The general In****ification, vampire capitalism, everything wrong with consumerism etc thread

[Eunos_Cosmo]

As broad of a subject as this might be, particularly in this subforum, I am mainly talking about material goods. A huge driver of it is the absolute wild west of Amazon which has come to dominate consumer habits in the west. I have come to dread shopping for anything on Amazon because even after you've waded through the seemingly endless amount of exactly the same products with the exact same product photos sold by different alphabet soup brand names in a nearly incomprehensible and inconsistent web interface, what you get in the end is very likely to be total garbage, if not actually hazardous. But it's not just Amazon...I don't expect clothing items purchased from basically any retail chain to last more than a few wash cycles before being rendered unwearable.



The accelerating ****ness to me feels like it permeates every level of our consumer society. I have come to the point that, unless I go far out of my way to find some brand that has gone to great lengths to differentiate itself on quality in a way I find actually believable, I just assume whatever I'm buying will be ****. If I buy a powertool at home depot, I can only be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't fall apart within a few months. Light bulbs with "15 year" lifespans I typically get a year out of, etc I do feel like the Pandemic and resulting supply chain issues have made the ****ification more prevalant, but I would be curious to know other people's perspectives and/or experience.

(I was hesitant about titling the thread the way I did, but wanted to express/convey the bleakness of it all, mods feel free to change if you feel it's not appropriate)

 

[GranTurNismo]

As far as clothing goes, it seems to be a natural consequence of name brand clothing being too expensive for the average consumer. This gives way to lower quality, "fast fashion" alternatives like Shein, Wish.com, and the plethora of unknown brands on Amazon aforementioned. You're getting essentially the same general style as products offered by name brands but at a much lower price and material quality. It's no secret that all of these, as well as thrift shopping/vintage clothes, is ever-popular with people my age. Good new clothing is just not cheap.

 

[Joey D]

With clothes, one of the issues as to why stuff wears out so quickly is how we wash it. So many people just throw clothes in the wash and don't even bother to read the tag to see what they're supposed to do. You're also not supposed to wash certain things all that frequently, specifically jeans. And when you do wash certain things, sometimes you're not supposed to put them in the dryer. I mean I'm guilty of this because I don't want to spend all day doing laundry, but it does contribute to the break down of our fabrics.

In addition to the frequency of washing is also the chemicals we use during the washing process. Some of the detergents and soaps are tough on fabrics and will contribute to the breakdown of the fibers. Fabric softener is a big one for this and something you really shouldn't use.

There still are monumentally cheap things out there though, but in the case of clothes if you want them to last longer, read the tag and learn what the symbols mean.

 

[Exorcet]

As broad of a subject as this might be, particularly in this subforum, I am mainly talking about material goods. A huge driver of it is the absolute wild west of Amazon which has come to dominate consumer habits in the west.

This is something I've thought about discussing but never got around to posting, but I barely use Amazon. In fact I don't think very highly of online shopping. It's so much worse than visiting a physical store, mainly because you can't inspect the product. I don't care what advertising thinks it's trying to accomplish, nothing matters but the product itself, and a purchase made without being able to access the quality of the product will always seem dubious to me. Online buying has a few benefits in particular situations, but I can't see it ever being the primary method of shopping I use.

The accelerating *ness to me feels like it permeates every level of our consumer society. I have come to the point that, unless I go far out of my way to find some brand that has gone to great lengths to differentiate itself on quality in a way I find actually believable, I just assume whatever I'm buying will be *. If I buy a powertool at home depot, I can only be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't fall apart within a few months. Light bulbs with "15 year" lifespans I typically get a year out of, etc I do feel like the Pandemic and resulting supply chain issues have made the ****ification more prevalant, but I would be curious to know other people's perspectives and/or experience.

Moving on to the topic of this thread though, I don't feel like everything is terrible. I usually take a long time to buy anything. Even $5-$10 items that I don't plan to use often. I like to research and compare a lot, and if nothing meets my standards I don't part with my money. What I have noticed is that lower cost items tend to give me the most problems and as time has gone on I've been more and more willing to spend more to avoid the lowest quality products, although I'm well aware that price and quality are not the same and that price can be used as a trap to attract those seeking quality. The products that I buy that aren't lowest budget tend to last and work well. I can't even really recall anything in the past few years failing catastrophically on me if it wasn't already quite a few years old and heavily used.

