The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1 

twitcher
Now that seems like a reach.

My first guess why they're so close together is for logistical reasons. Same reason Australia, China, and Malaysia are 1, 2, 3. Then they go back to Europe for the summer. Canada is the oddball, but the weather window in Canada is very narrow compared to most other places, so July and August are really the only option. After the summer in Europe, back east for Singapore and Japan, then it's the Americas leg of Austin, Mexico, and Brazil before the final round in Abu Dahbi to finish off the season.

How does having the Mexican GP "close" to the U.S. GP sabotage the American event? By "close", do you mean time wise, or geographically?

Geographically speaking, the distance between Austin and Mexico City is about 1200km. Now, compare that with Barcelona to Bhudapest, which is roughly 1500km as the crow flies. If you let that 1500km be the diameter of a circle centred half way between the two cities, you'll find that Monaco, the Redbull Ring, and Monza (and Hockenheim, and Nurburgring, and Imola) are all located within that circle as well. In theory, there's potential to have 8 GP within a 1500km radius...9 if France were to get a GP back.

During the US GP, the sky announcers talked about Mexican fans going to the U.S. GP in 2014 (before there was a Mexican GP). The announcers were surprised to learn that in 2014, only 8% of ticket buyers were from Mexico. The announcers couldn't seem to figure out why the number was so low, based on the popularity of F1 in Mexico, and that a year later, the Mexican GP sold out in less than 2 hours. They just couldn't quite connect the dots...or rather, they couldn't connect the fence posts :P

If you think the Mexican GP hurt attendance numbers at the US GP, then I think you might be slightly out of tune with the current boarder situation between Mexico and the U.S. Jokes aside, I just don't think the idea of going to the US on holiday, coming from Mexico, is a very popular idea these days. I live in Canada, and myself along with a lot of people I know can't be bothered to go to the U.S. because of the hassle at the boarder...I definitely wouldn't be wasting my time with that crap if I was Mexican.
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Time wise I believe. You also have a great point as well about the hassles of border crossing between the 3 neighboring countries of NA. It may well could be a factor but it's one of many. In my opinion the track is a little weird for GT cars but it will do just fine if F1 leaves. It should allow for track days however I believe as this could be a great source of revenue.
 
TenEightyOne
Still, if you look at the last 5 races Tilke-tracks give far more overtakes than non-Tilke-tracks... I hate the stat but it's true :D
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Great point.

Look at a circuit like Catalunya. A classic circuit! It's was nothing but one sweeping corner after the next, and every corner involved either a changing radius or an elevation change, or both. It also has the nice long straight which provides a challenge to car setup.

Now, the general feeling I get is that the average F1 fan does not like Catalunya because it "produces boring races". There have been recent attempts to "modernize" the circuit, namely tightening up the hairpin and adding the chicane. These features were not added to "slow the cars down" as some have suggested. Rather, they were added to provide harder braking zones in an attempt to manufacture over taking.

Due to the sweeping nature of the final sector, when aero dynamics took control of F1, the cars were no longer able to follow each other through that final sector, which led to massive gaps heading onto the main straight, which led to no overtaking into T1.

F1 cars need a point and squirt layout these days, because they simply cannot handle medium to high speed sweepers while running in close proximity to each other.

So on one hand, we have people saying the hate Tilke-droms, and on the other hand, we have people doing patch jobs to classic circuits because they are "boring". There's no way to win.
 
There is. It's called GET RID OF THE DOWNFORCE. Then you have track design freedom. Cars should by mechanical grip limited not aero grip limited.

Downforce is the beginning of the problem, the middle of the problem and the end of the problem.
 
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Tired Tyres
There is. It's called GET RID OF THE DOWNFORCE. Then you have track design freedom. Cars should by mechanical grip limited not aero grip limited.

Downforce is the beginning of the problem, the middle of the problem and the end of the problem.
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You could design all kinds of crazy corners indeed. You could even make normal S-curves again, or 180 degree sweepers. Could easily make up for the decrease in cornering speed, by well, making the corners themselves faster. :lol:

In this generation of super aggressive Senna wannabes, if drivers could get right up to another car's gearbox in a fast sweeper, they would. Of course, if you're close enough to another car, you can overtake almost anywhere.

Let's have a watch of some Formula Ford. It is one of the few motorsports disciplines today where cornering skill is not compromised by another vehicle's dirty air. There is also of course, motorbike racing, and wingless karting.

 
Tired Tyres
There is. It's called GET RID OF THE DOWNFORCE. Then you have track design freedom. Cars should by mechanical grip limited not aero grip limited.

Downforce is the beginning of the problem, the middle of the problem and the end of the problem.
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I agree, although I don't think all of the downforce needs to be removed, just the majority of it. You're right that mechanical grip should be the limiting factor though 👍

I think the idea of harder tires that was mentioned in an article someone around here shared a while back was a good idea too.

