The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[niky]

You really think putting someone in jail for refusing to do their job is an appropriate consequence in this case?

For not doing their job, definitely no.

For defying a court order handed down by no less than the SCOTUS, yes.

 

[BobK]

You really think putting someone in jail for refusing to do their job is an appropriate consequence in this case?

For not doing their job, definitely no.

For defying a court order handed down by no less than the SCOTUS, yes.

Thank you, @niky!

With or without jail terms. she should certainly be removed from her job. Her duty is to issue marriage licenses. She has refused to issue any licenses at all. She is willfully refusing to do what she was elected to do and therefore shouldn't hold the office.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thank you, @niky!

With or without jail terms. she should certainly be removed from her job. Her duty is to issue marriage licenses. She has refused to issue any licenses at all. She is willfully refusing to do what she was elected to do and therefore shouldn't hold the office.

I believe the proper approach would be impeachment or recall or some such bureaucratic procedure. Jail is a stupid overreaction IMO.

 

[FoolKiller]

You really think putting someone in jail for refusing to do their job is an appropriate consequence in this case?

I believe the proper approach would be impeachment or recall or some such bureaucratic procedure. Jail is a stupid overreaction IMO.

It should be noted that she was not jailed for failure to do her duty as an elected official (which can be up to a year in jail in Kentucky), but rather for contempt of court after she was given a very slight slap on the wrist.

The same thing would happen if you failed to listen to a judge in a traffic court case.


That said, I am growing very tired of this story. She got our attention, we gave her what she wanted, and she will play the victim card and become an election football.


The bigger issue I have is that Rowan County deserves better than this. Next week I have a meeting to look for ways to help the 60 families without a home, or most of any of their property, after floods in July. They need help, real, legitimate help and nobody noticed the place existed until one woman failed to do her job. My role in that meeting will be trying to help these people get their prescription medicines.

Instead of the world seeing this disaster area in Rowan County and offering help, they see Rowan County as a disaster of humanity. Want to know why the people in Rowan County didn't step up more in regards to this woman? They've been busy trying to get food and shelter from FEMA.

/rant

 

[Swift]

Total side point. Why does this woman get put in jail and the cities and police deptartments that are sanctuaries for illegals get a total pass?

Just a thought as it seems the law is not at all being evenly applied.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Total side point. Why does this woman get put in jail and the cities and police deptartments that are sanctuaries for illegals get a total pass?

Just a thought as it seems the law is not at all being evenly applied.

I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with this situation.

 

[huskeR32]

Total side point. Why does this woman get put in jail and the cities and police deptartments that are sanctuaries for illegals get a total pass?

Just a thought as it seems the law is not at all being evenly applied.

Did I miss where a mayor/police chief/whatever of one of those cities defied a direct order from a judge? An order that was confirmed by SCOTUS, no less?

If not, then I've gotta go with

I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with this situation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with this situation.

I guess you guys missed the whole "total side point" deal?

 

[Swift]

I guess you guys missed the whole "total side point" deal?

Exactly. Just a point about how the law is applied when it fits a specific agenda.

And yes, a federal judge has told the Obama administration to stop its amenesty plans and they are STILL doing it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I guess you guys missed the whole "total side point" deal?

Saw it, still makes no sense.

 

[huskeR32]

I guess you guys missed the whole "total side point" deal?

I didn't miss it at all. However, I did notice that right after the words "total side point," he said this:

Why does this woman get put in jail

Which is a clear indication he was trying to connect the two scenarios.

And even if he didn't make a connection between the two, does labeling it as a "side point" somehow exempt the statement from any kind of response? If so, what's the point of saying it in the first place?

And yes, a federal judge has told the Obama administration to stop its amenesty plans and they are STILL doing it.

Are you referring to the injunction issued in Texas v. United States? If so, then you're being a little misleading here. Yes, there were around 2,000 work permits erroneously issued in violation of the injunction, several months ago, but that has since been halted. To claim they are "STILL doing it" is wrong.

 

[Swift]

I didn't miss it at all. However, I did notice that right after the words "total side point," he said this:



Which is a clear indication he was trying to connect the two scenarios.

And even if he didn't make a connection between the two, does labeling it as a "side point" somehow exempt the statement from any kind of response? If so, what's the point of saying it in the first place?



Are you referring to the injunction issued in Texas v. United States? If so, then you're being a little misleading here. Yes, there were around 2,000 work permits erroneously issued in violation of the injunction, several months ago, but that has since been halted. To claim they are "STILL doing it" is wrong.

Is there anyone in jail for it?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Is there anyone in jail for it?

Over 22 outstanding permits? I doubt it.

 

[Swift]

Over 22 outstanding permits? I doubt it.

Thanks. Just checking. Please continue.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Thanks. Just checking. Please continue.

My figures were wrong, it was actually 0 outstanding permits - the remaining 22 were invalidated on the system rather then being physically reclaimed.

Had the contempt hearing gone ahead (as it did for the Kentucky Fried Bigot) then jail would have been a potential punishment and, after the fact, we'd have been able to have the discussion. In the case of KFB she continually refused to discharge her nominated duties and, in the contempt hearing, restated that it was her intention to continue so. Jeh Johnson et. al. corrected the situation before any contempt was heard.

 

[Danny]

In a comical and frankly baffling turn of events, the Westboro Baptist Church have been protesting against Kim Davis.

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Westboro Baptist — the Kansas church known for its virulently anti-gay agenda — has waded into the controversy over the Kentucky court clerk who refuses to issue same-sex marriage licenses in defiance of court orders.

But it is taking aim at Kim Davis, who has gone to jail for refusing to allow gay people to marry on the basis that it would violate her Christian beliefs.

