The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Earth]

Okay, then we are in agreement?

Sorry, I say this as you seemed to imply that fans would not be buying GT6 over GT5 - hence my own comment. I agree, there is a surprising amount of negativity on this site - mind you, it is mostly from a disproportionately small number of people who appear to be unhappy bunnies.

Its a small number because everyone else who didnt like GT5 is long gone. A significant chunk of my friends lists who were hyped for GT5 after GT5P have not logged in to GTP in over a year or longer.

 

[deep_sky]

Given that this (I believe?) was the "final" blowout of information, I am honestly left very underwhelmed by GT6, and am left bemused as to what exactly Polyphony have been doing for three years. This is in spite of my two main wishes - Brands Hatch and Daytona @ night - being included.

No livery editor and by extension no storefront? No Rivals/Autolog competitor? They're really persevering with paint chips? Major features like Course Maker not even making day one? No major sound improvements? [Personal wish]No improved NASCAR rules? At least give us Cautions at the bare minimum, PD.[/Personal wish]

I dunno, I'm left really puzzled.

 

[Earth]

Recently I've begun to come to the conclusion that the language barrier has been the biggest problem all along. GTP is an English speaking site. Most of PD's staff Im sure speak Japanese and very little if any English, including Kaz himself. So they're not ignoring requests for the E30 or livery editor, they're simply not aware of them. Imagine if you were developing a game and the largest fansite spoke only Japanese. It would be pretty difficult to understand what they're about, right?

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells, not by reviews or consumer feedback. They did things a certain way in GT5, and it sold extremely well. The best selling Playstation exclusive. So why change the way they're doing things? Sales numbers are probably more important then review scores or feedback to them. Call of Duty may be a yearly retread, but it sells well because people like to know what they're getting. The developers are aware of that, so they're sure to keep it as familiar as possible.

I just think PD knows most people are content with hotlapping hundreds of cars around numerous courses. The success of GT Academy confirms that. So thats what they're focused on, physics for hotlapping and more cars and tracks. Thats why we get the hotlapping seasonal events and not real races. Thats why theres no qualifying, no real race weekend for events. PD doesnt think its audience really cares about the racing experience. Do you need great AI when hotlapping? Do you need a good damage model when hotlapping? No. So no need to focus on those things.

I hate to say it, but Gran Turismo is never going to change. Its been the same thing for 15 years now, with minimal updates along the way. Those of us who have been with the series since its inception in 1998 have begun to want more out of the series. We're older now, we're digging into PC sims, and Gran Turismo is starting to not hold its ground anymore. These other titles strive to imitate real world racing much better by giving a full race weekend (practice/qualifying/race), caution flags, etc. Meanwhile GT is stuck being the car collecting simulator, where the racing feels more like some bush league event rather then a professionally organized race weekend.

Thats where it becomes terribly frustrating. GT has upgraded its graphics significantly since 1998. Same with physics, car count, track count, etc. But the racing is still the same. Customizing your car is still mostly the same. And I dont think that will ever change. Its not that they're slow at change in these areas, its that they're not changing and wont change. They see racing and car customization as not that important. They know when people think of GT they dont think of great, challenging AI or custom liveries or engine swaps. They think lots of cars, pretty graphics, and hot lapping, and GT Academy.

So I've finally broke. It saddens me a bit to say I no longer expect greatness from GT. The passion I could feel in the design of the original GT has since faded into nothingness. Im no longer interested in trying to gather ideas to improve the series, or in tracking development updates, or hoping it improves. I have the same expectations of it as a COD game. Just another title with a bigger number then the last. Im no longer disappointed, as I no longer am willing to hold expectations for the game. What it is is what it is. Really sad because for a while there I actually thought PD shared my opinion of what really makes a great racer everyone can enjoy. I couldnt be more wrong.