Although, from a safety standpoint, I don't know if the FIA would go for low downforce cars racing side by side through high speed sweepers. It would definitely be fun to watch though.
Grand Prix
You could design all kinds of crazy corners indeed. You could even make normal S-curves again, or 180 degree sweepers. Could easily make up for the decrease in cornering speed, by well, making the corners themselves faster. :lol:

In this generation of super aggressive Senna wannabes, if drivers could get right up to another car's gearbox in a fast sweeper, they would. Of course, if you're close enough to another car, you can overtake almost anywhere.

Let's have a watch of some Formula Ford. It is one of the few motorsports disciplines today where cornering skill is not compromised by another vehicle's dirty air. There is also of course, motorbike racing, and wingless karting.

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What a comeback :bowdown: Great overtaking manuevers too. That is a brilliant racing video 👍
 
I don't like people labelling them as Tilke-tracks. I see it more as Grade-1 regs tracks. Take the 2010-Silverstone changes. Two hairpins added and about a mile to the nearest patch of grass. Nothing to do with Tilke.


I miss grass lining the edges of tracks.:indiff:
 
Luke
I don't like people labelling them as Tilke-tracks. I see it more as Grade-1 regs tracks. Take the 2010-Silverstone changes. Two hairpins added and about a mile to the nearest patch of grass. Nothing to do with Tilke.


I miss grass lining the edges of tracks.:indiff:
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What was wrong with the old layout anyway? It seemed safe to me...
 
Unless you want time to stop, I don't see how you could complain about Silverstone. It and Spa are the best examples of how to upgrade a circuit without ruining it. If I had things my way motorsport would stay time locked from 1960-1989, but that's just not going to happen. Some things have to change.

I really like the new sections of Silverstone. A high speed S into double hairpins...doesn't get much more dynamic than that. It's a great spot for overtakes, crossovers, double overtakes, etc.

The most important bits, Luffield, Woodcote, Copse, Maggots, Becketts, Chapel, and Stowe are still in tact.

Vale, Club, and Abby are a little different, but still challenging corners in their own right, especially Abby.

I do agree that some of the run off looks excessive, and I don't like seeing people abuse the limits around Club and Abby, but I don't think that will last forever. There are lot of people unhappy with track limit abuse at circuits around the world, and there are people working on solutions that will hopefully force drivers to respect the circuit or face consequences.

Grass would be nice though. Maybe in another few years, we can have hologram grass all around the track :lol:
 
prisonermonkeys
Why is it that people always think of hologram grass before they think of painting the run-off green?
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I dunno? To me painted run off looks like painted run off. Hologram grass could actually look like grass...or anything your imagination can come up with.

I don't see the paved run offs disapearing any time soon, so it wouldn't hurt to decorate them a little. I like the Austrian flags in the final sector of RBR. Better than blank pavement.
 
I propose smoke machines surrounding the run off. It'll look real moody and sensual. That will sure spice F1 up.
 
I love how you guys know how terrible hologram grass would look before it exists :lol: I was thinking 10-20 years from now, not today. Dumb idea though. Bust out the paint cans, let's just stick with what we know 👍
 
I would be perfectly content with car park run offs IF the first car length off track was grass/gravel/something slippy. It is like that on some tracks, but not enough. Punish them for going off but allow them to continue, best of both worlds.
 
Samus
I would be perfectly content with car park run offs IF the first car length off track was grass/gravel/something slippy. It is like that on some tracks, but not enough. Punish them for going off but allow them to continue, best of both worlds.
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This is pretty much the perfect solution. Just have the first 5 meters grass and after that you can tarmac as much as you want. Prohibits exploiting the track limits and still keeps enough paved run off for serious accidents.

I don't know why the FIA can't think so far.
 
Telstar
This is pretty much the perfect solution. Just have the first 5 meters grass and after that you can tarmac as much as you want. Prohibits exploiting the track limits and still keeps enough paved run off for serious accidents.

I don't know why the FIA can't think so far.
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I think it's an idea that has some possibility, but might not be as simple as it seems.

The problem is the transition. On the track-to-grass transition, drivers will drop tires over the edge, and this will create a rut, which is a safety concern (I'm trying to think like the FIA). The transition from grass to paved run off is the other problem. It would need to be completely perfect, which is difficult, because dirt under the grass will settle over time. If there is a lip from the grass to the runoff, you have a recipe for disaster.

Grass would also provide a more difficult challenge in terms of controlling water flow on and around the track.

I think it would also increase maintenence costs for the tracks.

Basically you need grass which grows well to keep dirt and dust down, drains water well, and maintains perfect grade over time. Might have to talk to some golf course people :lol:
 
twitcher
I love how you guys know how terrible hologram grass would look before it exists :lol: I was thinking 10-20 years from now, not today. Dumb idea though. Bust out the paint cans, let's just stick with what we know 👍
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Except holograms exist already, are used in various things and look awful. They'd also be useless and be a waste of power and resources.
 
