The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[ClydeYellow]

No, it's just one of the seemingly ubiquitous bugs/glitches present in Gran Turismo games. Polyphony didn't intend their game to work that way, they wanted you to work for credits. Now, they will happily except money instead. In that case, what's wrong with the money I used to purchase the game?

The short answer is: they're not enough?

Seriously. Gran Turismo's career has always been based on the idea of grinding. Pretending them to handle you the top cars without making you sweat/grind for it would be like pretending to play EVE Online and start in a Battlecruiser. And the addition of an additional way of acquiring credits with real money on top of the 70 € you paid for the game doesn't change that. It means that rich kids who lack the patience (or other categories that may or may not have a decent reason to spend a lot of money to acquire credits) can pay real money to get those cars faster.

If you don't like that, hey, good news! You don't have to buy and play Gran Turismo. There's plenty of other car games that may cater to your needs and desires. Assetto Corsa is a good example; focusing more on the "driving/racing" aspect than on the "buying cars". pCARS is coming to consoles soon, too.

Again: there are many legitimate complains to be made about GT6. This is not one of them, in my opinion, and you will always meet my fiercest opposition when trying to pass it as one.

 

[PepeMickey]

PS3 also has the System 3 games as exclusives, they are not great though so yeah, PS3 sucked as a racing platform, XB360 on the other hand had 2 main IPs competing with each other, it also had Race Pro which is still better than anything you can find on the PS3 and the superior console versions of our favorite Codies' titles.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The short answer is: they're not enough?

Seriously. Gran Turismo's career has always been based on the idea of grinding. Pretending them to handle you the top cars without making you sweat/grind for it would be like pretending to play EVE Online and start in a Battlecruiser. And the addition of an additional way of acquiring credits with real money on top of the 70 € you paid for the game doesn't change that. It means that rich kids who lack the patience (or other categories that may or may not have a decent reason to spend a lot of money to acquire credits) can pay real money to get those cars faster.

If you don't like that, hey, good news! You don't have to buy and play Gran Turismo. There's plenty of other car games that may cater to your needs and desires. Assetto Corsa is a good example; focusing more on the "driving/racing" aspect than on the "buying cars". pCARS is coming to consoles soon, too.

This purpose of this forum however, is partly to express our views on the game design. I can name many things that were featured in early GT games that are no longer there, and other things that weren't in early games but are there now. No game is static, not even a behemoth like GT. I too think grinding is poor game design but here's the thing. If any GT game came with these options at the beginning of the game, how would your game experience be altered if I choose something other than what you choose?

Congratulations for buying GT7, pick one:

1. Sandbox Mode. Get all the cars now in your garage. Have fun.
2. Offline Career Mode - cars supplied, you win prizes but don't have to buy any cars.
3. GT Classic Offline Career Mode - buy a beater, win money, progress through your career, you buy all the cars with your winnings.
4. Online Career Mode - Start with $XXXX, race online in exclusive Spec, Tuned, Ranked etc. events, win money, buy cars and race online only. Cars supplied in spec racing, others you buy and tune.

Etc. So long as option 3 is available to anyone that wants to retain the traditional way of doing things in GT, how does anyone else lose if the rest of us have more options?

 

[napalmhardcore]

PS3 also has the System 3 games as exclusives, they are not great though so yeah, PS3 sucked as a racing platform, XB360 on the other hand had 2 main IPs competing with each other, it also had Race Pro which is still better than anything you can find on the PS3 and the superior console versions of our favorite Codies' titles.

The fact that I bought both Ferrari and Supercar Challenge kind of highlights how slim the pickings have been. They were pretty bad. They did however introduce me to some tracks I liked though (Mugello in particular).

 

[lancia delta hf]

They took a community vote and overwhelmingly voted to skip PS3 and head straight to PS4, which I also think was a good idea. Nothing to be gained and everything to lose by launching the first volley on 8 year old technology. They'll both be able to take swings at each other on brand new systems, I suspect within a year, GT7P vs PCars.

Yea i saw that and agree with them taking that route, For me i could not accept a gt on ps4 that has lower quality assets in it that were in gt4 or any title with a P in the title

 

[ClydeYellow]

This purpose of this forum however, is partly to express our views on the game design. I can name many things that were featured in early GT games that are no longer there, and other things that weren't in early games but are there now. No game is static, not even a behemoth like GT. I too think grinding is poor game design but here's the thing. If any GT game came with these options at the beginning of the game, how would your game experience be altered if I choose something other than what you choose?

