The genetic of a great race driver

[Alpha Cipher]

I'd abort a lap if I missed a certain line through a corner (especially if it was in the first sector). Maybe LIGHTNING doesn't need to do it (abort laps) as much as I do, but not believing he's choosing the lines he chooses at all is a bit of a stretch IMO.

I do this waaaayyyy too often. If it's in the second or third sector and I'm down by a few hundreths, I accept it and continue. But if my first sector's any kind of red... restart
There's just something about the first sector that ruins the whole flow of the rest of the lap if you don't give your best

 

[Krypton78]

Here is my thinking.

It looks like there are interpretation differences regarding the terms "talent", "biological" and so on, so I'll try not to use them.

I divide the personal speed of a sim-driver into two groups of which it is consisting:

Final Speed = Speed gained of Group 1 skills + Speed gained of Group 2 skills

Group 1:
skills based on knowledge, meaning that its possible to learn and improve them by training/ time investment and observing the fast drivers. I tried to list the points with some examples:

A) Tracks:
-braking points
-the correct line of a track

B) Cars:
-how to brake/ steer/ throttle cars with FF, MR, FH, 4x4,
-knowledge about the differences of race cars with downforce and road cars without downforce

C) Race Experience:
-learning how to decide in all the various situations, example: beeing with two others in a corner
-anticipation of the other drivers
-menthal strength, learning to keep calm under pressure
-managing of tires and fuel
-general race strategy

Group 2:
skills based on atributes, which are indeed biological/ genetic determined, so its still possible to train and improve them also but there is a genetic cap/ limit to it:

A) Reaction/ Reflex time
consisting of:
Time of realizing envoirenmet changes (example: I realize I am now at the braking point) or you can call it personal sampling rate or detection interval when looking or watching a moving object/ the envoirenment when you move yourself. I don't know how to explain it to be honest
+
Time of acting: moving your arms, fingers/ legs

B) Body controling accuracy: How small the difference are of what you want and what actually happens with your arms, fingers, legs when you move them to make an action


Group 1 is limited absolutely not individual. That means, after a certain point, there is no more speed gaining from that kind of knowledge. After some years of sim-racing with true effort, there is not that much to learn what will make you significant faster. And that means, every experienced driver has the same amount of "speed" from Group 1 in his overall final speed/ performance.

Group 2 has a cap also, but this is individual, and my thinking is, it has the most impact and seperates the aliens from us.

 

[DJShadesUK]

beeing with two others

Eh?

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

You don't have to train a greyhound how to outrun a bulldog.

Like I said, machines and technology bypass our genetic traits. It takes thousands of years for one genetic variation to occur (the last one known one was the breathing capabilities of the sherpas) yet racing has only existed for the past 122 years. In many ways we are all on the same playing field until mutants start gaining drastically different evolutionary traits to race or we breed people for racing.

At this point, genetic advantages are minor gains in focus, fine motor skills, reaction time, and stress management that aren't that far ahead of the curve of the general population.

 

[Groundfish]

Uh, talent is real. Irl that’s been my experience. This new age stuff about 11,000 hours and everyone can be great is just untrue.
Some people can practice an activity forever and be average. It’s just the way things are.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Uh, talent is real. Irl that’s been my experience. This new age stuff about 11,000 hours and everyone can be great is just untrue.
Some people can practice an activity forever and be average. It’s just the way things are.

How did talent affect you in real life?

 

[TonyJZX]

At this point, genetic advantages are minor gains in focus, fine motor skills, reaction time, and stress management that aren't that far ahead of the curve of the general population.

I'm not sure of that. I feel like I'm a decent driver... ie. I started decades ago on manual rwd cars w/ carburettors and no electronics.

But drivers even at a relatively low level like a Formula Ford driver would be so far ahead of my skills its not even comparable.

Drivers that everyone thinks are hopeless like the Maldonados etc. have superhuman driving abilites compared to 99.99% of the population.

 

[ramurel]

Yeah, faster brain connections, a better concentration, the ability to find solutions faster and better under certain level of stress, these kind of stuffs are different from one person to another, these are built inside. It's science proved !
We can take, for example, that VR motion sickness. Can't train it or get rid of it with practice, you just have it or not! Some people don't tolerate it at all, there are levels of it. I, for example, can't drive on Mount Panorama at night in VR , especially in the middle sector, I get terrible headaches, but for everything else I'm ok!