Its something like a divorce. For the longest time you thought she was perfect for you, but in time you discovered that you and her have irreconcilable differences. So I tried to make this marriage work. I waited, I begged, I fell for unkept promises, I tried my best to be a good partner by supporting and buying the games. But in the end I realized these differences are here to stay. Gran Turismo is not changing. But Ill hang around for now because Im a bum and theres nobody else I can afford on the other console or PC side of things. Hopefully GT is kind to me with #6 and doesnt make the time I have left with her miserable by beating me with a poor career mode etc. Or I could just stick it out, try to make the marriage work. Instead of focusing on GT's flaws, try to focus on its merits. Sounds like a good idea.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Recently I've begun to come to the conclusion that the language barrier has been the biggest problem all along. GTP is an English speaking site. Most of PD's staff Im sure speak Japanese and very little if any English, including Kaz himself. So they're not ignoring requests for the E30 or livery editor, they're simply not aware of them. Imagine if you were developing a game and the largest fansite spoke only Japanese. It would be pretty difficult to understand what they're about, right?.

The language barrier is no excuse. They have the resources to hire a translator. The lack of an official forum suggests to me that they simply have no interest in wanting feedback from GT fans. If what the fans want coincides with what PD want, then yes, those features will be in the game, but the bottom line is that PD does what PD wants.

 

[MeanElf]

Its a small number because everyone else who didnt like GT5 is long gone. A significant chunk of my friends lists who were hyped for GT5 after GT5P have not logged in to GTP in over a year or longer.

That may be true, and likewise the huge number of GT players should be considered, those who remain silent or who are not even members of this site. I stick with my assesment therefore.

 

[bodger]

Recently I've begun to come to the conclusion that the language barrier has been the biggest problem all along. GTP is an English speaking site. Most of PD's staff Im sure speak Japanese and very little if any English, including Kaz himself. So they're not ignoring requests for the E30 or livery editor, they're simply not aware of them. Imagine if you were developing a game and the largest fansite spoke only Japanese. It would be pretty difficult to understand what they're about, right?

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells, not by reviews or consumer feedback. They did things a certain way in GT5, and it sold extremely well. The best selling Playstation exclusive. So why change the way they're doing things? Sales numbers are probably more important then review scores or feedback to them. Call of Duty may be a yearly retread, but it sells well because people like to know what they're getting. The developers are aware of that, so they're sure to keep it as familiar as possible.

I just think PD knows most people are content with hotlapping hundreds of cars around numerous courses. The success of GT Academy confirms that. So thats what they're focused on, physics for hotlapping and more cars and tracks. Thats why we get the hotlapping seasonal events and not real races. Thats why theres no qualifying, no real race weekend for events. PD doesnt think its audience really cares about the racing experience. Do you need great AI when hotlapping? Do you need a good damage model when hotlapping? No. So no need to focus on those things.

I hate to say it, but Gran Turismo is never going to change. Its been the same thing for 15 years now, with minimal updates along the way. Those of us who have been with the series since its inception in 1998 have begun to want more out of the series. We're older now, we're digging into PC sims, and Gran Turismo is starting to not hold its ground anymore. These other titles strive to imitate real world racing much better by giving a full race weekend (practice/qualifying/race), caution flags, etc. Meanwhile GT is stuck being the car collecting simulator, where the racing feels more like some bush league event rather then a professionally organized race weekend.

Thats where it becomes terribly frustrating. GT has upgraded its graphics significantly since 1998. Same with physics, car count, track count, etc. But the racing is still the same. Customizing your car is still mostly the same. And I dont think that will ever change. Its not that they're slow at change in these areas, its that they're not changing and wont change. They see racing and car customization as not that important. They know when people think of GT they dont think of great, challenging AI or custom liveries or engine swaps. They think lots of cars, pretty graphics, and hot lapping, and GT Academy.

So I've finally broke. It saddens me a bit to say I no longer expect greatness from GT. The passion I could feel in the design of the original GT has since faded into nothingness. Im no longer interested in trying to gather ideas to improve the series, or in tracking development updates, or hoping it improves. I have the same expectations of it as a COD game. Just another title with a bigger number then the last. Im no longer disappointed, as I no longer am willing to hold expectations for the game. What it is is what it is. Really sad because for a while there I actually thought PD shared my opinion of what really makes a great racer everyone can enjoy. I couldnt be more wrong.

Its something like a divorce. For the longest time you thought she was perfect for you, but in time you discovered that you and her have irreconcilable differences. So I tried to make this marriage work. I waited, I begged, I fell for unkept promises, I tried my best to be a good partner by supporting and buying the games. But in the end I realized these differences are here to stay. Gran Turismo is not changing. But Ill hang around for now because Im a bum and theres nobody else I can afford on the other console or PC side of things. Hopefully GT is kind to me with #6 and doesnt make the time I have left with her miserable by beating me with a poor career mode etc. Or I could just stick it out, try to make the marriage work. Instead of focusing on GT's flaws, try to focus on its merits. Sounds like a good idea.