Congratulations for buying GT7, pick one:

1. Sandbox Mode. Get all the cars now in your garage. Have fun.
2. Offline Career Mode - cars supplied, you win prizes but don't have to buy any cars.
3. GT Classic Offline Career Mode - buy a beater, win money, progress through your career, you buy all the cars with your winnings.
4. Online Career Mode - Start with $XXXX, race online in exclusive Spec, Tuned, Ranked etc. events, win money, buy cars and race online only. Cars supplied in spec racing, others you buy and tune.

Etc. So long as option 3 is available to anyone that wants to retain the traditional way of doing things in GT, how does anyone else lose if the rest of us have more options?

What you're doing is expressing a constructive viewpoint and pushing forth some arguments that support and validate it. This is a very rare sign of maturity in any vg community. Most people just sit here crying and whining (hence the title of this thread) and propose nothing. If they don't like the basic structure of Gran Turismo and want it to change "because I paid 70€", again, there are games better suited for them; and I mean no offense in saying that. There's a reason that I don't buy, say, Tekken: and that's because this kind of games pisses me off.

I could argue that the clientele of the "sandbox mode" could be served by a decently structured Arcade mode giving you access to all or at least most of the cars in game; that the offline career mode would be mostly forgotten and that an online career mode would be problematic (as is any money-based career mode in online driving games), but that's beside the point.

And I believe everybody can agree that the GT6 career mode feels bland and poorly structured (and that you'll end up grinding those Red Bull races no matter what); but the basic structure of it should not be touched; least we end up with a GT7 that is no Gran Turismo.

P.S: if you like racing sims... Get yourself a PC. Seriously. You're missing out a lot of fun and games that just seem like they're made for you.

 

[napalmhardcore]

P.S: if you like racing sims... Get yourself a PC. Seriously. You're missing out a lot of fun and games that just seem like they're made for you.

I own a PC and agree there are some amazing sims. My big problem is that most of the sims focus almost entirely on purpose built racing cars. That is why I still need Gran Turismo in my life and could never abandon consoles (that and the non-racing exclusives).

 

[LaughingJack]

I'm leaving this video here just to show how much Gran Turismo must improve in order to redeem itself.

well, its certainly pretty lookin'. dont know that its that Amazingly Better though. from my POV its just another car race through realistic looking scenery, over a road thats nice and lumpy (though the car appeared to stick like it was glued down) - proof is in the playing of course . one thing i noticed was that the cars sounded the same (traction/note taken into account), smoke from the tyres on the Monza looked fairly pedestrian and, i dont know if something is wrong with the video file, the Monza vid had this god-awful fire cracker noises, horribly distracting. the lighing model is quite good, although a bit dark (not HDR-like) on the Monza.
but i guess if youre into watching replays from the cockpit it would do it for you. myself, i dont play from the drivers seat, i play from the bonnet/bumper, so any cockpit/cabin stuff is really wasted on me (and many others, i suspect) and replays are mostly just annoying unless something cool or trippy happens, then ill save it.
a question would be, how much other stuff comes with the game apart from the Races?

 

[LaughingJack]

I agree, Outside of career mode you should have all cars available to you so you can go online or just enjoy the cars, The problem is i had little reason to play this game after i got bored before i even got halfway through IB, Now i have 500 cars that i want and i still have little reason to play it unless my mates are online, Its just too much of the same as GT5 in all the places GT5 fell down.

I'll tell what else i found that is annoying that i have found with having 500 cars, If i want to select a Ferrari or say a car from sweden i have to scroll down through every manafacture to get there and it takes ages if say you want to paint all your Ferrari's in one go, Countries should be colapsable which would speed things up, Of course PD arent open to suggestions so we can only hope they actually play the game one day and get pissed off with all its quirks so it gets sorted

500?! lolz, im up to IB and i still only got around 20

 

[machschnel]

And I believe everybody can agree that the GT6 career mode feels bland and poorly structured (and that you'll end up grinding those Red Bull races no matter what)

but the basic structure of it should not be touched; least we end up with a GT7 that is no Gran Turismo.

How do you fix a "poorly structured" career mode whilst not touching it's "basic structure"?

The basic structure is the problem. The career mode is "bland" because, depending on how many GT's you've played in the past, you've already played it x amount of times.

Physics have progressed from pure arcade to near sim, polar opposites.

Graphics have progressed.

Online has been added.

Gt Academy has been added.

Course Maker has been added.

Microtransactions have been added.

Etc, etc.

All these things alter the very nature of the game. Why these progressions are allowed but changes to the bland/poorly structured career mode aren't, is beyond me.

 

[ClydeYellow]

How do you fix a "poorly structured" career mode whilst not touching it's "basic structure"?