 

[Groundfish]

How did talent affect you in real life?

My gosh so many ways. I’ve played a lot of sports and that’s where you see the athletic side of it. Some folks will learn much much faster than others, movement is more efficient from the get go...higher ceiling etc...I was trained from a young age and even with 4-5 hours a day working out and practicing etc playing semi pro I realized I just couldn’t achieve the level required to make a living in my sport. When you get into a deeper pool it can be mind boggling what’s out there.
It’s like racing. There will always be someone better.
That’s just the athletic side. As we all know some folks have intellectual gifts as well. Good friend had a memory whereby he could read a school text and recall almost totally perfect after one read. He is an md now.
Not everyone can learn to do that by practice.
Having kids and watching them from very small, you can see things happen.
I mean I could go on and on, but what I have experienced makes the issue absolutely cut and dried for me.
Cheers

 

[Alpha Cipher]

My gosh so many ways. I’ve played a lot of sports and that’s where you see the athletic side of it. Some folks will learn much much faster than others, movement is more efficient from the get go...higher ceiling etc...I was trained from a young age and even with 4-5 hours a day working out and practicing etc playing semi pro I realized I just couldn’t achieve the level required to make a living in my sport. When you get into a deeper pool it can be mind boggling what’s out there.
It’s like racing. There will always be someone better.
That’s just the athletic side. As we all know some folks have intellectual gifts as well. Good friend had a memory whereby he could read a school text and recall almost totally perfect after one read. He is an md now.
Not everyone can learn to do that by practice.
Having kids and watching them from very small, you can see things happen.
I mean I could go on and on, but what I have experienced makes the issue absolutely cut and dried for me.
Cheers

I'm sorry to say this, I don't mean to disrespect at all, but don't you think you just gave up too early? Being able to play competitively from a young age, being able to practice properly, and being able to play at a level that can push you further, you had opportunities, and great ones at that. Maybe if you just pushed a little bit further, and maybe if you played it longer, if you didn't give up a bit too early, who knows what could've happened

As for the mental side, I have a classmate that basically sleeps on 90% of his classes, the other 10% he doesn't because the teachers are stricter and he gets reprimanded. But he's one of the honor rolls and has grades equivalent to straight As. While talent might be a factor here because of how his brain is wired, the more amazing thing he can do is how good he is at handling this talent. He knows he's an auditory learner; the tests say so, and thinks so as well. So what he did is he learned this sleeping thing where he's no actually asleep, but just half asleep where he can still hear what's going on around him. So literally, while asleep, he can listen to the teachers
It doesn't stop there either. Whenever he studies for tests he'd always create mnemonics at every chance he could. And he gets creative with it. Within an hour or two of studying he'd already be ready for the test. And I think that's what makes him amazing- the way he's able to be efficient at what he has

 

[DJShadesUK]

@Alpha Cipher : I'm confused. Are you arguing for or against genetics? First you're telling someone they maybe could have reached the upper echelons of their chosen sport if only he tried harder, like genetics doesn't matter, and then recount a tale of how someones brain is wired (meaning its genetically "wired" differently to most other people). Back in my younger years, in high school, some kids were as dumb as a box of frogs - there was a reason there were special classes for them just to be able to get absolute basic maths - no amount of training would have ever turned them into the next Einstein. Similarly no amount of training would ever turn an "average" person into a savant.

If, by your own admission, some brains are wired differently, and are capable of doing things others can't, why would the rest of the body be an exception? Again, when I was in high school, I used to love playing basketball. Try as I might, I could never, ever jump high enough to touch the hoop, yet another kid, who was a shorter than I, could. Nobody taught him to jump, but he tried to teach me. In forty years I've never touched the hoop, unless it was on a ladder when the net managed to get tangled up in itself. Or it was one of these...

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I'm not sure of that. I feel like I'm a decent driver... ie. I started decades ago on manual rwd cars w/ carburettors and no electronics.

But drivers even at a relatively low level like a Formula Ford driver would be so far ahead of my skills its not even comparable.

Drivers that everyone thinks are hopeless like the Maldonados etc. have superhuman driving abilities compared to 99.99% of the population.

