- 3,194
that also sounded arogent,... but that's just and opinion,. not fact, LOL
The Homosexuality Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Duke
- 9,138 comments
- 447,829 views
that also sounded arogent,... but that's just and opinion,. not fact, LOL
- 10,832
Nuh uh...
You said people should say they think things rather than saying something is. I am showing you how the distinction is moot.
Am has no context. It is a context.
"Untrue facts..."
Truth and facts have almost nothing to due with eachother.
Truth? That's funny. Let me know when you have "truth," I'd like to see it.
Facts? Meh... Look long enough and you'll find just the facts you want to use for any purpose.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
But I don't think that 'The Movement' is trying to make you think that homosexuality is OK for you. I believe they are trying to make you think that it's OK for them. Society's tolerance should be very broad, because individuals are always welcome to hold stricter standards for themselves if they choose to. But if society holds tolerance standards that are too strict, then individuals who don't fit that rigid definition lose their rights and liberties.
The jury is out on that one. I have a very good friend who is gay. He has repeatedly told me that he knew from a very young age - before he was old enough to know what sex was - that he was fundamentally different from the majority. He tried to be heterosexual. He tried to be bisexual. But he's just... gay.
To me it makes no difference if it is a choice or a condition, but I assume you're coming at it from the moralist angle, so I understand it would make a difference to you.
- 9,209
- DerAlta
True, the bible does say that we are granted free will and it does gift you commandments to live by.
Choice is the key word. If you choose to the things that you are not allowed to do, you will suffer the consequences.
Let's stick with the original question (paraphrased) "What are the causes and consequences of homosexuality?"
I'll reference back to Pako for a minute here.
You have no problem with what people do behind closed doors. Do you hold your wifes/girlfriends hand when walking in public? Everybody knows what a "public display of attention" is, and how your girl loves that you send her roses at work. Yet my wifes coworker can't do that because it might prove her love for her partner? This is where I find acceptance/tolerance interchange. I can kiss my wife good bye when I bring her lunch at work, but my wifes boss can't have his partner give him one when he drops him off at work?
Lets talk about the Civil Unions that are available in Vermont. My wifes boss and his partner have been sharing a life together for 17 years. My wifes coworker has been in her dedicated relationship for almost 9 years. How do I know? I've talked to them. Sometimes there are commitments that need to be solidified for governmental reasons. What Vermont has said is "We, as a government, accept the fact that two people can share posessions without respect to their genders."
I've agree with Pako on many other issues, but requiring people to hide who they are so I don't have to deal with it is not one. While I don't appreciate a couple blatantly flaunting their partnership (male/male, male/female, female/female) in public, I do think they have a right to show a modest bit of affection.
I don't run through the streets yelling "I'm straight and proud of it!", so they shouldn't get the right either. We have St. Patty's day parades, for people to yell "I'm Irish and Proud of it!", so why can't we have people yelling "I'm gay and proud of it!"?
Because there are groups of people out there who would react forcefully to that.
I'm not going to try to sway Pako towards changing his stance, but I'd like him to see with open eyes, what might be percieved with an unbiased opinion.
AO
Choice is the key word. If you choose to the things that you are not allowed to do, you will suffer the consequences.
Let's stick with the original question (paraphrased) "What are the causes and consequences of homosexuality?"
I'll reference back to Pako for a minute here.
You have no problem with what people do behind closed doors. Do you hold your wifes/girlfriends hand when walking in public? Everybody knows what a "public display of attention" is, and how your girl loves that you send her roses at work. Yet my wifes coworker can't do that because it might prove her love for her partner? This is where I find acceptance/tolerance interchange. I can kiss my wife good bye when I bring her lunch at work, but my wifes boss can't have his partner give him one when he drops him off at work?
Lets talk about the Civil Unions that are available in Vermont. My wifes boss and his partner have been sharing a life together for 17 years. My wifes coworker has been in her dedicated relationship for almost 9 years. How do I know? I've talked to them. Sometimes there are commitments that need to be solidified for governmental reasons. What Vermont has said is "We, as a government, accept the fact that two people can share posessions without respect to their genders."
I've agree with Pako on many other issues, but requiring people to hide who they are so I don't have to deal with it is not one. While I don't appreciate a couple blatantly flaunting their partnership (male/male, male/female, female/female) in public, I do think they have a right to show a modest bit of affection.