The basic structure is this: start with an inexpensive car / with a small sum of money, race what you can afford, earn money, buy more expensive cars, race with them, earn more money, buy more expensive cars, and so on. This is part of the essence, I would say, of Gran Turismo: when I think of Gran Turismo I think of the child-like glee that possesses me whenever I can finally afford a powerful and expensive car after having spent time learning the physics and AI behavior driving an underpowered Miata that I picked between tens, if not hundreds, of possible "starter" cars.

I think, however, that Polyphony built upon this premise poorly in GT6. There is no real sense of achievement as you progress through non-challenging events; there is no attachment to the cars you buy, because they force you into the Fit at the beginning of the career, and give you the right car at the right moment (instead of the thematically-relevant prize cars of the past). GT's become a bit of a soulless grind, and I have to admit, there's this period between the moment when you're done with the Nat B races and the moment when you can afford to blow away two million credits to buy a car just to see how well it performs in a race that the game will feel... Stale.

There are many things that could be done to provide us with a more exciting and varied career without actually changing this basic structure and, say, giving the player access to all the cars from the get go in career mode.

 

[wicken]

There are many things that could be done to provide us with a more exciting and varied career without actually changing this basic structure and, say, giving the player access to all the cars from the get go in career mode.

Remove hundreds of duplicates
Increase credit rewards on higher difficulty events (reduce cars prices)
More tracks
More disciplines

 

[lancia delta hf]

500?! lolz, im up to IB and i still only got around 20

Yea lol 500, I did the money glitch, Having 500 cars proves one thing to me and that is you really dont need that many cars in the game, Of course its great to have that many but when im online with friends we usualy end up racing with the same few cars, I will use more over time and uncover a gem but what im really saying is PD need to stop pushing the car count as a selling pooint and focus on what is important to making a game great

p.s I would have more than 500 but i dont want to use stock yard

 

[PepeMickey]

The fact that I bought both Ferrari and Supercar Challenge kind of highlights how slim the pickings have been. They were pretty bad. They did however introduce me to some tracks I liked though (Mugello in particular).

I bought both too, the US versions though (Ferrari TRE and Absolute Supercars), some of the tracks were amazing and some were the worst renditions I've ever seen like Nurb GP and Hockenheim.

AS rendered FTRE useless, I paid twice for the same basic game and I could never get into it, it was impossible to drive on the limit and the AI was like playing NFS HP online with a bunch of kids, cars drifting all over the place, bumping into each other and swerving from side to side like idiots if you were near them.

I think F1 Championship Edition (F1 2006 for the PS2 in HD basically) is the best racing game that you can get on the PS3, that game is really good but it's sad that a launch game is the best the PS3 has to offer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What you're doing is expressing a constructive viewpoint and pushing forth some arguments that support and validate it. This is a very rare sign of maturity in any vg community. Most people just sit here crying and whining (hence the title of this thread) and propose nothing. If they don't like the basic structure of Gran Turismo and want it to change "because I paid 70€", again, there are games better suited for them; and I mean no offense in saying that. There's a reason that I don't buy, say, Tekken: and that's because this kind of games pisses me off.

I could argue that the clientele of the "sandbox mode" could be served by a decently structured Arcade mode giving you access to all or at least most of the cars in game; that the offline career mode would be mostly forgotten and that an online career mode would be problematic (as is any money-based career mode in online driving games), but that's beside the point.

And I believe everybody can agree that the GT6 career mode feels bland and poorly structured (and that you'll end up grinding those Red Bull races no matter what); but the basic structure of it should not be touched; least we end up with a GT7 that is no Gran Turismo.

P.S: if you like racing sims... Get yourself a PC. Seriously. You're missing out a lot of fun and games that just seem like they're made for you.

You never answered this question:

If any GT game came with these options at the beginning of the game, how would your game experience be altered if I choose something other than what you choose?

Congratulations for buying GT7, pick one:

1. Sandbox Mode. Get all the cars now in your garage. Have fun.
2. Offline Career Mode - cars supplied, you win prizes but don't have to buy any cars.
3. GT Classic Offline Career Mode - buy a beater, win money, progress through your career, you buy all the cars with your winnings.
4. Online Career Mode - Start with $XXXX, race online in exclusive Spec, Tuned, Ranked etc. events, win money, buy cars and race online only. Cars supplied in spec racing, others you buy and tune.

Etc. So long as option 3 is available to anyone that wants to retain the traditional way of doing things in GT, how does anyone else lose if the rest of us have more options?

 

[HaylRayzor]

The essence of GT doesn't have to be lost to make a real career mode.

