The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

MatskiMonk
So, having now visited the 24 hours of Le Mans once, I have to say that I wasn't left too amazed by it... I'll leave the long rants out because I appreciate that much of it is only personally gripes, and let's face it... Not all motorsport can be like attending the BTCC...

But, one thing that did occur to me as a reasonable topic for discussion: Including the Bugatti circuit in the 24 hour circuit.

The main reason for suggesting this is to offer a reasonable opportunity for spectators to see some on track action. With the size of the crowd the turns up, the viewing areas are woeful, with a large amount of spectator seats being those that overlook the pit straight, and much of the existing circuit doesn't allow spectating (down the mulsanne for instance). Add in the long distances between parts of the circuit and the congestion that comes with a quarter of a million people trying to line a couple of miles of track, plus the big chunks of real estate taken up with VIP/hospitality.. And it's not a great experience.

Utilising the Bugatti circuit offers more of a stadium experience for fans as well as possible generating a little more on track excitement...

I appreciate it's not that easy to do, but as a circuit and as a race I think it's overrated, and working the Bugatti circuit in to the mix would go a long way to making the experience better.
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MatskiMonk
Oulton is the busiest race on the BTCC Calender with circa 55,000 people, I'd say the crowds felt similar, but the crucial differences being that at Oulton, even in the busier areas, you can stretch out and take a lay down on the lush grassy banking areas, or find plenty of shade in the wooded areas, and at the busier areas you can see multi-parts of the track... at Le Mans you really don't see much other than the stretch that's in front of you, and you're jostling with the other 165,000 people that bought a non-grandstand allocated ticket. The other benefit of Oulton, and most circuits, is that you don't necessarily have to walk miles to get anywhere if you do want to change your position - I was properly exhausted by the time I walked from the campsite to Dunlop in the heat carrying my camera bag and backpack, during most of which, you see bugger all... walk around the edge of most conventional tracks, and you can at least see what's going on. The €10 RLM headset really saved the race for me, I gave up, and found somewhere away from the trackside to sit and listen to the race (I could have saved myself several hundred pounds and done that at home!)

Fences are a real issue for me too however, as I said when @Furinkazen posed the question to me at Oulton park, whilst I myself am totally comfortable with the level of safety provided by a bit of armco and some grass banking, I totally understand that a family enjoying a sunny day out at one of the UK's finest circuits needs protecting from cars that may be leaving the track in an unintended, uncontrolled fashion.. so I'll forgive most circuits for it, and with the speed of the cars at Le Mans it's understandable... though a big put-off for me as an amateur snapper.

I can't help but draw comparisons to the Nürburgring 24. Both are races I visited for the first time this year. In almost every respect the N24 beats LM24 hands down and I really feel that a good portion of the N24's accessibility came from it using the GP track also, but even when straying away from the relative safety of the GP track the experience was still worthwhile, that's not something I can say about Le Mans - just IMHO of course. So, getting back to my original point, altering the circuit to use more of the Bugatti circuit, to open up more, and better viewing points, would help to alleviate some of the issues with the rest of the circuit... as far as changing the hallowed tarmac goes, the circuit people know now is the way it is because it changed from what it was 80-90 years ago... all tracks evolve.
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Holdenhsvgtsr
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Which point did I miss? My point is, as a paying spectator the event is not one I'll do again, nor one I'd recommend. I appreciate that that fact amounts to nothing as far as the organisers are concerned, but it does seem a little crazy to have something there which would help rectify the situation and only use it to give the marshals somewhere to park.. and I'll admit that it's not the most practical solution given the space constraints, but that's part of the reason I put the subject up for discussion.
 
MatskiMonk - Regarding your statement on fences at Le Mans and Nurburgring. I'm not sure if you are aware, but a spectator was fatally injured at a Nurburgring endurance race earlier this year. I don't know if more fencing would have made a difference in that case.

At any rate, I've been reading your statements with interest, as I would like to attend a Le Mans at some point (and see the Nurburgring and maybe even Spa). So thanks for impressions. In any case, I imagine over a quarter million people in a concentrated area, many of which will sleep deprived, would take a lot of effort just to keep everything from breaking down into chaos.
 
Sertsa
I don't know if more fencing would have made a difference in that case.
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More fencing doesn't do a thing if you deliberately circumvent it. It doesn't happen at other tracks at least, and hopefully it never happens again.
 
Sertsa
MatskiMonk - Regarding your statement on fences at Le Mans and Nurburgring. I'm not sure if you are aware, but a spectator was fatally injured at a Nurburgring endurance race earlier this year. I don't know if more fencing would have made a difference in that case.
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Yep, infact I think I stood at Flugplatz and posted a picture from there in the N24 thread on GTP exclaiming how much of a joke I thought it was.

Sertsa
At any rate, I've been reading your statements with interest, as I would like to attend a Le Mans at some point (and see the Nurburgring and maybe even Spa). So thanks for impressions. In any case, I imagine over a quarter million people in a concentrated area, many of which will sleep deprived, would take a lot of effort just to keep everything from breaking down into chaos.
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Yep.. I'm doing Spa 24 this year too, so I'll be able to compare myself in a few weeks. As for Le Mans, if it's something you wanted to do, I wouldn't talk you out of it, I'm glad I did it, I just won't do it again, I wouldn't suggest it to anyone, and I don't think it's worth the money. Plenty of people go and have a great time, I've just got very little patience for poor circuits it seems. IF I were to do it again my plan would be to throw a lot more money at it -- when you line up at passport control at Calais and you're next to two Porsche 918's, you realise that money does equal happiness... at least as far as going to Le Mans is concerned.
 
