L Honda V6 (hence the name 825); these cars were also similar, appearance-wise and mechanically, to the Honda/Acura Legend. Sales of the 825 were initially strong, but nosedived after the first year; 14,000 were sold in 1987, and less than 5,000 were sold each subsequent year. By 1991, the Sterling marque was completely phased out, and no other Sterling models were made besides the 825/827.
Silver Arrows
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The Chevy Orlando. Maybe not as forgotten (Considering it was only sold in Canada in terms of North America) but still, I don't see many on the road nowadays.
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1999-2002 Mercury Cougar
Saw one driving through my city, for the first time in many moons. The 1999-2002 Cougar was never a strong seller to begin with, but my word these have really disappeared from the streets! Essentially, the final Mercury Cougar (Ford Cougar in Europe) was the spiritual successor to the Probe; it strived to be an economical, mid-size coupe without any sporty pretenses, which in itself was a dying market. It was much smaller and less expensive than any Cougar in history, and was aimed at a different target audience (younger buyers). The two engines available were a 2.0L Zetec four, good for 125hp, and a 2.5L V6 which made 170. Both a manual and automatic transmission was available. Unfortunately, it could not sell as well as it's rivals (Pontiac Grand Prix, Honda Accord Coupe, etc) despite the fact that it was an arguably better looking car; sales were decent in it's first year (40,000 sold) but only 30,000 were sold in 2001 and 2002 combined. This was the last Cougar ever made by Mercury, a total of 34 years for this nameplate.
Saw one driving through my city, for the first time in many moons. The 1999-2002 Cougar was never a strong seller to begin with, but my word these have really disappeared from the streets! Essentially, the final Mercury Cougar (Ford Cougar in Europe) was the spiritual successor to the Probe; it strived to be an economical, mid-size coupe without any sporty pretenses, which in itself was a dying market. It was much smaller and less expensive than any Cougar in history, and was aimed at a different target audience (younger buyers). The two engines available were a 2.0L Zetec four, good for 125hp, and a 2.5L V6 which made 170. Both a manual and automatic transmission was available. Unfortunately, it could not sell as well as it's rivals (Pontiac Grand Prix, Honda Accord Coupe, etc) despite the fact that it was an arguably better looking car; sales were decent in it's first year (40,000 sold) but only 30,000 were sold in 2001 and 2002 combined. This was the last Cougar ever made by Mercury, a total of 34 years for this nameplate.
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- SpacedustDaddy
Yeeeeessssss. The Sterrrrling.1987-1991 Sterling 825 and 827
The Sterling 825 (1987-1991, sedan body-style) and 827 (hatchback, 1989-1991) were rebadged Rover 800-Series cars sold exclusively in the United States. These cars were marketed as avant-garde luxury cruisers intended to compete with premium marques such as Cadillac BMW, and Volvo. The only engine available was a 2.5L Honda V6 (hence the name 825); these cars were also similar, appearance-wise and mechanically, to the Honda/Acura Legend. Sales of the 825 were initially strong, but nosedived after the first year; 14,000 were sold in 1987, and less than 5,000 were sold each subsequent year. By 1991, the Sterling marque was completely phased out, and no other Sterling models were made besides the 825/827.
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Toyota Starlet ReMix
The quirky, forgotten predecessor to the Toyota Voltz (Pontiac Vibe). It featured a slightly higher ride height, 4WD, and plastic cladding. It was only available in Japan, and very few were sold.
The quirky, forgotten predecessor to the Toyota Voltz (Pontiac Vibe). It featured a slightly higher ride height, 4WD, and plastic cladding. It was only available in Japan, and very few were sold.
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Toyota Starlet ReMix
The quirky, forgotten predecessor to the Toyota Voltz (Pontiac Vibe). It featured a slightly higher ride height, 4WD, and plastic cladding. It was only available in Japan, and very few were sold.
I saw one of these once. I thought it was a Cross-Polo at first glance. It even had the exact same colouring as one!
- 29,723
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Eagle Premier. Effectively a Renault 25 and utilizes the PRV V6 mounted longitudinally, ahead of the front axles to drive the front wheels through an Audi or ZF automatic, which explains that rather long nose.
There was also a Dodge Monaco built on the same platform for the 1990 through 1992 model years, once Crysler Corporation acquired AMC.
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I've always found the Dodge Monaco to be interesting in the sense that stylistically, it shared virtually nothing in common with other Dodges; it looks closer to the Audi 5000 than any other car. From what I heard, the Monaco was merely a placeholder car; the Diplomat would be too obsolete to be produced all the way to '92, and the "cab-forward" Intrepid project wasn't finished yet.
Eagle Premier. Effectively a Renault 25 and utilizes the PRV V6 mounted longitudinally, ahead of the front axles to drive the front wheels through an Audi or ZF automatic, which explains that rather long nose.
There was also a Dodge Monaco built on the same platform for the 1990 through 1992 model years, once Crysler Corporation acquired AMC.
- 29,723
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Though it isn't without its drawbacks, I'd argue it is about the simplest configuration to package. Conventional transverse FWD isn't too far off, but the power unit does tend to be quite wide with the gearbox tacked onto the end of the engine.
Though it drove all four wheels, Audi employed largely the same configuration with an inline 5.
VAG has used the longitudinal FWD layout for decades, and you can currently spec a FWD V6 Audi if I'm not mistaken.
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Reminds me of Britain's take on this kind of car - the Rover Streetwise...
Rover gets a lot of criticism for it, but to be fair, this was also the period they turned out the MG ZR, ZS and ZT, which were actually pretty good cars in their own right - so it was more a misjudgement of the market than an eggs-in-one-basket attempt to survive.
In reality, the name was the worst thing about it - somewhere alongside the Mitsubishi Carisma as far as misnomers go. Even if Rover did it ironically, it didn't quite have the image to carry off a name like "Streetwise". The car itself was fine, as there wasn't a great deal wrong with the 25 it was based on other than being a little long in the tooth.
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