In the real world you don't buy your own Le Mans Prototype and go run the 24. You get hired by a racing team. You have sponsors.

Start off in karts. Win enough races (and hopefully a championship) and somebody notices you and offers you a ride. Of course it's a low level series and the car isn't very good but it's a step up. You run the full season and maybe if you're good enough you can get a sponsor and upgrade your car enough to win some races and maybe the championship. So you get another offer to drive in a higher series. Maybe you get multiple offers and you have to decide if you'll go open wheel or GT.

And so on. That's a career mode.

Running the same 3-5 lap start-at-the-rear race over and over in different cars on different tracks is not a career and not much of a game.

 

[napalmhardcore]

I've always personally taken the game structure (or the grind as it has become known) for what it is. My big problem with GT5 was waiting for a car I want to randomly appear at the used car dealership. I'd end up passing up cars that I was kind of interested in hoping that the one I really want would turn up, only to find I could have bought it comfortably by the time the one I want turns up. Alternatively I'd buy the one I'm kind of interested in, only for the one I really want to turn up but I can't afford it.

I hate the paint chip system though. Let me buy manufacturers paint for a certain price, and if I want custom paint, let me use a colour wheel and charge me more for it.

My gripes are generally the lack of easily implemented features that would improve the game, long running problems that don't get addressed and the way PD/Kaz prioritises what gets implemented/fixed.

 

[mr_serious]

If they placed more emphasis on making the (offline) racing an enjoyable competitive challenge - and structured it like real racing (qualifying, entry restrictions, decent competition [AI]) then the 'grind' wouldn't be a grind, becuase I would play it for the racing - the final position (and monetary rewards etc...) are just a bonus.

Real racers race for the racing, very few actually do a lot of winning.

 

[ShiftingGears]

The crux of the issue is that the offline racing sucks in GT because everything about it is so tried, tired, mediocre and stale. So many people don't get any joy out of the racing, but still want the joy of driving and tuning their own cars. Of course, having to do the same events for hours on end due to a broken in-game economy and lack of proper progression also does not impress.

I've always personally taken the game structure (or the grind as it has become known) for what it is. My big problem with GT5 was waiting for a car I want to randomly appear at the used car dealership. I'd end up passing up cars that I was kind of interested in hoping that the one I really want would turn up, only to find I could have bought it comfortably by the time the one I want turns up. Alternatively I'd buy the one I'm kind of interested in, only for the one I really want to turn up but I can't afford it.

Having to wait for a Formula GT to appear in the used car lot to enter one of the highest tier events is the most lazy, ill-thought gameplay decision I've ever seen in any game, bar none.

 

[ONEEYEMONSTaR]

...no really... this not being able to reset your car back to default and copy settings is annoying!

 

[ClydeYellow]

You never answered this question:

I'll answer it here and now, then: it wouldn't. It would, perhaps, affect in a slight but measurable way the perception I have of Gran Turismo as a series. But it wouldn't affect my experience much. However, having the whole experience changed in one direction would leave me a quite unhappy camper, as I am quite satisfied with the current experience, and enjoy working toward the collection of virtual money required to buy a car.

One things that rustles my jimmies is, for example, how people are eager to remove duplicates. How do they change their experience? It's unlikely that PD could use the time "wasted" on adding minor variations of a model to add entirely new cars to the game.

 

[mister dog]

PS3 also has the System 3 games as exclusives, they are not great though so yeah, PS3 sucked as a racing platform, XB360 on the other hand had 2 main IPs competing with each other, it also had Race Pro which is still better than anything you can find on the PS3 and the superior console versions of our favorite Codies' titles.

Indeed

Race pro is my winner this generation, even though the graphics are a bit dated.

 

[CeeJay]

Yeah the PS3 is really lacking when it comes to racing (non-NFS type) games. I really miss the old TOCA games. I freaking loved them to death on the PS1 and PS2 back in the day. TOCA Race Driver 2 and 3 on the PS2.. (think they were called something much different over in Europe) man, every time I play GT I think if only we could have combined Codemasters and PD, I think we could have had the absolute ultimate racing/simulation game ever made! (This is the old codemasters, I'm not sure about the current Codies)

 

[LaughingJack]

personally i bought the PS1 for the original WipeOut ... then i quickly discovered GT. after that i have purchased the PS consoles primarily for GT and secondly for WipeOut, in fact these have been console-selling games for me as well as the thousands of systems sold globally for the same reason. i dont play anything else (of mention) on the PS, i have a PC for 'real gaming' and i have never expected anything more than a "console" experience. yes indeed the console lacks for a mess of driving games but i think that the GT series has, baring some minor flaws over the years, been a top-shelf IP. i have never overestimated what my gaming experience might be like with each iteration of software or hardware, and i have had many, many hours of enjoyment. unfortunately GT6 has changed that by ending up being rather underwhelming at the end of the day. many of the other driving titles being bandied about are on the PC but not everyone can afford to build (or wants to) a new PC every 2 years, so they go for the consoles. if the Xbox system offers more online conectivity/abilities than the PS, then just remember that the Xbox is more than likely compensating for the fact it is an ageing, underspec'ed Windoze box.