With clothes, one of the issues as to why stuff wears out so quickly is how we wash it.

This reminds me of something else I do. Read the manual. For everything. Even if it means the first time I'm using a product I'm taking 10x as long to do a simple task, I'm going to make sure it's by the book.

 

[Blitz24]

With clothes, one of the issues as to why stuff wears out so quickly is how we wash it. So many people just throw clothes in the wash and don't even bother to read the tag to see what they're supposed to do. You're also not supposed to wash certain things all that frequently, specifically jeans. And when you do wash certain things, sometimes you're not supposed to put them in the dryer. I mean I'm guilty of this because I don't want to spend all day doing laundry, but it does contribute to the break down of our fabrics.

In addition to the frequency of washing is also the chemicals we use during the washing process. Some of the detergents and soaps are tough on fabrics and will contribute to the breakdown of the fibers. Fabric softener is a big one for this and something you really shouldn't use.

There still are monumentally cheap things out there though, but in the case of clothes if you want them to last longer, read the tag and learn what the symbols mean.

You have no idea how many times I've read the symbols and asked my family member if they are certain I should be putting this article of clothing in the washer/dryer. Then they get mad at me when the clothing isn't ready to be folded.

 

[GranTurNismo]

You have no idea how many times I've read the symbols and asked my family member if they are certain I should be putting this article of clothing in the washer/dryer. Then they get mad at me when the clothing isn't ready to be folded.

Reminds me of all the times as a kid I'd get yelled at by mom for just throwing my clothes in the "warsher" as she called it without looking to see what's what, yet I was still careless. She had a point it turns out.

 

[Blitz24]

Reminds me of all the times as a kid I'd get yelled at by mom for just throwing my clothes in the "warsher" as she called without looking to see what's what, yet I was still careless. She had a point it turns out.

Do not wash wool. That has to be dry cleaned.

Then again, as Mitch Hedberg put it, "that means it's dirty".

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

In the latest chapter of in****tification (which I'm changing the tread title to), Recaro, probably the single most recognizable name for automotive seats has filed for declared bankruptcy just 4 years after it was acquired by a private equity firm.

 

[Keef]

Speaking of consumerism, I'm getting new credit cards sent to me from my credit union.

I've been informed that because I paid off and haven't been using my credit cards - about $20k worth of credit - the bank is soon going to shut down my credit accounts. That's a bummer because not only would it cut off a huge emergency cushion but also destroy my credit score. Not only does getting a credit card hurt your score but ending one does also, and what happens in between nobody ****ing knows but ultimately you're going to spend your entire life watching your score go up 5 points per year only to drop by 50+ if you make a single mistake. It is an absolute scam and it's so easy to doom your entire financial life before you're 20 years old. The fact that this system isn't taught in detail during high school is also a scam.

Best I can do is pay for my $6 per month local newspaper subscription to keep the card alive and provide zero interest dollars to the bank.

 

[Duke]

Things like power tools, etc are not as good any more because consumers have spent decades proving that they shop on price first, feature list second, and quality a distant third the vast majority of the time.

And if you’re going to chase this year’s fashion, there’s no reason to pay a lot since it will be out of date long before it is worn out. HINT: the entire fashion industry is a scam from top to bottom.

 

[Blitz24]

In the latest chapter of in****tification (which I'm changing the tread title to), Recaro, probably the single most recognizable name for automotive seats has filed for declared bankruptcy just 4 years after it was acquired by a private equity firm.

That's what these firms do. That's what did in Toys R Us among others. I will be stunned if GameStop doesn't go the same route eventually.

 

[Exorcet]

Best I can do is pay for my $6 per month local newspaper subscription to keep the card alive and provide zero interest dollars to the bank.

Honestly there is no reason not to use a credit card for everything. Possible exception being the sellers that pass the card fee on to you, though even in that case your cashback might cover it.

Cards make it easy to track spending, can reduce the price of items, have low fraud risk, and if you're managing your finances it should be extremely difficult to go build any debt.

 

[Keef]

Honestly there is no reason not to use a credit card for everything. Possible exception being the sellers that pass the card fee on to you, though even in that case your cashback might cover it.

Cards make it easy to track spending, can reduce the price of items, have low fraud risk, and if you're managing your finances it should be extremely difficult to go build any debt.