I think you are over doing it somewhat.

These kind of posts appeared before the release of GT5 and GT4. There is nothing new.

You are right about the general direction of the GT series though, you just have to learn to either like it, and buy it, or not.

Not every driving sim as the perfect recipe for everything. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Killer2142GT4]

Given that this (I believe?) was the "final" blowout of information, I am honestly left very underwhelmed by GT6, and am left bemused as to what exactly Polyphony have been doing for three years. This is in spite of my two main wishes - Brands Hatch and Daytona @ night - being included.

No livery editor and by extension no storefront? No Rivals/Autolog competitor? They're really persevering with paint chips? Major features like Course Maker not even making day one? No major sound improvements? [Personal wish]No improved NASCAR rules? At least give us Cautions at the bare minimum, PD.[/Personal wish]

I dunno, I'm left really puzzled.

I think PD is just too small to compete with western devs. Look at games like GTA5 or AC4. Those games are made by 1000+ people, in contrast PD is just around 150+ people. Add inefficiency, missmanagement and well you see the result.

 

[bodger]

I think PD is just too small to compete with western devs. Look at games like GTA5 or AC4. Those games are made by 1000+ people, in contrast PD is just around 150+ people. Add inefficiency, missmanagement and well you see the result.

I would be interested to see some references of evidence for the alleged inefficiency and mismanagement...

I think Kaz has said before the team is intentionally smaller than a lot of game dev teams these days. That's the way he wants it.

Don't forget, having a huge team isn't necessarily an indication that things go well. Managing huge teams is not easy. Read the book "The Mythical Man Month" by Brooks.

Granted, a large team is going to increase the amount of assets you can generate (models, artwork etc.) but there are a lot of other challenges to manage. For every GTA5, the road is littered with development 'hell' failures.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Recently I've begun to come to the conclusion that the language barrier has been the biggest problem all along. GTP is an English speaking site. Most of PD's staff Im sure speak Japanese and very little if any English, including Kaz himself. So they're not ignoring requests for the E30 or livery editor, they're simply not aware of them. Imagine if you were developing a game and the largest fansite spoke only Japanese. It would be pretty difficult to understand what they're about, right?

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells, not by reviews or consumer feedback. They did things a certain way in GT5, and it sold extremely well. The best selling Playstation exclusive. So why change the way they're doing things? Sales numbers are probably more important then review scores or feedback to them. Call of Duty may be a yearly retread, but it sells well because people like to know what they're getting. The developers are aware of that, so they're sure to keep it as familiar as possible.

I just think PD knows most people are content with hotlapping hundreds of cars around numerous courses. The success of GT Academy confirms that. So thats what they're focused on, physics for hotlapping and more cars and tracks. Thats why we get the hotlapping seasonal events and not real races. Thats why theres no qualifying, no real race weekend for events. PD doesnt think its audience really cares about the racing experience. Do you need great AI when hotlapping? Do you need a good damage model when hotlapping? No. So no need to focus on those things.

I hate to say it, but Gran Turismo is never going to change. Its been the same thing for 15 years now, with minimal updates along the way. Those of us who have been with the series since its inception in 1998 have begun to want more out of the series. We're older now, we're digging into PC sims, and Gran Turismo is starting to not hold its ground anymore. These other titles strive to imitate real world racing much better by giving a full race weekend (practice/qualifying/race), caution flags, etc. Meanwhile GT is stuck being the car collecting simulator, where the racing feels more like some bush league event rather then a professionally organized race weekend.

Thats where it becomes terribly frustrating. GT has upgraded its graphics significantly since 1998. Same with physics, car count, track count, etc. But the racing is still the same. Customizing your car is still mostly the same. And I dont think that will ever change. Its not that they're slow at change in these areas, its that they're not changing and wont change. They see racing and car customization as not that important. They know when people think of GT they dont think of great, challenging AI or custom liveries or engine swaps. They think lots of cars, pretty graphics, and hot lapping, and GT Academy.