I don't run through the streets yelling "I'm straight and proud of it!", so they shouldn't get the right either. We have St. Patty's day parades, for people to yell "I'm Irish and Proud of it!", so why can't we have people yelling "I'm gay and proud of it!"?
Because there are groups of people out there who would react forcefully to that.
I'm not going to try to sway Pako towards changing his stance, but I'd like him to see with open eyes, what might be percieved with an unbiased opinion.
AO
- 3,194
my bad,. I gotta get back on this hella topic,............................................................ don't ask, don't tell.
Certain things are taboo and should stay that way,.... for now. (the things we discuss in open society)
Certain things are taboo and should stay that way,.... for now. (the things we discuss in open society)
- 10,832
You must live a world of oblivion if you believe you can cut the word am out of "I think therefore I am" under any circumstances. It's only the grounding statement of modern philosophy, the impetus of the Enlightenment, the foundation of Western Justice and Modern Freedom. But if it's more convenient for you to play with the wording to suit your point, feel free to do so. You'll just be wrong and ineffectual.
The words am and is are conjugations of the verb to be. In order for something to have any context whatsoever it must have being, then and only then can it be said that something is at all. It is the context all other contexts occurr within.
"Grass is green" is not truth. Grass can be several different colors. Perhaps if we were together you could point to some specific grass and say "that grass is green." And evn then you'd only have made a correct statement. Truth is much more than correctness, and when it shows itself in words, it does not do so in text books, dictionaries, or encyclopedias; it does so in poetry. And truth hardly ever shows itself in words anymore.
"Literalistic crap..."
I stand by my statement. Truth and fact have very little to do with eachother, but they can intersect. This is not one of those times.
Spare me. The second someone claims to have truth I know they are lying.
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,455
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
Der Alta,
I had a feeling that this might be brought up in regards to my previous post. A physical, public display of affection repolses me regardless of the couples. In movies, TV, Ads, and in public...., I would rather not see couples making out. In my wife's place of work, I would not feel comfortable to give her a kiss infront of her co-workers and clients. I would not feel comfortable making out with my wife outside of the mall. What I'm talking about is my comfort level. Public places is an arena where EVERYONE is on display, and as a society, we have concern to ourselves with others feelings (if your considerate). I've gotten used to seeing homosexuals hold hands and hang out in various areas. It was shocking at first, but we become accustomed to it.
I would not be offended if a lesbian brought her partner her lunch.
I hope I'm making sence here.
[new thought] My question is why was it so shocking the first time I saw homosexuals interact, and why do we need to de-senceatize ourselves to it? Maybe there's a reason why the first gut reaction is what it is.
I had a feeling that this might be brought up in regards to my previous post. A physical, public display of affection repolses me regardless of the couples. In movies, TV, Ads, and in public...., I would rather not see couples making out. In my wife's place of work, I would not feel comfortable to give her a kiss infront of her co-workers and clients. I would not feel comfortable making out with my wife outside of the mall. What I'm talking about is my comfort level. Public places is an arena where EVERYONE is on display, and as a society, we have concern to ourselves with others feelings (if your considerate). I've gotten used to seeing homosexuals hold hands and hang out in various areas. It was shocking at first, but we become accustomed to it.
I would not be offended if a lesbian brought her partner her lunch.
I hope I'm making sence here.
[new thought] My question is why was it so shocking the first time I saw homosexuals interact, and why do we need to de-senceatize ourselves to it? Maybe there's a reason why the first gut reaction is what it is.
- 9,209
- DerAlta
Pako:
Great clarification. I too get offended/repulsed when I walk into the mall and there is a group of teenagers hanging all over each other. A couple slobbering on each other is reserved for behind closed doors.
As for de-sensitizing, i harbor a guess that if a person were raised with the knowledge that there are homosexual people in the world, and they do relate to each other the same way heterosexual people do, there wouldn't be the sensitivity to it. There would instead be acknowledment that those two people care about each other enough to show it in public with modest gestures. That gut reaction is based on preconceived notions learned from a biased teacher.
You made perfect sense. So Linda brings Nancy lunch, and Dave bringing Mike lunch is fine. Mike and Dave holding hands is acceptable.