They aren't rewards cards, they're simply old original cards I got years ago and don't need to use anymore. They may be low interest but that means they're only really good for emergency funds. I only ever actually use cards that offer rewards for my daily expenses.

But apparently you're still forced to use them occasionally or else they'll get shut down.

 

[Exorcet]

They aren't rewards cards, they're simply old original cards I got years ago and don't need to use anymore. They may be low interest but that means they're only really good for emergency funds. I only ever actually use cards that offer rewards for my daily expenses.

But apparently you're still forced to use them occasionally or else they'll get shut down.

Understandable in that case. Agreed that the credit score system is dumb in a few ways.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I got a notice from my bank that my checking account was going to become dormant due to inactivity. The inactivity part wasn't true, it was just that there were no "manual" transactions. Of course the notice mentioned that this was all for my protection.

 

[Duke]

But apparently you're still forced to use them occasionally or else they'll get shut down.

If you call them and ask them to keep it open, that's probably good enough.

But if it is never used, they're never making any money on it, and it is costing them (something) to maintain it.

 

[Famine]

in****tification

En****tification.

 

[Blitz24]

I got a notice from my bank that my checking account was going to become dormant due to inactivity. The inactivity part wasn't true, it was just that there were no "manual" transactions. Of course the notice mentioned that this was all for my protection.

I had a retirement account like that. I was working an internship 18 years ago and for some reason, the company put me on an investment plan that I didn't:
A. Sign up for.
B. Have any credentials to actually do anything with.

Eventually they started charging me maintenance fees because I wasn't putting in any money (I mean, no idea how I can if I had no access to it) and I spoke to their legal department saying what they did was incredibly stupid and a waste of time. They finally decided to cut their losses after numerous requests and sent me $31 (which was what the account had after taxes). I still don't know why they did this.

 

[Danoff]

As broad of a subject as this might be, particularly in this subforum, I am mainly talking about material goods. A huge driver of it is the absolute wild west of Amazon which has come to dominate consumer habits in the west. I have come to dread shopping for anything on Amazon because even after you've waded through the seemingly endless amount of exactly the same products with the exact same product photos sold by different alphabet soup brand names in a nearly incomprehensible and inconsistent web interface, what you get in the end is very likely to be total garbage, if not actually hazardous. But it's not just Amazon...I don't expect clothing items purchased from basically any retail chain to last more than a few wash cycles before being rendered unwearable.

I don't have this experience. I'm pretty careful with reviews, including paying attention to which ones are fake. I've had a lot of luck with Amazon. I have a bunch of long lasting products that are some of my favorites that are from amazon. I have a TV in my house that's from amazon. Still works. I use these amazing portable batteries from amazon, they're awesome. I could go on and on with products from amazon that have been impossible to find in stores and are just perfect and last forever.

Sure, I get a few that are no good. Mostly I return those are write it off as something that would have happened from a store anyway.

I generally don't buy clothing from amazon because it's too difficult to see how something fits from an image. I only do it if I know exactly the brand and specific item I want.

In fact I don't think very highly of online shopping. It's so much worse than visiting a physical store, mainly because you can't inspect the product.

That's important for clothing. But for most items I find a physical store worse. You can't find reviews as easily, and there aren't as many options, and usually at a higher price point for the same thing.

Funny thing, I was about to shop for something on amazon when I came here to read what you folks were writing. And having thought about it, I'm still going to amazon because I don't think there's a store in my state that carries this item.

I bought a bouncy castle for my kids from amazon. It's great. The blower still works after much use. Where would I even find that locally? Dunno. But my kids have loved it. I bought a printer from amazon, it's the same one I would buy at a store. Charging cables, video game systems, keyboards, server parts. My entire server rack, switch, patch panels, cable modem, computer chassis, motherboards, CPUs, monitors, all of it is from amazon. All of it is bulletproof. My kids rooms have furniture from amazon that looks great, was easy to assemble, and hasn't deteriorated in any way.

Honestly, I have a hard time naming a shopping outlet that's more positively impactful in my life. In the process of typing that, one of my computers went to sleep and I wiggled a mouse to keep it awake, the mouse was from amazon and it's my favorite mouse ever.

Edit:

The soap dispenser in my shower. Love that thing, still stuck to the wall. Never would have found that anywhere.