So I've finally broke. It saddens me a bit to say I no longer expect greatness from GT. The passion I could feel in the design of the original GT has since faded into nothingness. Im no longer interested in trying to gather ideas to improve the series, or in tracking development updates, or hoping it improves. I have the same expectations of it as a COD game. Just another title with a bigger number then the last. Im no longer disappointed, as I no longer am willing to hold expectations for the game. What it is is what it is. Really sad because for a while there I actually thought PD shared my opinion of what really makes a great racer everyone can enjoy. I couldnt be more wrong.

Its something like a divorce. For the longest time you thought she was perfect for you, but in time you discovered that you and her have irreconcilable differences. So I tried to make this marriage work. I waited, I begged, I fell for unkept promises, I tried my best to be a good partner by supporting and buying the games. But in the end I realized these differences are here to stay. Gran Turismo is not changing. But Ill hang around for now because Im a bum and theres nobody else I can afford on the other console or PC side of things. Hopefully GT is kind to me with #6 and doesnt make the time I have left with her miserable by beating me with a poor career mode etc. Or I could just stick it out, try to make the marriage work. Instead of focusing on GT's flaws, try to focus on its merits. Sounds like a good idea.

I don't agree with everything you said, but I agree it is frustrating to see what GT could be and how far it is from that. The resources are there to make GT the king of the hill in just about every racing sim core area, given the limitations of the PS3, which will disappear with GT7.

The thing you cannot forget is that first and foremost, PD/GT is Kaz's baby. It follows his vision and no one else's. I really doubt anyone has much say at PD as to where they company is going or what direction the franchise is headed. It's not so much that he cares about sales or reviews, it's that so far the sales have backed up his vision and therefore he assumes he's on the right track. Not that he's making the best game, but that he's making the game that people want because they are buying it. Because if people really cared about sounds, AI, career mode like other games have, our sales would go down right? They don't and so he draws from that that the concerns of critics and fans don't matter much.

The only thing that will change the direction of GT is a sales shocker. Poor GT6 sales will cause Kaz to reflect, not on money lost, but that the public is changing and he must change with it to continue with his overall vision. He'll reluctantly be forced to devote more resources to stuff that was a low priority for him so far, like AI, Sounds, Crash Damage etc, so that he can continue to do the stuff he loves.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

I think PD is just too small to compete with western devs. Look at games like GTA5 or AC4. Those games are made by 1000+ people, in contrast PD is just around 150+ people. Add inefficiency, missmanagement and well you see the result.

PD should just outsource the car models...

 

[mohammad]

guys iv been away for few months , just tell me this , is there any kind of livery editor in game?
doesnt have to be like forza anything will do , maybe few templates for adding strips & such to your cars & make them look like race cars
!?

 

[sepulturite]

guys iv been away for few months , just tell me this , is there any kind of livery editor in game?
doesnt have to be like forza anything will do , maybe few templates for adding strips & such to your cars & make them look like race cars
!?

It doesn't look there's going to be, but no one knows for sure yet. But it's doubtful.

 

[ZoidFile]

Well, I don't think PD is as mismanaged as we are make them out to be.
The amount of quality contend they put out is quite remarkable for such a small team.
Just for comparison Turn10 has twice as many people and they still outsource on top of it.

PD should just outsource the car models...

Yeah, let them outsource, so we can complain even more about modeling errors and quality differences.

Edit:

Oh and about the E30, if I was PD and I had plans to include this car. I would sell it as DLC anyway, because such a high demanded car would sell like crazy.

 

[lazywolfe]

Outsourcing doesn't instantly mean modeling errors and quality differences. Did I miss something?

 

[lazywolfe]

Don't forget, having a huge team isn't necessarily an indication that things go well. Managing huge teams is not easy. Read the book "The Mythical Man Month" by Brooks.
...
I would be interested to see some references of evidence for the alleged inefficiency and mismanagement...

True that a bigger team isn't always better.

PD showing inefficiency and mismanagement is from what we've seen over the years. They miss deadlines, delay a lot, release buggy patches that introduce other bugs, etc. Completely objectively, those are signs of inefficiency and mismanagement. If the same things happened on my programming team, we'd definitely have to answer to higher-ups about it.

I don't point that out to slam them though, but just to say there's room for improvement.

 

[machschnel]

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells, not by reviews or consumer feedback.