I can't comment on your experience but in the sport that I train in (Brazilian JiuJitsu) my friends compete on a national level so I know where the competitive bar is at. These are guys who train 4 hours a day 5 times a week, if not more, and when they beat me, I can see exactly how they are beating me and it's nothing unobtainable or out of reach. I barely train half as much as they do and the gap between myself and competitive grappling, though out of reach for me, is reasonably attainable if I abandon my career, family, and other priorities to focus on BJJ.

In GT Sport I'm a DR B driver and my times are typically 5 seconds longer than the world wide competitive pace. I can tell where I'm leaking time, it's visibly attainable. I just lack the repetition and practice to consistently tighten up my laps.

So though there are people with some innate advantages that allow them to either learn faster or train more, we are still working in the same average genetic pool. It is extremely rare for a someone to be both rarely genetically gifted and simultaneously have their life align perfect with the activity or sport that 100% matches it. The only one that comes to mind is that Japanese competitive eater (Kobayashi) who was literally born with a low positioned stomach that allows him more physical room for food than most people.

The "prodigies" that I know live abnormally anti-social lives that sacrifice everything for one singular goal. I've never seen anyone reach the top of their sport while not working hard.

 

[Groundfish]

I'm sorry to say this, I don't mean to disrespect at all, but don't you think you just gave up too early? Being able to play competitively from a young age, being able to practice properly, and being able to play at a level that can push you further, you had opportunities, and great ones at that. Maybe if you just pushed a little bit further, and maybe if you played it longer, if you didn't give up a bit too early, who knows what could've happened

As for the mental side, I have a classmate that basically sleeps on 90% of his classes, the other 10% he doesn't because the teachers are stricter and he gets reprimanded. But he's one of the honor rolls and has grades equivalent to straight As. While talent might be a factor here because of how his brain is wired, the more amazing thing he can do is how good he is at handling this talent. He knows he's an auditory learner; the tests say so, and thinks so as well. So what he did is he learned this sleeping thing where he's no actually asleep, but just half asleep where he can still hear what's going on around him. So literally, while asleep, he can listen to the teachers
It doesn't stop there either. Whenever he studies for tests he'd always create mnemonics at every chance he could. And he gets creative with it. Within an hour or two of studying he'd already be ready for the test. And I think that's what makes him amazing- the way he's able to be efficient at what he has

Ok, I started my sport at age 5-6? I do not take any offense from your post at all. I think it’s a good issue to discuss. Now, you must know, I was never one of those fearless type kids. That’s important. Like with bmx bicycles and dirt bikes I rode them and had fun but other kids my age same experience could do double jumps, I never could. I have seen that some humans from a very very young age have more athletic skill than others. Same as some are smarter than others. It’s obvious to me as a parent with my own kids and also my friends. You can spot that fearless athleticism at a very young age. I wasn’t that kid, but I skateboarded bmx biked surfed golfed soccer football basketball baseball etc. I was never fast or strong naturally but I built up tremendous stamina and quickness with years of training. I was never fast in a forty yard dash or able to lift heavy weight but I was quick for those first few steps which was what mattered for me. All that came from nothing but training and hard work. I was in as good of shape stamina and quickness wise as almost anyone I ran across.
I had pretty much perfect technique.
Traveling to various tournaments I started to run into gifted athletes.
I was capable of touching their level when in my absolute best zone. That was a level they could achieve without being in a zone. Their zone was absolutely unattainable to me. These were not even pros yet. There were many levels beyond them too. Tbh it’s a matter of knowing yourself.
By the end of college, I was working a lot harder on academics than previously .
I’m not trying to discourage anyone from pursuing any dream they have. Not at all.
I’m simply pointing out that not everyone is Ayrton Senna or Pete Sampras or Tiger Woods or Nolan Ryan.
Life is largely in our control but not wholly.
The point is to do the absolute best with what you have and that won’t ever lead anyone to a bad place imo.
In closing this is what I know from experience after living a half century. I take no offense at all to the comment maybe I should have done different. I have no regrets on how I lived my younger years. Working hard taught me a lot.
No offense taken, or hopefully given by this response.
Oh, quick edit. Yes I am hugely thankful for how lucky I have been to have the opportunities I have had and I did the best I could. I can assure you, I never would have been a pro athlete in any sport.