Westboro, or WBC, is notorious and widely scorned for picketing funerals for service members of victims and mass shootings to draw attention to its "God Hates Fags" argument that God is punishing America for accommodating homosexuality.

Referring to Jeremiah 3:20 — the King James version of which reads, "Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD" — WBC undertook a P.R. campaign over the weekend, attacking the thrice-divorced (and legally remarried) Kim Davis in a string of Tweets and YouTube videos as an "oath breaker" and a "lawbreaker" — meaning, of course, God's law.

"Get this straight: you can NOT repent of a sin you actively live. Kim must leave that man who's not her husband," the organization said on Twitter. Attorneys for Davis, who was jailed Thursday, on Sunday filed filed an appeal, The Associated Press reported.

As if to clarify how it could so viciously attack someone who's fighting for its own principles, the group said, "Proud adulterers who divorce/remarry and refuse to call it a sin are no more a WBC member than a proud fag."

It's like Freddie Vs Jason.

Edit: Kim is out of jail now too.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Speaking of Kim Davis, she has been let out of jail on the condition that she not interfere with her employees giving out marriage licenses.

 

[BobK]

Has anyone else noticed that Kim Davis is now widely reported as having been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples? This is not the whole truth; she has been refusing to issue marriage licenses to any couples whatsoever, gay or straight. She wasn't doing the job she was elected to do, a judge ordered to do her job, she refused, and (rightly) ended up in jail.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Total side point. Why does this woman get put in jail and the cities and police deptartments that are sanctuaries for illegals get a total pass?

Just a thought as it seems the law is not at all being evenly applied.

Have they been successfully held in contempt?

 

[Dan]

Has anyone else noticed that Kim Davis is now widely reported as having been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples? This is not the whole truth; she has been refusing to issue marriage licenses to any couples whatsoever, gay or straight. She wasn't doing the job she was elected to do, a judge ordered to do her job, she refused, and (rightly) ended up in jail.

We knew this from the start.

 

[LeMansAid]

We knew this from the start.

I took it as pointing out that the whole truth is not necessarily being reported, rather than pointing out what the whole truth is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Has anyone else noticed that Kim Davis is now widely reported as having been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples? This is not the whole truth; she has been refusing to issue marriage licenses to any couples whatsoever, gay or straight. She wasn't doing the job she was elected to do, a judge ordered to do her job, she refused, and (rightly) ended up in jail.

I though it was even more nuanced than that; if her deputies issue a marriage license then Davis's name/position is on the certificate. She wouldn't (according to her lawyer) allow that to happen for same-sex marriage certificates. One of the things she asked the court was for her name to be removed from those which, as I understand it, is against the Kentucky rules.

That brings another interesting point; certificates have been issued without her name and her legal team now hold that those certificates are illegal. The rule requiring her name can't be removed until January unless the state pay "hundreds of thousands of dollars" for an early convetion. Davis's lawyers argue that the certificates can in fact be issued in the name of "The Commonwealth of Kentucky".

They're also being sued by Survivor for using "Eye of the Tiger" at her post-release press conference. Happy days.

 

[Swift]

Have they been successfully held in contempt?

As I can find. No. However, Obama made several recess appointments that were found unconstitutional by a federal judge as well as for information from the DOJ in regards to fast and furious.

But I'll stop dealing this thread now.

 

[Joey D]

Forgive the source of the news, I don't actually know where one finds actual news anymore.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...ys-kim-davis-security-detail?cid=sm_fb_maddow

Supposedly a Christian militia has vowed to intervene with force if Kim Davis is arrested again. I think for all intents and purposes this makes them domestic terrorists since they are threatening to do harm to US law enforcement (which I believe are US Marshall's). I agree they should have the right to bear arms, organize a militia, and protest, but I don't believe for a second they should have the right to use force

To me, Kim Davis is a Grade A :censored:hole. If you don't follow the law, whether you agree with it or not, and you violate court orders you will have to face the consequences. Also her little stunt has cost taxpayers how much money? I'm guessing it's more than I even want to know.

Good Christians don't do this kind of crap and it's people like Davis and the Oath Keeper the give average, everyday Christians a bad name.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm having a lot of trouble maintaining my political/religious neutrality on Facebook. Too many people from my hometown going out of their way to defend Kim Davis. I have a response to everything they say, but I swore to myself that if I used Facebook that I wouldn't get into that stuff.

 

[Dennisch]

but I swore to myself that if I used Facebook that I wouldn't get into that stuff.

Stay strong and keep it that way. Discussions on Facebook are on the same level as the YouTube comments. Not worth the hassle.

Also.

This has been placed in Kim Davis' hometown.

 

[Johnnypenso]

To me, Kim Davis is a Grade A :censored:hole. If you don't follow the law, whether you agree with it or not, and you violate court orders you will have to face the consequences. Also her little stunt has cost taxpayers how much money? I'm guessing it's more than I even want to know.

Good Christians don't do this kind of crap and it's people like Davis and the Oath Keeper the give average, everyday Christians a bad name.

If everyone followed the law and didn't listen to their conscience, there wouldn't be a United States of America. Do your founding fathers also fit into this category? Does Muhammad Ali the draft dodger? Is Nelson Mandela in there too? Would you have told Rosa Parks to get to the back of the bus?

This is exactly what good Christians do and it's the kind of behaviour that makes America great, even if she's wrong.

 

[Carbonox]

A threat of violence is making the country great? Fascinating...

 

[Johnnypenso]

A threat of violence is making the country great? Fascinating...

I was talking about Kim Davis, not the militia.

 

[DK]

Kim Davis is not Rosa Parks, she's the bus driver who refuses to drive off until Rosa gets to the back of the bus or gives up her seat for a white person.