Can you blame them?

Why would you bother making significant changes/improvements when you are already the highest selling game on the PS3? I'd say Sony would have given quite good feedback.

 

[eSZee]

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells

Yes, that's how it usually works.

 

[Killer2142GT4]

I would be interested to see some references of evidence for the alleged inefficiency and mismanagement...

I think Kaz has said before the team is intentionally smaller than a lot of game dev teams these days. That's the way he wants it.

Don't forget, having a huge team isn't necessarily an indication that things go well. Managing huge teams is not easy. Read the book "The Mythical Man Month" by Brooks.

Granted, a large team is going to increase the amount of assets you can generate (models, artwork etc.) but there are a lot of other challenges to manage. For every GTA5, the road is littered with development 'hell' failures.

Gran Turismo is one of the few examples where a bigger team would work well. More people, more tracks, more premium cars.

When i look at the official GT6 car list i feel very disappointed. No BMW M5 F10, no E63 AMG, no Audi RS5, not even the iconic AE86, no Toyota Supra as a premium car.

It also seems, after playing the GT6 demo, that Physics, Sound, Feel of the Cockpits (Fov, fixed camera etc..), Damage, Ai and more is not up to par with western console and PC games. For me thats a sign of inefficency, mismanagment or lack of talent.

I will still buy GT6 day one, but not because it will be an exceptionaly good game, but because im a GT fan since the first game.

 

[scoobyonline200]

Throws self onto floor and begins to kick and scream.. Why won't they include Red Rock Valley, Grindelwald, Rome Night and Midfield!....

Gets up and walks away.. That's my whining and crying....

But seriously, I think those tracks would look amazing!, maybe they'll include them in a future DLC or in the next Gran Turismo release.. Oh well, what can one do....

 

[bodger]

True that a bigger team isn't always better.

PD showing inefficiency and mismanagement is from what we've seen over the years. They miss deadlines, delay a lot, release buggy patches that introduce other bugs, etc. Completely objectively, those are signs of inefficiency and mismanagement. If the same things happened on my programming team, we'd definitely have to answer to higher-ups about it.

I don't point that out to slam them though, but just to say there's room for improvement.

It is interesting that you are working on the assumption that the delays are down to mismanagement etc. there have been other reasons; delays that have been down to scheduling, problems with Sony on Blu-ray printing, delays based on decisions to include more content/features, decisions to delay based on technologies and also reasons down to Sony's own desire to have a GT game on a certain schedule.

Yes, there are bugs - but I never remember a GT game ever been delivered in a unstable unplayable state such as what happened with the latest Sim City. If you really are a developer (like myself) you will realise that no matter how good the team, bugs happen. Most games these days get patched. In the past, they wouldn't have been due to the offline nature of old consoles.

You definitely never hear of team break downs and bust ups in PD.

From what I see they have delivered a shed load of titles of the last 15 years to a high standard - not a sign of a team in crisis.

 

[bodger]

Gran Turismo is one of the few examples where a bigger team would work well. More people, more tracks, more premium cars.

When i look at the official GT6 car list i feel very disappointed. No BMW M5 F10, no E63 AMG, no Audi RS5, not even the iconic AE86, no Toyota Supra as a premium car.

It also seems, after playing the GT6 demo, that Physics, Sound, Feel of the Cockpits (Fov, fixed camera etc..), Damage, Ai and more is not up to par with western console and PC games. For me thats a sign of inefficency, mismanagment or lack of talent.

I will still buy GT6 day one, but not because it will be an exceptionaly good game, but because im a GT fan since the first game.

In terms of production of assets (models etc.) I would tend to agree - although there is an issue with quality control there.

As far as the development of the rest of the game is concerned, you need to read "The Mythical Man Month" - it would transform your opinion on this...

 

[Kester4]

Gran Turismo is one of the few examples where a bigger team would work well. More people, more tracks, more premium cars.

When i look at the official GT6 car list i feel very disappointed. No BMW M5 F10, no E63 AMG, no Audi RS5, not even the iconic AE86, no Toyota Supra as a premium car.

It also seems, after playing the GT6 demo, that Physics, Sound, Feel of the Cockpits (Fov, fixed camera etc..), Damage, Ai and more is not up to par with western console and PC games. For me thats a sign of inefficency, mismanagment or lack of talent.