GTPorsche
Except holograms exist already, are used in various things and look awful. They'd also be useless and be a waste of power and resources.
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Pong wasnt exactly visually stunning when it first came out either. Graphics have come a long way since then.

I know that holograms exist today, and I aslo know it is a relatively new technology. If you read my posts again, I said holograms in 10-20 years from now. It was a tongue in cheek suggestion as well. But nope, here comes Mr. Serious shooting down the idea because he knows holograms look stupid and knows they'll never evolve or improve.

I guess asphalt is the only substance that can be used as a flat run off, and paint is the only way to decorate it.
 
GTPorsche
Well, I don't see you coming up with any actual physical ideas.
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wow are you ever an uptight person :rolleyes:

I did come up with a physical idea

Holograms

A device which projects a hologram is a physical object. That was my idea.

You have proposed no ideas of your own, shot it down, based on:
GTPorsche
Except holograms exist already, are used in various things and look awful.
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While you may be correct that they don't look amazing today, I pointed out that my idea was more looking to the future, based on a projection that hologram technology may improve in the next 10-20 years (based off what we have witnessed with computer technology in general over the last 20 years)

Now, you may have a crystal ball and may know that the technology won't go anywhere, but I am more than willing to bet against that.


You also added these jems
They'd also be useless
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This doesn't even make any sense.
How is something fulfilling the role it was designed for, useless? I think your still emotional from the whole thread title thing and looking to pick apart my idea any way you can, yet your failing to back up your arguement with reason, never mind facts.

and be a waste of power and resources.
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Again, so much short sightedness here. While holograms may be an energy intensive tech today, there's no limit on the development towards reducing the consumption of energy. For an example of this, compare an old lightbulb to an LED.

Then there's the energy source itself. You could have wind turbines near the track (already exists at Zolder), or you could use solar energy. You probably think those technologies are stupid as well eh?

So far the most popular suggestion has been grass. Grass is not exactly cheap to maintain on a large scale. While grass may not need electricity, it does need water. That's not an issue in some locations, but it is in others.




So do you have any brilliant physical ideas of your own, or are you just going to be a negative Nancy and pick apart other people's?
 
Yet you keep bringing up holograms, which aren't physical things. Yes, they have projectors, but you have to place them in an area where they are of no danger of being hit, then you have to have the power supplies and the wiring running to them.

twitcher
I guess asphalt is the only substance that can be used as a flat run off, and paint is the only way to decorate it.
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Yet you offer no alternative to this.

"Holograms" is not a solution to anything.
 
Do we really have nothing better to discuss than the practical applications of sci-fi technology to solve a problem that could be done just as easily with a trip to Bunnings for a few tins of green paint?
 
prisonermonkeys
Do we really have nothing better to discuss than the practical applications of sci-fi technology to solve a problem that could be done just as easily with a trip to Bunnings for a few tins of green paint?
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It looks that way. Flat, green, hard substances (absinthe aside) must be portrayed in a Star Wars fashion within the next thirty years or I'm out. In fact... if within that time the teams aren't building 500-mph levitating canyon racers then they've failed us all horribly.
 
twitcher
The problem is the transition. On the track-to-grass transition, drivers will drop tires over the edge, and this will create a rut, which is a safety concern (I'm trying to think like the FIA). The transition from grass to paved run off is the other problem. It would need to be completely perfect, which is difficult, because dirt under the grass will settle over time. If there is a lip from the grass to the runoff, you have a recipe for disaster.
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This is not a problem for me.

How often do drivers drop a tyre over the edge? Just rarely, F1 drivers are good enough to stay on track regularly. And they don't get off enough to create a rute which could cause significant problems. Just look at all the other not-so-modern tracks on the calendar with no all-tarmacked run off. Nothing harmful happens there either.

And talking about grass-to-paving transition, you are well off the track by then. After all, it is not meant to be driven on there. You are looking for trouble if you get out there and don't slow down.

Grass would also provide a more difficult challenge in terms of controlling water flow on and around the track.

I think it would also increase maintenence costs for the tracks.
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Water flow problems might be possible. But unless there is torrential rain coming down like in Austin, I don't see any issues there, either. There is even the benefit that water can seep through the ground there and so it won't trickle over the track.

Increased costs might be possible, too, but I think they will get lost in all the other things that have to be maintained around a race track. However in nowadays F1, every penny is worth it to save looking at those horrendous costs the tracks have to pay to be even eligible to host a F1 race.


By the way, you can notice some of those grass verges between track and run off at the current race in Interlagos. Interesting to see how those turn out to be and if they can really cause some problems.
 
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GTPorsche
It's astroturf at Interlagos between the track and the runoff. I remember last year during one of the practices where a section of it got loose.

Also, source: http://www.astroturfgrandprix.com/flooring-GP-race-track-safety/en/p-3
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In particular, I'm talking about the outside of turn 1, the outside of turn 5 (more like between T4 and T5 after the kerbs end) or on the right hand side while breaking for turn 12. Is this really astroturf there? Looks very natural to me.
 
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