 

[Blitz24]

I don't have this experience. I'm pretty careful with reviews, including paying attention to which ones are fake. I've had a lot of luck with Amazon. I have a bunch of long lasting products that are some of my favorites that are from amazon. I have a TV in my house that's from amazon. Still works. I use these amazing portable batteries from amazon, they're awesome. I could go on and on with products from amazon that have been impossible to find in stores and are just perfect and last forever.

Sure, I get a few that are no good. Mostly I return those are write it off as something that would have happened from a store anyway.

I generally don't buy clothing from amazon because it's too difficult to see how something fits from an image. I only do it if I know exactly the brand and specific item I want.




That's important for clothing. But for most items I find a physical store worse. You can't find reviews as easily, and there aren't as many options, and usually at a higher price point for the same thing.

Funny thing, I was about to shop for something on amazon when I came here to read what you folks were writing. And having thought about it, I'm still going to amazon because I don't think there's a store in my state that carries this item.

I bought a bouncy castle for my kids from amazon. It's great. The blower still works after much use. Where would I even find that locally? Dunno. But my kids have loved it. I bought a printer from amazon, it's the same one I would buy at a store. Charging cables, video game systems, keyboards, server parts. My entire server rack, switch, patch panels, cable modem, computer chassis, motherboards, CPUs, monitors, all of it is from amazon. All of it is bulletproof. My kids rooms have furniture from amazon that looks great, was easy to assemble, and hasn't deteriorated in any way.

Honestly, I have a hard time naming a shopping outlet that's more positively impactful in my life. In the process of typing that, one of my computers went to sleep and I wiggled a mouse to keep it awake, the mouse was from amazon and it's my favorite mouse ever.

Edit:

The soap dispenser in my shower. Love that thing, still stuck to the wall. Never would have found that anywhere.

LL Bean and some other clothing brands have almost always been catalog/online only. There have been very few stores to go to for them. I only recall one even existing in my area.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'd need to take the rest of the week off work to compose my rant for this thread, which I'm not going to do.

I'll just say that whilst some of the benefits of using the internet to make purchases (be it eBay, Amazon or anything else including food, takeaways or similar) are undeniable, so are the primary, secondary and tertiary negative impacts for society, and to a degree, the planet - which are both frequently overlooked, because of personal greed at a number of levels.

 

[Danoff]

undeniable, so are the primary, secondary and tertiary negative impacts for society, and to a degree, the planet - which are both frequently overlooked, because of personal greed at a number of levels.

So if I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it's greedy? If I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it harms the planet? Walk me through it.

 

[Exorcet]

That's important for clothing. But for most items I find a physical store worse. You can't find reviews as easily, and there aren't as many options, and usually at a higher price point for the same thing.

Online has some definite advantages. Variety is a big one since store space is going to be limited. Yet I still find myself wanting to get my hands on what I'm buying in some way before I decide to spend the money. Even for something like a mouse it's nice to try it first. How weighty is it? Is the laser precise or jittery? How does the scroll wheel feel? Are you only looking for a threshold of good enough or comparing those traits to a previous mouse? There are a lot of big and small details that can be hard to communicate through a screen or a text review. Of course in store shopping has its own limitations. Most stuff is in packaging so you may not be able to thoroughly trial a product. Even if you have complete access to the product, the in store environment might not be the best place to evaluate it. Overall though I do like the ability to interact and I think it's genuinely helpful more often than not. Definitely helpful enough that if I can find something physically I'll tend to buy it there rather than order it.

negative impacts for society, and to a degree, the planet

There are some potential upsides. One loaded delivery van could be doing the job of many lightly loaded cars. I'm not sure how much retailers care about that though as the last time I tracked a big online order I had different items delivered on different days. I would have gladly waited an extra few days if it meant less gas used for the delivery.

 

[Pupik]

En****tification.

They never expect the Spanish In****itification.

As per clothing; I'm generally pretty cheap in my buying habits, and actually haven't noticed a downturn in long-term usage, even if the fit-and-finish isn't always quite perfect.

 

[MatskiMonk]

So if I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it's greedy?

Not in every instance, there are clearly other factors that may play into your decision and the trigger points for making that decision will vary from person to person, distant selling has always had a place. Perhaps greed isn't the right word - unreasonable preference towards personal benefit or self importance, often (not exclusively) financially - perhaps that's more what I mean. I don't suppose it answers your question suitably so I'll just reiterate, my feelings on this are fairly wide-ranging, as I say, in order to explain my position properly would be a 4000 word essay.