I will still buy GT6 day one, but not because it will be an exceptionaly good game, but because im a GT fan since the first game.

For me this is the biggest let down in the GT series. Its almost like they blatantly turn a blind eye to whats going on in the automotive industry.

over 1200 cars... Easily 400 or more that never get used or sometimes even seen after being forced to play with or race against in career mode. We are on GT6 and theres basically a pool are cars that have been recycled since the first game.

Why not go out on a limb and give us 600+ quality premium cars... I just read the car list and im just as big of a Honda lover as a 16 year old ricer. But when I see 91, 92, 93, 95 models of the same car I begin to wonder if they ever thoguth about revamping the car list.


I played GT5 today and stopped to think a min. Prolly the 1000th time ive asked myself this question Why on gods green earth would PD put in kart racing and 6 games and 15 years in we don't even have a dedicated 1/4 strip. But apparently kart Racing is a must have. Its mind boggling and dishearthening for a live long GT fan, drag racing fan and automotive enthusiast in general.

 

[Killer2142GT4]

In terms of production of assets (models etc.) I would tend to agree - although there is an issue with quality control there.

As far as the development of the rest of the game is concerned, you need to read "The Mythical Man Month" - it would transform your opinion on this...

Of course, adding more manpower wont make the Physics better or improve the netcode, but it would give us more cars or maybe better and more acourate engine sounds.

QC can be a problem yes, and PD definitely has some problems with QC. (BMW M5 premium model for example).

 

[MeanElf]

For me this is the biggest let down in the GT series...blah, blah, blah...over 1200 cars... Easily 400 or more that never get used or sometimes even seen after being forced to play with or race against in career mode. We are on GT6 and theres basically a pool are cars that have been recycled since the first game...

Never say never - there is a whole bunch of people out there who enjoy driving the 'unloved cars' that are (admittedly) rarely used. Personally I think of it an education - especially the older cars which I might have missed out on. As a member of a regular GT5 racing group, I can safely say that all cars have pretty much had their say and their moment, each and every one of them.

 

[Magic Ayrton]

For me this is the biggest let down in the GT series. Its almost like they blatantly turn a blind eye to whats going on in the automotive industry.

over 1200 cars... Easily 400 or more that never get used or sometimes even seen after being forced to play with or race against in career mode. We are on GT6 and theres basically a pool are cars that have been recycled since the first game.

Why not go out on a limb and give us 600+ quality premium cars... I just read the car list and im just as big of a Honda lover as a 16 year old ricer. But when I see 91, 92, 93, 95 models of the same car I begin to wonder if they ever thoguth about revamping the car list.


I played GT5 today and stopped to think a min. Prolly the 1000th time ive asked myself this question Why on gods green earth would PD put in kart racing and 6 games and 15 years in we don't even have a dedicated 1/4 strip. But apparently kart Racing is a must have. Its mind boggling and dishearthening for a live long GT fan, drag racing fan and automotive enthusiast in general.

Isn't Kart racing the starter for all motorsport?..

 

[ZoidFile]

Never say never - there is a whole bunch of people out there who enjoy driving the 'unloved cars' that are (admittedly) rarely used. Personally I think of it as an education - especially the older cars which I might have missed out on. As a member of a regular GT5 racing group, I can safely say that all cars have pretty much had their say and their moment, each and every one of them.

I agree on that. I enjoy the Ka's, Cervos, Silvias, 2CV's and Beetles way more than any hyper or super car. Racing Street Cars and Eco boxes is the true soul of Gran Turismo.

 

[MeanElf]

I agree on that. I enjoy the Ka's, Cervos, Silvias, 2CV's and Beetles way more than any hyper or super car. Racing Street Cars and Eco boxes is the true soul of Gran Turismo.

Cool beans dude - the best surprises out there are the ones that make us smile

 

[Wolfe]

Racing Street Cars and Eco boxes is the true soul of Gran Turismo.

Way back at the beginning, it was a big part of what made GT1 stand out among all other racing games at the time. 👍

 

[MLRSparco]

Recently I've begun to come to the conclusion that the language barrier has been the biggest problem all along. GTP is an English speaking site. Most of PD's staff Im sure speak Japanese and very little if any English, including Kaz himself. So they're not ignoring requests for the E30 or livery editor, they're simply not aware of them. Imagine if you were developing a game and the largest fansite spoke only Japanese. It would be pretty difficult to understand what they're about, right?