@CeeJay: wow, CodeMasters, thats a blast from the past, for those old enough to know what a C64 or Amiga is 👍

 

[PepeMickey]

Indeed

Race pro is my winner this generation, even though the graphics are a bit dated.

Mastering every corner in Macau with a godly sounding AM DBR9 beats hot lapping the Nurb at sunset any day, even racing the MINI cup cars at Brands Hatch puts GT to shame.

EDIT: I mean...



BTW, I didn't know that Race Pro had 3 DLC packs, I just checked the descriptions and I NEED dem packs!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'll answer it here and now, then: it wouldn't. It would, perhaps, affect in a slight but measurable way the perception I have of Gran Turismo as a series. But it wouldn't affect my experience much. However, having the whole experience changed in one direction would leave me a quite unhappy camper, as I am quite satisfied with the current experience, and enjoy working toward the collection of virtual money required to buy a car.

One things that rustles my jimmies is, for example, how people are eager to remove duplicates. How do they change their experience? It's unlikely that PD could use the time "wasted" on adding minor variations of a model to add entirely new cars to the game.

As long as the old standards are in the game, removing duplicates is just silly. They're already made and they only take up a small amount of data space on the disk. Nothing is gained by removing them.

I don't want GT to change in one direction same as you, I just want it to evolve and broaden it's horizons so to speak. Lots of people like the old way of doing things and that's great. Some of us are just looking for something a little different after playing basically the same game with different cars and tracks for 15 years. If they can accomodate most of us, that would be great.

 

[Imari]

As long as the old standards are in the game, removing duplicates is just silly. They're already made and they only take up a small amount of data space on the disk. Nothing is gained by removing them.

The only thing I would say if they're going to have duplicates is to structure the method of buying them in a sensible way. No one wants to scroll through 50 Miatas every time they want to buy a Mazda. Group them in sensible ways, like by model revision, and then give options to select trim/options when you purchase, just like you'd select a colour.

Much more user friendly. Much less user annoying. It took me at least five minutes to find the one premium RX8 last night, when it should have taken about thirty seconds.

 

[LaughingJack]

Mastering every corner in Macau with a godly sounding AM DBR9 beats hot lapping the Nurb at sunset any day, even racing the MINI cup cars at Brands Hatch puts GT to shame.

EDIT: I mean...



BTW, I didn't know that Race Pro had 3 DLC packs, I just checked the descriptions and I NEED dem packs!

sorry to burst your bubble, and it may be the youtube's fault, but the first thing that came to mind watching this was the old Daytona coin-op. it looks and appears to play like an arcade game, and that horrible bobbing-around cockpit view is terrible, not to mention the awful sound - very 16bit.
but if you like's, then enjoy's

 

[PepeMickey]

sorry to burst your bubble, and it may be the youtube's fault, but the first thing that came to mind watching this was the old Daytona coin-op. it looks and appears to play like an arcade game, and that horrible bobbing-around cockpit view is terrible, not to mention the awful sound - very 16bit.
but if you like's, then enjoy's

Oh man, when did we start categorizing games based on the way they look? Does NFS have ''arcade graphics'' in your eyes as well? Physics are better than anything on consoles but if you don't like the wobble, that's your opinion and not the games fault, plus many GT players around here would actually prefer a cockpit view like this. Awful sound? Don't make me laugh, Race Pro of course is no Assetto Corsa, IRacing, nor R3E when it comes to sounds but you can't honestly say that without biting your own tongue.

But thanks for proving the point I've raised many times before, ''can't refute an argument, proceed to lower down said game to GT's standards so that the latter doesn't look so bad''. BTW I'm not in a bubble for you to burst, I play various racing games on various platforms and I can be as negative about them as I am with Gran Turismo, you just have to ask.

 

[CeeJay]

@CeeJay: wow, CodeMasters, thats a blast from the past, for those old enough to know what a C64 or Amiga is 👍

too funny, just bought this off a guy, looks to be in pretty good shape! (The box even had the original receipt from 1985). Looking forward to getting Test Drive by Accolade and comparing it to GT6!