That synopsis works for me and so I think we've found some common ground. But a kiss in parting is not acceptable when exchanged by someone of the same sex, even though tehy've been in a committed relationship longer than most that you've known? Ahhh... the lovely grey area. Even if they haven't been in a relationship for extended periods of time, if I have the right to give my wife a kiss, they get that right as well. (not kiss my wife, but rather thier partner). So we try as a society to enforce acceptable rules for public display. Who teaches those rules? Why, the parents of the world.
AO
Great clarification. I too get offended/repulsed when I walk into the mall and there is a group of teenagers hanging all over each other. A couple slobbering on each other is reserved for behind closed doors.
As for de-sensitizing, i harbor a guess that if a person were raised with the knowledge that there are homosexual people in the world, and they do relate to each other the same way heterosexual people do, there wouldn't be the sensitivity to it. There would instead be acknowledment that those two people care about each other enough to show it in public with modest gestures. That gut reaction is based on preconceived notions learned from a biased teacher.
You made perfect sense. So Linda brings Nancy lunch, and Dave bringing Mike lunch is fine. Mike and Dave holding hands is acceptable.
That synopsis works for me and so I think we've found some common ground. But a kiss in parting is not acceptable when exchanged by someone of the same sex, even though tehy've been in a committed relationship longer than most that you've known? Ahhh... the lovely grey area. Even if they haven't been in a relationship for extended periods of time, if I have the right to give my wife a kiss, they get that right as well. (not kiss my wife, but rather thier partner). So we try as a society to enforce acceptable rules for public display. Who teaches those rules? Why, the parents of the world.
AO
- 10,832
I have to echo the modesty preference expressed in the last few posts. I think younger people live in some kind of bubble at certain moments and have no idea they are being watched with disdain. So when I see a teen couple making out and feeling eachother up at the mall I ignore it, knowing that they will have swapped partners in a week anyway. I don't like it, but I don't like a lot of things. Adults, however, engaging in the same behavior in public is grounds for a comment. And I have done that. My sister has a couple friends who are always all over eachother. They even had sex in her bathroom with a house full of people. To me that is animal, tasteless, trashy, and flat out disrespectful. People should show a little restraint and self control for crissakes.
I am even more adamant about this than most. I do not even like my wife visiting my work. These people are not my friends and they need not know anything more than what I let on, and that is limited, except for one guy who I have become friends with over time. Some people I work with parade their wives and kids around like some wierd spectacle. I don't like it.
Some people feel the need to flaunt it, to show off their sex. I doubt it's any more prevalent among gays than it is among non-gays, though. It just exhibits insecurity... almost as if they constantly need to leave their mark lest someone steal their beloved. And if you , like me, were raised not knowing that there is a lot of gay people out there, you'll have your offended good taste given the extra shock of seeing the perceived perversion of homosexuality.
Maybe we could "kick it up a notch" by introducing the notion of gay couples adopting?
I am even more adamant about this than most. I do not even like my wife visiting my work. These people are not my friends and they need not know anything more than what I let on, and that is limited, except for one guy who I have become friends with over time. Some people I work with parade their wives and kids around like some wierd spectacle. I don't like it.
Some people feel the need to flaunt it, to show off their sex. I doubt it's any more prevalent among gays than it is among non-gays, though. It just exhibits insecurity... almost as if they constantly need to leave their mark lest someone steal their beloved. And if you , like me, were raised not knowing that there is a lot of gay people out there, you'll have your offended good taste given the extra shock of seeing the perceived perversion of homosexuality.
Maybe we could "kick it up a notch" by introducing the notion of gay couples adopting?
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Exactly. It is not and has never been shocking to me to see homosexual couples, or mixed-race (or both) couples. If they look happy to be together is my only criteria for their acceptability as a couple.
AO, you're providing an excellent example here. You can disapprove of homosexuality on a personal basis, while approving tolerance of it for others. That should be an easy thing to do but for some reason it's not for the majority of people. Standing ovation to you.
No business of anyone's except those involved. I personally think there are particular types of people who are probably genetically more inclined to be homosexual, given the appropriate environmental factors - I don't think it's a choice per se, and I've seen a number of people 'fight it' and have deeply unhappy heterosexual relationships which have ultimately failed.
I think everyone's entitled to be happy (subject to not adversely affecting others - moral outrage not included)in this life, and if they're happy in that lifestyle, good for them.