My conclusion is they're judging the success of the game by how well it sells, not by reviews or consumer feedback. They did things a certain way in GT5, and it sold extremely well. The best selling Playstation exclusive. So why change the way they're doing things? Sales numbers are probably more important then review scores or feedback to them. Call of Duty may be a yearly retread, but it sells well because people like to know what they're getting. The developers are aware of that, so they're sure to keep it as familiar as possible.

I just think PD knows most people are content with hotlapping hundreds of cars around numerous courses. The success of GT Academy confirms that. So thats what they're focused on, physics for hotlapping and more cars and tracks. Thats why we get the hotlapping seasonal events and not real races. Thats why theres no qualifying, no real race weekend for events. PD doesnt think its audience really cares about the racing experience. Do you need great AI when hotlapping? Do you need a good damage model when hotlapping? No. So no need to focus on those things.

I hate to say it, but Gran Turismo is never going to change. Its been the same thing for 15 years now, with minimal updates along the way. Those of us who have been with the series since its inception in 1998 have begun to want more out of the series. We're older now, we're digging into PC sims, and Gran Turismo is starting to not hold its ground anymore. These other titles strive to imitate real world racing much better by giving a full race weekend (practice/qualifying/race), caution flags, etc. Meanwhile GT is stuck being the car collecting simulator, where the racing feels more like some bush league event rather then a professionally organized race weekend.

Thats where it becomes terribly frustrating. GT has upgraded its graphics significantly since 1998. Same with physics, car count, track count, etc. But the racing is still the same. Customizing your car is still mostly the same. And I dont think that will ever change. Its not that they're slow at change in these areas, its that they're not changing and wont change. They see racing and car customization as not that important. They know when people think of GT they dont think of great, challenging AI or custom liveries or engine swaps. They think lots of cars, pretty graphics, and hot lapping, and GT Academy.

So I've finally broke. It saddens me a bit to say I no longer expect greatness from GT. The passion I could feel in the design of the original GT has since faded into nothingness. Im no longer interested in trying to gather ideas to improve the series, or in tracking development updates, or hoping it improves. I have the same expectations of it as a COD game. Just another title with a bigger number then the last. Im no longer disappointed, as I no longer am willing to hold expectations for the game. What it is is what it is. Really sad because for a while there I actually thought PD shared my opinion of what really makes a great racer everyone can enjoy. I couldnt be more wrong.

Its something like a divorce. For the longest time you thought she was perfect for you, but in time you discovered that you and her have irreconcilable differences. So I tried to make this marriage work. I waited, I begged, I fell for unkept promises, I tried my best to be a good partner by supporting and buying the games. But in the end I realized these differences are here to stay. Gran Turismo is not changing. But Ill hang around for now because Im a bum and theres nobody else I can afford on the other console or PC side of things. Hopefully GT is kind to me with #6 and doesnt make the time I have left with her miserable by beating me with a poor career mode etc. Or I could just stick it out, try to make the marriage work. Instead of focusing on GT's flaws, try to focus on its merits. Sounds like a good idea.

Not sure about the language barrier bit but everything else is spot on,especially the last paragraph.To be honest the only thing keeping me from walking away from GT is my team.

 

[Imari]

It is interesting that you are working on the assumption that the delays are down to mismanagement etc. there have been other reasons;

Let's check those out.

delays that have been down to scheduling,

Poor scheduling. Usually management does the scheduling, so I'd say mismanagement.

problems with Sony on Blu-ray printing,

What, like when they failed to deliver the gold copy on time? Oh wait, that's a scheduling thing again. Mismanagement.

delays based on decisions to include more content/features,

I know who makes those decisions! Miss Management! She's a stunning girl with many bright ideas.

decisions to delay based on technologies

Ah, when the management underestimated what was technically possible. A little management missed there I feel.

and also reasons down to Sony's own desire to have a GT game on a certain schedule.

You're right, this isn't mismanagement. It's completely selfish of Sony not to allow PD management to take more than 5 years to make a game. I can't imagine why they'd put their foot down on that one, unless they thought that PD management was incapable or something.