Brutaka
My idea of the Nissan LMP1:
Based off of the GTR as in it has many cosmetic and technical similarities such as a FWD layout and possibly using a near-production engine.
It is also more likely that if this is based off of the GTR, it will be the R36 and not the R35, possibly having a double reveal of both cars at the same time 💡
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Resurrects a post from 2014...

Little did Brutaka know that his typo was actually correct...
 
I wouldnt want to see Circuit de la Sarthe changed at all unless they were getting rid of the chicanes on the Mulsanne. Theres plenty of poor circuits with good vantage points in the spirtscar calendar.
 
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Not exactly a fan of where the FIA want to take this direction with the WEC... It's just going to turn into the new F1 with overly-posh and glitzy designs...
 
Swagger897
Not exactly a fan of where the FIA want to take this direction with the WEC... It's just going to turn into the new F1 with overly-posh and glitzy designs...
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That's a strange take what's overly posh and glitzy about F1? If it was up to the teams they'd actually look that way which was circa 2010/2011
 
I'm personally looking forward to the new "Hyper car" regulations. Hopefully it'll bring manufacturers back to the top class of the series. I've found LMP1 really lacking these past couple of seasons, with Toyota being the only major manufacturer competing in it.
 
I've been curious about how quiet almost all of the podcasts have been about the HyperCar regs. They featured prominently for several months a while back, and now the odd calm has settled, and no one seems to have much in the way of answers.

Personally I don't care where they go, but they need to go somewhere. The top class of LeMans has been..awful lately, and the ACO isn't making much money off it either. I think when the new regulations launch it's going to be painful watching it grow/evolve into something useful.
 
wowbaggerBR
This gave some Lola/Aston Martin B09 feelings about the new Aston effort: it will look cool and sound great, but probably nothing else.
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Wait what? So you don't think it will probably be one of the bigger if not biggest threats in the series? The car in part is off a platform designed by a guy that has designed some of the most successful race cars, how will it seemingly look cool and sound great but nothing else?
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Wait what? So you don't think it will probably be one of the bigger if not biggest threats in the series? The car in part is off a platform designed by a guy that has designed some of the most successful race cars, how will it seemingly look cool and sound great but nothing else?
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"Wait, what? An opinion!"

I don't know, opinions and such? Didn't we spend the last few years seeing where not having a hybrid powerplant leaves hopeful guys trying to beat the ones who got them?
 
wowbaggerBR
"Wait, what? An opinion!"

I don't know, opinions and such? Didn't we spend the last few years seeing where not having a hybrid powerplant leaves hopeful guys trying to beat the ones who got them?
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First you have a view point based on history, "factual" racing information/news, and so forth. It's not simply "my opinion" when you're basing a view point of real info. If you like chocolate ice cream more than vanilla on the other hand, sure complete opinion.

Now as for the last few years, there is a massive difference between an established manufacture, with manufacture money, tools and all in house work. While also playing the system a bit when it came to BoP. Not only that but then you have the teams they faced being efforts that are taking in third party chassis and engines, making them work on smaller budgets with less development tools and drivers that aren't nearly as seasoned at times or some that are and others that aren't.

Now you have a team that is playing in the new rules, where everything is a fresh restart, the BoP can't be gamed, and it's a factory effort using actual endurance drivers, and a platform that is very strong. Along with also using different methods to achieve performance that hybrids can't. Also F1 proved at one time cars with a limited hybrid output against those without it can fight on equal ground.
 
It looks like....a production car? I know that's kind of the point of the new class, but I was expecting more prominent wings and diffusers and canards and the like.

On another note, apparently the GT2 category will be returning next year (at least in North America) but I cannot find any info about this announcement. Only thing that I'm finding is the the Audi R8 LMS GT2 that was shown off earlier this year was built for the category.
 
NotThePrez
It looks like....a production car? I know that's kind of the point of the new class, but I was expecting more prominent wings and diffusers and canards and the like.

On another note, apparently the GT2 category will be returning next year (at least in North America) but I cannot find any info about this announcement. Only thing that I'm finding is the the Audi R8 LMS GT2 that was shown off earlier this year was built for the category.
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For me it's the proportions that make it seem a little too "roadish" for lack of a better description. I feel like the larger cockpit dome is the main culprit. Good-looking car any way. Definitely makes me think of GT1 before 1998.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
First you have a view point based on history, "factual" racing information/news, and so forth. It's not simply "my opinion" when you're basing a view point of real info. If you like chocolate ice cream more than vanilla on the other hand, sure complete opinion.

Now as for the last few years, there is a massive difference between an established manufacture, with manufacture money, tools and all in house work. While also playing the system a bit when it came to BoP. Not only that but then you have the teams they faced being efforts that are taking in third party chassis and engines, making them work on smaller budgets with less development tools and drivers that aren't nearly as seasoned at times or some that are and others that aren't.

Now you have a team that is playing in the new rules, where everything is a fresh restart, the BoP can't be gamed, and it's a factory effort using actual endurance drivers, and a platform that is very strong. Along with also using different methods to achieve performance that hybrids can't. Also F1 proved at one time cars with a limited hybrid output against those without it can fight on equal ground.
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Told ya.
 

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