Geez, they're just people.
I think everyone's entitled to be happy (subject to not adversely affecting others - moral outrage not included)in this life, and if they're happy in that lifestyle, good for them.
Geez, they're just people.
- 19,699
- Alabamamania
I voted: "nobody's business but the people involved."
Without a whole lot of explaining; it's two less guys that are going to hit on my lady, and two less women I probably wasn't interested in sleeping with anyway. But I've got nothing against gay people...I don't think a gay person's ever called me name before, for example.
Wht bugs me are the 12-year-old users here who still say ridiculous things like...."using NOS is so gay"..."only fags drive a ____". Those comments show that a lot of homophobia still exists.
I think it's also absurd that gay people can't legally marry one another.
Without a whole lot of explaining; it's two less guys that are going to hit on my lady, and two less women I probably wasn't interested in sleeping with anyway. But I've got nothing against gay people...I don't think a gay person's ever called me name before, for example.
Wht bugs me are the 12-year-old users here who still say ridiculous things like...."using NOS is so gay"..."only fags drive a ____". Those comments show that a lot of homophobia still exists.
I think it's also absurd that gay people can't legally marry one another.
- 135
And how do you feel about IVF? The virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus without being slipped any salami from Joseph if I'm not mistaken.
As for homosexuals, I have no problems with them as long as they stick to their own kind.
My wife is a manager/stylist at a very popular upper class salon. For some reason salons attract gay men. I have gotten to know more than a few of my wifes gay co-workers. They are nice enough and I don't have a problem talking to them. When I have a problem is when we go to her company get togethers they always seem to be the only ones showing any type of public affection. It seems like they are either trying to shock everyone or trying to make some kind of statement(I'm gay! accept it!") or something.
Frankly if they want us to accept it then act like hetrosexual people and keep it private. I don't need to see it. I wonder how they would react if my wife and I went into a gay club and started acting like that on the dance floor?
One other thing. Why do some feel the need to talk the way they do? You know what I mean? The flamming gay talk with the sissy gestures. Too weird.
Frankly if they want us to accept it then act like hetrosexual people and keep it private. I don't need to see it. I wonder how they would react if my wife and I went into a gay club and started acting like that on the dance floor?
One other thing. Why do some feel the need to talk the way they do? You know what I mean? The flamming gay talk with the sissy gestures. Too weird.
- 6,977
- old-guy64
I deliberately have not weighed in on this issue.
My opinion doesn't count. People are gonna do what they're gonna do.
I WILL say this. PDA whether among heterosexuals or homosexual is much like excuses are like asses. Everyone has one, but no one really needs to see it or hear it.
We have homes, hotels, tinted windows, etc. Overt "Sexual commerce" is best transacted behind those barriers.
Happy couples are happy couples.
I personally do not "condone" homosexuality. I do have friends that are homosexual and it is my practice to let my views be known, ONCE. I then do my best to be a good friend.
One of the biggest, traps some of us fall into as "God-fearin', bible-readin', Christians" is to "Shoot our wounded". We comdemn before we do anything else.
Christ, loved, helped, and nurtured all who came to him. Maybe, in the words of the Bible we are so quick to beat others to death with, we should just "Go and do likewise".
My opinion doesn't count. People are gonna do what they're gonna do.
I WILL say this. PDA whether among heterosexuals or homosexual is much like excuses are like asses. Everyone has one, but no one really needs to see it or hear it.
We have homes, hotels, tinted windows, etc. Overt "Sexual commerce" is best transacted behind those barriers.
Happy couples are happy couples.
I personally do not "condone" homosexuality. I do have friends that are homosexual and it is my practice to let my views be known, ONCE. I then do my best to be a good friend.
One of the biggest, traps some of us fall into as "God-fearin', bible-readin', Christians" is to "Shoot our wounded". We comdemn before we do anything else.
Christ, loved, helped, and nurtured all who came to him. Maybe, in the words of the Bible we are so quick to beat others to death with, we should just "Go and do likewise".
- 1,166
- Oregon
Like others have already said, I think that people can do what they want, where they want (unless there is a rule in that area), and whatever they want aslong as it doesn't harm anyone else. The only exceptions are when a couple start making out and are 2 steps away from sex at the mall and other things like that.
OA
OA
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