If I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it harms the planet?

Again, situational but complex. Assuming that is the scenario (and not that you're buying something you wouldn't otherwise have bought had it not been cheap and convenient) to me, the notion of have something delivered that I could buy locally is a bit mental, but my 'local' is likely different to yours, I live in walkable town. If you have to get to a local ugly-as-**** strip mall, then walk across parking lot after parking lot, and 4-6 lane roads, because everything's separated by acres and acres of asphalt dedicated to cars, you're going to have a different opinion. It's easier and more pleasant for me to keep my money in a 'local/regional/national' economy.

There are some potential upsides.

There's lots of upsides, I'm not saying it's all bad.

I would have gladly waited an extra few days if it meant less gas used for the delivery.

I obviously rarely buy online, but I've had multiple item baskets on amazon before and IIRC you can stipulate delivery all together, which at least might cut down on the delivery vans choking up your neigbourhood throwing bottles of piss out of the window, but logistically if the goods then require an additional journey to get to the local hub for collation, I don't suppose it ultimately helps much.

 

[Meythia]

So if I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it's greedy? If I buy something from amazon instead of a local store it harms the planet? Walk me through it.

It really depends on the way Amazon operates.
If you buy on Amazon, it might happen to be the same store you could have bought locally, so no difference on this end.
If you buy locally, the transport emissions fall on you, propably more efficient because other means of transport are used than a delivery van, but could also be worse depending on other factors.
But the things that are not immedialty visible to online purchases are the routes that your products takes around the globe and which warehouses are used.
Amazon has warehouses to speed up delivery into each customer region by density.
The local shop of whatever name has his own supply chain which hopefully is optimized for transportation in between the chain and usually should be slightly better.
Also the question of package is usually not in favour of Amazon as they have their own cardboardboxes around the products original package = additional waste, additional weight = additional emmisions by productions and transport.
And then it also depends on what product you are purchasing to begin with, because if there is no local solution and you would have to go "far" to get it yourself, Amazon absolutely can be the greener solution.
Or depending on how their delivery chain is established, they can be greener.
For example: when I order movie discs, the end deliver will be by our local post service and they either use bicycles or BEV vans with solar powered loading on the post service station. This is definitly better than me driving to any store.
But when I just want to get some everyday stuff, toothpaste, soap, clothing, this is in a 3km radius of where I live and I can just do that by my 2 feet (could also for movie discs, but I cant deny being lazy for single product purchases).

 

[TheCracker]

As much as i want to hate Amazon - for their (UK) tax avoidence and their worker's working conditions, as well as the way they treat sellers. My step brother reluctantly sells physical products through them, and much of my wifes income comes through selling ebooks through their Kindle store - so i know Amazon are terrible in that regard. My own personal experience of them as a consumer has generally been very positive. As much as that irritates me to admit.

Buying stuff through them, navigating their seemingly endless stock of everything, is an art in itself. But once you know the pitfalls, it just makes life easier. I realised last Sunday evening that we were running low on dog food. I popped on Amazon, on my phone, and had ordered a bag of it within two minutes. It was on my doorstep before 10am the next morning. The alternative would have been to drive a seven mile round trip across stop-start city traffic on my lunch hour to the nearest stockist of their food where they may or may not even had had it in stock. Even then they're a national chain, so i wouldn't be supporting local shops anyway.

If i think back at some of my well-used Amazon purchases, i wouldn't even know where else i could have bought those items from - and that's as someone who lives in a pretty big city where most big stores are within reach.

 

[Meythia]

i wouldn't even know where else i could have bought those items from - and that's as someone who lives in a pretty big city where most big stores are within reach.

So you have been conditioned to be a loyal Amazon customer and ignore other options from the first thought of "need"

 

[Famine]

Buying stuff through them, navigating their seemingly endless stock of everything, is an art in itself.

They are increasingly becoming difficult to separate from Chinese drop-shipping concerns though.

If there's a (non-specialist) thing you want, there's usually the real one and eight identical-looking items - one of which is promoted above the others - that ship from China and have brand name comprised of eight random but high-Scrabble-scoring letters.

 

[Pupik]

high-Scrabble-scoring letters.

JQX, that was great.